Grenbot Posted May 29, 2020 Report Share Posted May 29, 2020 6 hours ago, R J said: Oi @Grenbot, I've got a hard one for you: All the Shardworlds are getting destroyed, you can save only one, which one would it be? This was moved from an Intro Post Oh man, this is both really brutally difficult and deceptively simple. My heart of hearts cries out “No! I will save ALL of them!” But then my mathematician brain takes over and does the following: **DEFINITELY SPOILERY** Suppose all the Shardworlds ARE getting destroyed, then we can assume their pasts are in tact and everything that has been written by Brandon is still as is. I would easily let Sel crash and burn, we know that Elantrians can make it out. Nalthis, same thing. The only two that I would feel compelled to REALLY save are Scadrial and Roshar. Alas, it would have to be Scadrial... and here’s why: Ok so if the Shardworlds are getting destroyed, that includes Braize where as of OB Odium currently resides, so let it burn to the ground. (On the other hand, Odiums existence has been an engine of change for the Cosmere... but that’s another discussion!) Honor has already been splintered and that leaves only Cultivation, really. The world would be destroyed AFTER RoW since it has already been written, so there’s still more to read there and I assume there will be enough radiants to get a number of humans/parshendi/etc into Shadesmar and have them all start walking toward the Expanse of Vapors. At that point, most beings would reside either in Shadesmar itself or on Scadrial. For the moment... We know that Allomancy will be a jumping off point for space travel, so if Scadrial is saved there are two prime benefits: 1) Space travel means all those other world inhabitants could eventually move off-world if desired and the Cosmere could be repopulated 2) Harmony. (I always saw Saru from Discovery when I read Sazeds parts... I cant be the only one, right? I think it was just how cautious he was and everything...) Anyway, Harmony! Once Harmony gets a handle on holding Pres/Ruin he will be able to crush Odium. It’s confirmed that he holds more power (he just cant really use it all that well yet). So, if Scadrial is the last surviving Shardworld then Harmony is the last surviving shard and we will get to see an ABSOLUTELY EPIC BATTLE between Odium and Harmony which I would be hundreds of dollars to see (literally cause I plan on buying every single book until then...) So, long story short: save Scadrial and let the rest burn. What would you save and why??? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Honorless Posted May 29, 2020 Report Share Posted May 29, 2020 (edited) Process of elimination Braize can go Ashyn & First of the Sun can go (relatively small population). Yolen too probably. Nalthis can go too. I really don't like that colourful necromantic place anyway Taldain is already doomed in my mind. Should also have relatively smaller population That leaves the big three: Scadrial, Sel & Roshar. Scadrial has a relatively smaller population than the other two in both Final Empire era & Post Catacendre era. But they've already survived two catastrophic events, I'll feel so bad. Roshar is beautiful. The number of catastrophic events they've had to survive is too much. I'll feel beyond bad if don't save this one. Sel probably has the highest population being the biggest planet with largest inhabited landmasses. They don't have a Shard to save any of them either, though maybe the Elantrians can save some of them. From a purely utilitarian standpoint, I should save Sel. But my heart belongs to the other two. And among those two, Roshar reigns supreme. Also how would the Heralds feel? After all that they've been through for that world, especially Taln I choose to save Roshar Edited May 30, 2020 by R J 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
datalaughing Posted May 29, 2020 Report Share Posted May 29, 2020 (edited) I think I have to go Scadrial. Braize can pound sand. I think we can all agree on that much. Taldain is frankly kind of a horribly unpleasant place. Half the planet is a burning desert (ish). And the half that isn't is apparently quite oppressive. I'll agree with RJ that there's something inherently off-putting about Nalthis and all the dead people hanging around as Lifeless or Returned or what-have-you. Roshar is definitely the other contender. The thing about Roshar is, it just isn't a great place to live, and the people aren't the best neighbors. Roshar is tormented by what are essentially regularly recurring hurricanes that affect almost ever place on the continent. They're mostly learned to live with it, but geeze. Not only that, but the Alethi culture, which dominates fully half of the landmass (if you include areas like Jah Keved, which is very similar in culture and the Frostlands, which kind of fall under Alethkar's sphere of influence since Karbranth and New Natanan are too small or uninterested in the area to try and exert control), is extraordinarily warlike. Waging war is central to the way they live their lives, and if they're not fighting outsiders, they're fighting each other. If it's going to be more or less the last bastion of intelligent life in the Cosmere (give or take a couple places), that's not where I'd want to live or who I'd want to live there with. Maybe neither society on Scadrial, the one in the south or Elendel, is perfect, and maybe the total population isn't as big as the others. But at least with Scadrial you're dealing with, as far as we know, two societies who may actually be able to get along. Not a dozen or more different competing, warring nations like on Sel or Roshar. I think it's the best option if you're looking for a foundation to build a lasting, harmonious society. Not only that, but something about Scadrial has them advancing technologically faster than anyone else. I like that scientific drive. Edited May 29, 2020 by datalaughing 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grenbot Posted May 29, 2020 Author Report Share Posted May 29, 2020 That’s two for Scadrial! I 100% agree with your take on Roshar. I wouldn’t WANT to see them go, but I mean come on. They humans already ruined one planet and then started war on the second? Get your act together, people! Also really on board with the scientific drive. I loved Jasnah’s logic and Navani’s engineering mindset but with things like soulcasting there’s just way less of a drive to discover things in the same way. I think they could do AMAZING things blending Surges and Science but they need to put the weapons down for a second first... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PiedPiper Posted May 29, 2020 Report Share Posted May 29, 2020 I feel compelled to argue for Nalthis, just because nobody else seems to want to. Here we go (flexes typing fingers): Nalthis is the only known Shardworld where every single person has direct access to Investiture and where that investiture is easily transferable, making it a very accessible source of magic in the Cosmere. If Nightblood was created there, just imagine what kind of other amazing/terrible things they could come up with. Speaking of Nightblood: Nalthis is also the home world of the Five Scholars, and who knows what kind of important information they've discovered and might have left behind there? (And not just about Awakening, either. These people are worldhoppers -- they could know tons about deep Cosmere lore!) Finally, I know necromancy creeps a lot of people out, but they're an extremely efficient army and could be needed in future grand Cosmere battles. And, considering there are several different types of Lifeless, so it would take several discrete disastrous occurrences to actually wipe out your army. Also, think of the advantages of having an entire army with no preservation instinct; they'd be willing to do so many more things than a live army would, seeing as there's nothing more that can happen to them. And yes, many of the Returned are spoiled brats, but when it comes down to it, there are ways you could make them give up their Breath, and think about the incredible power they would bring. In short, Nalthis has more to offer than meets the eye, and I don't think we should discount it just because it creeps some people out (even though I am admittedly among those people. Thoughts? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
datalaughing Posted May 29, 2020 Report Share Posted May 29, 2020 (edited) 14 minutes ago, PiedPeterPiper said: Thoughts? Look, I like Nalthis a lot. The colors, the people, the magic. It's got so much amazing stuff. The subtle and innate abilities that you get from being at the various heightenings have always been one of my favorite features of any of the Cosmere magic systems. Stuff like Life Sense and Perfect Pitch are just neat. They're not flashy like other powers, but they're things that just kind of make life a little better without hurting anyone. You don't see a lot of that sort of thing. And the Fifth Heightening makes you functionally immortal. That's something anyone can just show up on the planet from anywhere and get if you've got the money for it. I feel like Nalthis would be the Cosmere vacation destination for the obscenely rich. Think of a big spa type thing set up in this beautiful tropical paradise around Helandren, and the super-ultra-mega VIP spa package includes functional immortality alongside all the massages and pampering and stuff. It's an awesome place. But all that said, if only one planet is going to survive, I think the one that's overrun with zombies that anyone with enough Breath and knowhow can turn into their personal army of conquest isn't at the top of my list. Just say no to zombie hordes. It always seems fun at first until something goes wrong and brains start getting eaten. Edited May 29, 2020 by datalaughing 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PiedPiper Posted May 29, 2020 Report Share Posted May 29, 2020 I agree that Nalthis can go bad pretty quickly depending on who's running it. But I have (possibly misplaced) faith in humanity's ability to do the right thing in the end, or to overcome people who are doing the wrong thing. This example may undermine my argument, but look at Scadrial: they overthrew the Lord Ruler and then dealt with Ruin all on their own. Imagine what kinds of amazing things the people of Nalthis could do with some better-crafted laws. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grenbot Posted May 29, 2020 Author Report Share Posted May 29, 2020 12 minutes ago, datalaughing said: It's an awesome place. But all that said, if only one planet is going to survive, I think the one that's overrun with zombies that anyone with enough Breath and knowhow can turn into their personal army of conquest isn't at the top of my list. Just say no to zombie hordes. It always seems fun at first until something goes wrong and brains start getting eaten. This. I loved the idea of breath too and I honestly really like the color system. More than anything else, it allows for units of investiture to be converted to units of energy. Breath increases intensity of color, Intensity equals power per area, now we have investiture in terms of Joules. However, it is specifically BECAUSE these are worldhoppers that I am less inclined to save the world. Help more of them offworld and let the planet burn with its zombies. Or let the zombie army ravage shadesmar...? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Honorless Posted May 30, 2020 Report Share Posted May 30, 2020 (edited) Nope, Nalthian Investiture just puts me off so badly. The inherent Investiture in people isn't immediately useful either. Lots of other people have to become drabs for that Investiture to be useful. And Denth was wrong: Quote Brandon Sanderson Denth's Speed Yes, Denth is inhumanly fast. He's a Returned, after all, and has all of the physical enhancements that come with that. Even when he's chosen not to manifest most of them, he's still got an edge, just like Vasher does. How do they hide that they're Returned? Well, it comes down to mastery of their ability to change their appearance. They can't shape-shift entirely; they can just alter some things about their appearance. They can change their weight, their hair color, and things like that at will. Vasher doesn't do this often, but Denth has been known to use it as a disguise. The problem, after you do this once and someone realizes it, your nature becomes very suspect. They have learned to suppress their divine Breath. This allows them to hide, but they must be careful never to give away all of their Breath. Denth has been a Drab before—he's not completely lying—but never for longer than a few days. And his divine Breath is always there, suppressed. So he doesn't know what it's like to be a true Drab, which is why in this chapter he says he doesn't think it changes you that much. He's never felt it. Warbreaker Annotations (Oct. 26, 2010) Quote Brandon Sanderson Vivenna's Thoughts on Being a Drab A lot of what happened to Vivenna—how she saw the world and how she acted—was influenced by being a Drab. As I've said before, the Hallandren aren't right when they say losing your Breath does nothing to you. Most Drabs struggle with depression, and the fact that they're almost always sick doesn't help either. And so, Vivenna's time on the streets was artificially made more dreary and terrible than it truly was. Being a Drab, being sick, the shock of being betrayed—these things combined to give you the person you saw in the previous two chapters. It's a way to cut a corner. I wanted Vivenna to feel like she'd been on the streets for months, but for it only to have been a few weeks. She is able to make her hair change colors again. This is a representation of the fact that she has started to pull out of the nightmare. She's slightly in control of her world again, and the roughest time for her has passed. There's also a clue in that hair, one that Vasher mentions. Because of it, and her heritage, and something very mysterious in the past, every member of the royal line has a fraction of a divine Returned Breath in them. That makes it much easier for them to learn to Awaken than a normal person. Warbreaker Annotations (Feb. 22, 2011) Being a drab does make you depressed also the Returned business. There's always a sword of Damocles hanging over their head. They need to die. Again. Or be a leech. Their death could save someone, their continued existence is costly. Outside Hallandren, other nations exploit the Returned. It's a bad situation to be in. Edited June 12, 2020 by R J 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grenbot Posted May 30, 2020 Author Report Share Posted May 30, 2020 I honestly have a lot of optimism for the returned and see a lot of beauty in it. If I could come back to life just to make some kind of difference, even just once, I would take it. I hope to do so without becoming Returned but if I died in a car accident tomorrow I would 100% take the opportunity to Return. I know it’s debatable as to whether or not the leaching is worth it, but in Lightsong’s cause it sure as hell seems like it was, right? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frustration Posted June 1, 2020 Report Share Posted June 1, 2020 You guys do realize that even if the planet gets vaporized that the resident Shard would be fine right? So why the hate for Braize? Also I'm saving Roshar, I want me some Stormlight 10 and every other book chronologically after this point is irreverent by comparison. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karger Posted June 1, 2020 Report Share Posted June 1, 2020 7 hours ago, Frustration said: You guys do realize that even if the planet gets vaporized that the resident Shard would be fine right? So why the hate for Braize? We don't like the current residents. I would probably save Roshar. Highest number of people saved and a good place for refugees from all places do to lower gravity and higher oxygen. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frustration Posted June 1, 2020 Report Share Posted June 1, 2020 11 minutes ago, Karger said: We don't like the current residents. The Fused would also be fine. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karger Posted June 1, 2020 Report Share Posted June 1, 2020 (edited) 36 minutes ago, Frustration said: The Fused would also be fine. Depends on the method of destruction. It would still hopefully make them unhappy and even if it does not even inconvenience them it will still make me happy. Edited June 1, 2020 by Karger 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grenbot Posted June 1, 2020 Author Report Share Posted June 1, 2020 36 minutes ago, Karger said: Depends on the method of destruction. It would still hopefully make them unhappy. Hahahahahaha “it would still hopefully make them unhappy” Exactly. Also if you can only save one planet, knowing that Braize was basically the Disneyland of Herald torture just makes it an easy planet to destroy. Does it matter that Odium would survive? Not even a little. In fact, if Odium was imprisoned there it would be a good planet to keep... except all other Shardworlds would be destroyed sooooo what’s the point? We’d literally be fulfilling Odie’s intent. That’s why I choose Scadrial. Give Harmony some time to figure his power out and then let Odium go and let them go at it. Although: 8 hours ago, Frustration said: Also I'm saving Roshar, I want me some Stormlight 10 and every other book chronologically after this point is irreverent by comparison. I also want me some SA10 so really good point. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigmikey357 Posted June 4, 2020 Report Share Posted June 4, 2020 I gotta pick Roshar. They can essentially duplicate any technological advancements as the guys on Scadrial and Taldain, albeit by vastly different methods so no loss there. The weather sucks, true, but they have much more real estate if you factor in the CR. But lastly and most importantly, If Roshar dies you lose the Listeners, the spren and both sets of Amians in addition to humanity. Sure Odium is a problem but I trust Dalinar to handle it. So for the Preservation of many sapient species, Roshar must be spared. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golstar Posted June 4, 2020 Report Share Posted June 4, 2020 Roshar if destroying it would leave the Dawnblade(s) out in the open. Scadrial if Roshar being destroyed would take the Dawnblade(s) with it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halyo_Alex Posted June 4, 2020 Report Share Posted June 4, 2020 4 hours ago, Golstar said: Roshar if destroying it would leave the Dawnblade(s) out in the open. Scadrial if Roshar being destroyed would take the Dawnblade(s) with it. Dawnshards. We don't actually know if they're blades. Could be Plate, even. Or something entirely different. Who knows. not me. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirWolfe Posted June 5, 2020 Report Share Posted June 5, 2020 I'd say Scadrial could be destroyed without lasting repercussions, for the sole reason that the particular combination of Shards makes them very resilient and gives the Scadrians quite a bit of potential to rebuild. Ruin and Preservation complement each other so well that they are implied to have created the planet out of nothing, and I have a feeling that they (well, Harmony now) might be able to do it again. And considering the fact that there are at least two well known and reasonably accessible Shardpools, combined with the pre-existing transportation systems (the airships of the Southern Scadrians and the trains of the Northern Scadrians), a quick evacuation to the Cognitive Realm is a reasonable possibility. Harmony has shown himself to get directly involved with the Scadrians when he needs to, and most of the people know that he is real, so he could just mobilize the Pathians or the Kandra to organize a mass evacuation. Afterwards, Harmony could just fix the planet, then let the people back in. I think Roshar should be saved, because if Roshar is destroyed, Odium will be able to escape, and then he will probably go on to destroy whatever Shardworld we'd chosen to save. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grenbot Posted June 5, 2020 Author Report Share Posted June 5, 2020 1 minute ago, SirWolfe said: I'd say Scadrial could be destroyed without lasting repercussions, for the sole reason that the particular combination of Shards makes them very resilient and gives the Scadrians quite a bit of potential to rebuild. Ruin and Preservation complement each other so well that they are implied to have created the planet out of nothing, and I have a feeling that they (well, Harmony now) might be able to do it again. And considering the fact that there are at least two well known and reasonably accessible Shardpools, combined with the pre-existing transportation systems (the airships of the Southern Scadrians and the trains of the Northern Scadrians), a quick evacuation to the Cognitive Realm is a reasonable possibility. Harmony has shown himself to get directly involved with the Scadrians when he needs to, and most of the people know that he is real, so he could just mobilize the Pathians or the Kandra to organize a mass evacuation. Afterwards, Harmony could just fix the planet, then let the people back in. I am convinced!! I think this is the best argument for blanking out Scadrial. With this, I officially change my vote to Save Roshar. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NameIess Posted June 6, 2020 Report Share Posted June 6, 2020 Something to consider about Roshar is that almost everything about it is unstable: Quote Paleo On the Discord also they tried to... because the moon is always like on the horizon and they did the math and technically it's possible but it would have to change its inclination I think through one hundred degrees every turn. Is it natural or is it also maintained by... Brandon Sanderson It is also maintained by the system. We ran the math on that one too. It, like, the Rosharans also are not in a stable orbit but this one's even less in a stable orbit, let's just say that. Paleo Somebody did like the universe simulator thing and somebody ran it to Roshar and they said it crashed into each other. Brandon Sanderson I mean they would, we find we got like ten, no like a hundred thousand years before it happens but yeah, the moons are very not stable on Roshar, let's just say that. I'm not convinced that the continent is stable either. On geological terms I don't think... if Roshar were as old as Earth is, you would not have a continent, is what I think. Even with the crem and stuff. Paleo The crem isn't enough... you said before that it shifts east? Brandon Sanderson That's what I think, I haven't done the math but that's what my instinct says that it wouldn't be enough. But we'll leave that for people who actually run the math until they... because I do not have time to get a degree in ecological science. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rushu42 Posted June 8, 2020 Report Share Posted June 8, 2020 I think the argument for which Shardworld to preserve has to be motivated by the number of lives that we could save. Looking at population, Sel has the most, so it seems like it would be the first choice. However, it is famously difficult to worldhop to, so that rules off the possibility of off-worlders taking refuge there. Below is a WoB that discusses the difficulty of accessing various worlds. (Note that I edited it down to the relevant paragraph). Quote Other places, you say, "I wanna go here", and they're like, "Yeah, I've known someone who tried that and they never came back. I'm not taking you." So, where you're going, where you're trafficking, Khriss gives you some indications of which ones are easy to get to and which ones are commonly visited. I would recommend that if you want to go on vacation in the cosmere, like, "I want to go somewhere different," go to Nalthis. Go to Nalthis. Nalthis is great to go to, right? They even have customs that you can go through. You can like, arrive, and things like this. Don't go to Sel. Sel is not good to go to. Sel is really dangerous to go to. There's a dead Shard--two of them--in the Cognitive Realm that will destroy you. Other places, Scadrial, used to be a lot easier to get to. Roshar, depends on which era you're talking about. Sometimes it's pretty easy to go to. Those nice Horneaters will treat you like a god and feed you food. However, right now, it might not be a good time to try to visit Roshar. JordanCon 2018 (April 21, 2018) That seems to be pointing towards Nalthis as a potential top candidate. Of course, if there's no advance warning for this destruction, then the point about refugees is essentially moot. So far, the assumption seems to be that the resident Shard survives when the planet goes, so the effect this would have on Cosmere politics would just be in making all of the Shards fight over the same planet. While this could lead to some pretty awesome showdowns, I don't think it needs to be specified that this would cause a lot of problems for the mortal residents. In that case, Sel might actually be the best choice, as its relative inaccessibility would force Shards to take their squabbles off-world (at least to some extent). Plus, Selish magic can produce essentially unlimited food, meaning that it could sustain itself for as long as needed. Add that to the point that Selish magic is the one system that could not survive elsewhere, and I think it's earned my vote. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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