Long Game 66: A Struggle for Power

[The Young Pyromancer]

17 minutes ago, Elkanah said:

Sadly I have not broken the game quite yet, but rest assured I am working on it.

I have some ideas on that as well. Thinking one MASSIVE PM, getting everyone Boxings, bu I read the rules, and it does NOT say two boxings per PM.

Also, @StrikerEZ, what happens if there's a medallion of a thing that requires multiple charges tapped to be useful? 

Right, more game thoughts. I doubt it, but can a spike take a thief or Hemalurgist role? Can people give boxings to each other? If someone stores Identity on the same turn as they store something else, can they create an unkeyed metalmind? Can you use a medallion to store? Can you store in a unfilled spike to make it not work, as it's invested and cannot take more investiture? Is the voting thing applied it you retract it? What if your vote is cancelled? If someone is storing bronze, does that mean they can't also get the voting benefit? Is their vote cancelled, or can they just not vote in the first place? If you're a pinnacle, and you're storing, what happens if the person retracts the vote? If you forget and vote on someone no one was voting for, does that mean your storing is cancelled? Is there a convenient way to count the words of posts, or do we have to do it outside of 17th shard?

More to come.

Edited June 4, 2020 by The Young Pyromancer
Copy-pasted from G-doc incorrectly.

[Coffeecat]

On 6/4/2020 at 1:31 PM, Experience said:

Actually, Maybe I won't. I should probably sleep. 

I have hereby decided that I don't think I will be using this format, @Lord_Silberfarben

hm???

ok???

[|TJ|]

Wait. I'm a little bit confused. The initial write-up lead me to believe there are PRE agents among Loyalists and Loyalists were rooting them out. This write-up seem to suggest the opposite. With Variel described as Loyalist and his unsuccessful escape, it seems to suggest that PRE got wind of the Loyalists and finish they're trying to finish them off. Which one is it?

I know it doesn't matter because all we need to know is PRE = Village and Loyalists = Elims, but it's important to my RP.

@StrikerEZ

Edited June 4, 2020 by TJ Shade

[Araris Valerian]

1 hour ago, Elkanah said:

On that note, since Kandra can not kill, they are the least of our worries and I recommend we spend no time trying to find them. As far as I am concerned, they are probably going to get taken out by the elims in the first few cycles. The Kandra loses as soon as the last elim dies which adds an interesting incentive for the Kandra to work with them. The problem is if the kandra ever reveals themself to the eliminators, the elims have no incentive to keep the kandra alive. The village also has no interest in keeping the kandra alive or dead. Whoever has this role, I wish you luck.

What, in your mind, differentiates trying to find the Kandra versus trying to find the elims? Aren’t both the Kandra and elims pursuing win conditions that will lead to dishonest reads and votes in the thread?

I think I’ll start the lynch pressure a little early with a second vote on Mist. Welcome to Sanderson Elimination!

[Kynedath]

Alright folks, time for the madness to begin! I have a feeling that trying to analyze each and every single role will be a tiresome and tedious job for whomever (cough cough @xinoehp512) decides to take it on. (JK Xino, I do NOT expect you to go through all of them!)

I don't think there is one specific strategy for finding elims this game outside normal strats, although with roles it can get messy really quickly. I personally don't like using PMs, but if anyone wants to PM me then please feel free! 

[Magestar]

Reginald chewed contemplatively on his pipe, puffing it gently while eyeing the dead man's body.  He shook his head.  The man had clearly been an idiot.  It would be good not to have too many hotheads in this room; the more agitated people were, the more likely things were to go horribly awry.  Reginald extinguished his pipe, sighing.  This would not be the first time he'd been trapped in a room with people he probably didn't like and who'd probably kill him if they got the chance.  Really, most noble balls were much the same.  

Reginald eyed the crowd he was in.  Yes, there were a good many nobles in this crowd.  A good many common citizens as well.  The Metallic Arts were no longer constrained to the nobility, as they had been before the Catacendre.  The variety of people wasn't terribly surprising.  The trick would be finding the traitors.  And more importantly, how would he stay alive long enough to do so?  In a room filled with frightened metalborn, things were liable to get out of hand rather quickly.  All the more reason to find the traitors before anything happened.  

At any rate, Reginald thought as he made his way to the opposite side of the room, considering how long we'll be staying here, it's unlikely this is the only room in the compound.  Their captors would need to house this entire room of people; that meant sleeping arrangements and food.  If there was anything Reginald needed right now, it was good meal.  Reginald rubbed his hands together.  Time to explore.

---

Ah, this is already looking up.  Votes flying, suspicions gathering, and people are already theorizing about the different roles.  SE at it's finest.

Personally, while I do think the kandra role is interesting, I think that at most it's a small monkey wrench to the village.  Really, it's a very difficult role to play, since you're basically in the same place as Luthadel against Cett and Straff Venture in the first Mistborn trilogy.  The only real way to win is to play the other two factions off each other.  While that's definitely one of the more entertaining roles you could have, I think that perhaps it's not the best thing to focus on as villagers.  If we pursue the Elims, we'll probably end up finding the Kandra.  Worst case scenario, we kill the Kandra thinking they're an Elim, or an Elim pretends to be Kandra and we kill them anyway.

The really interesting role to me is the Thief role.  The way I see it, the Thief has a fairly high chance of stealing a fairly large portion of a person's coin each time they steal.  Since it's pretty obvious from watching the thread who will have the most coin, the Thief could fairly quickly accumulate quite a number of boxings.  With the right strategy, I think the Thief could definitely become very powerful mid game, considering how strong some of the items are.

I'm not going to poke anyone just yet.  Might throw a couple votes around later in the cycle.  Looking forward to seeing how this plays out!

[Lahilt]

Ok, lets get started  This is my observation. Right now the villagers know almost nothing. The elims however do know who is elim and who is not an Elim. What does/do the kandra know...? I am at work right now so i will RP later.

 

[The Young Pyromancer]

5 minutes ago, Lahilt said:

What does/do the kandra know...?

They know we're gonna kick their butts.

[|TJ|]

Do we know for sure that kandra cannot kill? I mean other than canonically. It's not given in the rules that they can't.

[Ashbringer]

Lord Faleast watched the swift execution of the Coinshot with mild interest. Shooting coins at a man clearly obeying orders was, of course, a very condemning action, but it was the swiftness of the reaction that interested him. This room could explode into violence faster than a Steelpush, and Faleast had no intention of making any enemies tonight. He made sure to move extra slowly as he sat down into an available chair at someone’s table.

There would come a time to take action in this matter, but for now, Faleast felt secure. He was new to the organization, and while not as new as some, that could make somewhat of a target on his back. But for now, people were merely pointing blame at the individuals they knew about: this event was a perfect time for enemies to try and get revenge and for deteriorating friendships to fly apart.

Hopefully by the time anyone came around to asking him questions, he would have a way to prove his relative innocence. But for now, Lord Faleast leaned back in his chair, arms folded around his body, ears open to the arguments around him. He would join once there was a glimmer of information he could receive. 

-----------------

I'm honestly worried about the Kandra. It seems that whoever it is must have some ability that we don't know about, otherwise like said in the starting thread the Kandra can only win if a last remaining Village and Elim get rid of each other. It doesn’t seem like the Kandra is a rewritten SK role, as the Village/Elims can win over its head (unlike, say... Bleeder). Which means I suspect that the Kandra, if not killing, may have some impersonation abilities. Something to perhaps mimic a deceased role or "transfer" the role of Kandra from one player to another.

But I agree it shouldn't be the village's priority. It's a danger we need to watch out for, but it's also a rabbit hole that we need to watch out for. Elims we know can kill, and are probably easier to read. Better to face the known than the unknown.

Lastly, I can provide some commentary if needed on why I think people are doing what, but keep in mind I have no idea how people "usually" sound or post. So I can be a fresh perspective, but probably not a completely trustworthy one. But please let me know if I completely misunderstand something.

... Copy and pasting from Word to make sure I hit 200 words is a little unexpected challenge.

Edited June 4, 2020 by Ashbringer
OOC commentary

[The Young Pyromancer]

19 minutes ago, Ashbringer said:

... Copy and pasting from Word to make sure I hit 200 words is a little unexpected challenge.

Note that unless the RP is 200 words, or the game analysis is 200 words, it doesn't count. It has to be RP or game analysis, not RP and game analysis totaling 200 words.

[Ashbringer]

Just now, The Young Pyromancer said:

Note that unless the RP is 200 words, or the game analysis is 200 words, it doesn't count. It has to be RP or game analysis, not RP and game analysis totaling 200 words.

Both sections are over. I checked. Many more times than was probably necessary .

The question is, since they're in the same post, do I get one or two boxings?

[Kynedath]

3 minutes ago, Ashbringer said:

Both sections are over. I checked. Many more times than was probably necessary .

The question is, since they're in the same post, do I get one or two boxings?

My bet is two, but the GM can clarify. @StrikerEZ

On the subject of the Kandra, Thematically it would make sense that they have their own special powers not associated with allomantic and feruchemical abilities, right? So I would think that in the game they would have their own set of abilities and not have allo/feru roles. This is concerning, but since we don't know what those roles are we have no way of finding them based on that analysis. I don't think it would benefit the village to go looking for them with such little information. So my thinking is that the best strategy would be to go after the elims as normal and hope that the Kandra is acting suspicious enough to make us think they're an elim.

[Ashbringer]

18 minutes ago, Kynedath said:

My bet is two, but the GM can clarify. @StrikerEZ

On the subject of the Kandra, Thematically it would make sense that they have their own special powers not associated with allomantic and feruchemical abilities, right? So I would think that in the game they would have their own set of abilities and not have allo/feru roles. This is concerning, but since we don't know what those roles are we have no way of finding them based on that analysis. I don't think it would benefit the village to go looking for them with such little information. So my thinking is that the best strategy would be to go after the elims as normal and hope that the Kandra is acting suspicious enough to make us think they're an elim.

I would also carry some suspicion of anyone attacked who survived with no real explanation. There may be Thugs and Lurchers out there, but I suspect the Kandra has at least a resistance to getting  killed, maybe even lynched. It’s also possible that “was attacked, but survived!” could sometimes really mean “was attacked, didn’t survive, the Kandra ate the body and is now walking around with their bones” through some complex PMing, roleswapping, wincon shenanigans.

Mayhaps if the Kandra “dies” in the same turn someone else is attacked, the attacked player survives as the new Kandra? Then the “dead” player can PM the living Kandra with what they know?

... wait. Would that explain the doc?

... unrelated question, are the thief/Hemalurgist known to be on one team or another? Or are they just mystery roles that could be Village or Elim (or Kandra)?

[Mat]

2 minutes ago, Ashbringer said:

I would also carry some suspicion of anyone attacked who survived with no real explanation. There may be Thugs and Lurchers out there, but I suspect the Kandra has at least a resistance to getting  killed, maybe even lynched. It’s also possible that “was attacked, but survived!” could sometimes really mean “was attacked, didn’t survive, the Kandra ate the body and is now walking around with their bones” through some complex PMing, roleswapping, wincon shenanigans.

Mayhaps if the Kandra “dies” in the same turn someone else is attacked, the attacked player survives as the new Kandra? Then the “dead” player can PM the living Kandra with what they know?

... wait. Would that explain the doc?

Mind=Blown

That probably is close to accurate, actually. That would explain the win condition... Does figuring out the twist of the game count as breaking it, @StrikerEZ? If so, brownies for Ashbringer.

[Kynedath]

6 minutes ago, Matrim's_Dice said:

Mind=Blown

That probably is close to accurate, actually. That would explain the win condition... Does figuring out the twist of the game count as breaking it, @StrikerEZ? If so, brownies for Ashbringer.

Wait, it was actual brownies? I thought it was just brownie points! Man, I would have tried so much harder!

[Magestar]

There's been a lot of discussion of Kandra body swapping mechanics over the years, but as far as I know, it's usually been dismissed fairly quickly as something that's rather impractical to do outside the context of an anon game.  It's possible that it could be treated as a conversion role or something similar, with the prerequisite that the original Kandra dies before the new one is converted.  But unless things have changed quite a bit since I last played, I'd doubt that there's a body swapping element.  It's definitely an interesting thought, and I'd be impressed if it were in the game, but I've never seen anything like that.

11 minutes ago, Ashbringer said:

... unrelated question, are the thief/Hemalurgist known to be on one team or another? Or are they just mystery roles that could be Village or Elim (or Kandra)?

I'm pretty sure that they're just additional roles to fuel the role madness of this game.  They could potentially be anywhere, but I'd be surprised if the Thief is an Elim, personally.  It's definitely a role that could run away with the game in Elim hands, IMO.

I'd also note that with the shear number of protection roles in this game, I'd not be surprised at all to see a lot of "attacked, but survived" messages.  Lurcher, Thug, Brute, Bloodmaker.  Possibly Kandra, although that's purely guesswork.  I'd also imagine that most people who survive an attack will fairly quickly claim one of those abilities, so going after anyone who survives an attack might be a bit fruitless.

[Experience]

Wow, Pyro is completely blowing everyone away with the most posts so far. Time to catch up.

[Shard of Reading]

Please note that I did not pick a name for my character so I will just call them reading.

Reading groaned. He was told that this was just going to be a quick meeting. Now he was going to be stuck here for over a month! He fingered his metal minds, a nervous habit from when he was a child. He chose at random and walked over to a person.

“Hey, do you know where the food is? I want to be able to take stock,” He asked.

“I don’t know you might have to ask the person who locked us in here,” The woman answered.

“Great, thanks”

Despite this obviously being a “Social Gathering” Reading did not really want to participate just yet. He decided that he would go find the food and beds and do a quick inventory. As he wandered the halls he considered the possible scenarios and implications of everyone being held here. This was an incredibly costly strategy by the people’s republic of elendel. Likely they would kill many people who supported the republic and even still the loyalists might win. There were so many unknowns. After wandering the halls for a little and finding nothing he decided to go back to the main room and see what had happened. He found that minimal things had changed.

--------

Basic rules analysis and poke votes!

So, while we should not focus on the kandra, (They only become dangerous late game) I think that it would be a good idea to figure out, or at least have some theories on what they can do. I think that they have a kill action of some sort because otherwise at the end there would need to be 1 elim, 1 villager and them and they would need to lynch the elim and have the elim kill the villager. That is just too complex for it to likely work. Also @Ashbringer I doubt that the kandra would have that ability. I think that all major abilities are written down and it would be a bit too much going in their favor for that to happen. While it is possible I highly doubt it. I think that the kandra likely has a non-metallic arts ability because they likely don’t have extra spikes at this point in the game. So, they might be a hemalurgy expert and thief and then spike someone to get their ability. So to sum it up I don’t think that the Kandra has a special ability I think that they just have hemalurgy. 

Also I vote Mist. defend yourself!

Edited June 4, 2020 by Shard of Reading
Formatting error.

[Kynedath]

1 minute ago, Shard of Reading said:

Basic rules analysis and poke votes!

So, while we should not focus on the kandra, (They only become dangerous late game) I think that it would be a good idea to figure out, or at least have some theories on what they can do. I think that they have a kill action of some sort because otherwise at the end there would need to be 1 elim, 1 villager and them and they would need to lynch the elim and have the elim kill the villager. That is just too complex for it to likely work. Also @Ashbringer I doubt that the kandra would have that ability. I think that all major abilities are written down and it would be a bit too much going in their favor for that to happen. While it is possible I highly doubt it. I think that the kandra likely has a non-metallic arts ability because they likely don’t have extra spikes at this point in the game. So, they might be a hemalurgy expert and thief and then spike someone to get their ability. So to sum it up I don’t think that the Kandra has a special ability I think that they just have hemalurgy. 

Also I vote Mist. defend yourself!

While I like your analysis of Kandra, why did you vote on Mist? Araris is already voting for them. Plus you didn't red out your vote either, so was it a legit vote?

[Mat]

3 minutes ago, Shard of Reading said:

Also I vote Mist. defend yourself!

---

The lack of red text suggest otherwise.

Sigh, ninja'd by Kyne

Edited June 4, 2020 by Matrim's_Dice

[The Young Pyromancer]

24 minutes ago, Ashbringer said:

I would also carry some suspicion of anyone attacked who survived with no real explanation. There may be Thugs and Lurchers out there, but I suspect the Kandra has at least a resistance to getting  killed, maybe even lynched. It’s also possible that “was attacked, but survived!” could sometimes really mean “was attacked, didn’t survive, the Kandra ate the body and is now walking around with their bones” through some complex PMing, roleswapping, wincon shenanigans.

Mayhaps if the Kandra “dies” in the same turn someone else is attacked, the attacked player survives as the new Kandra? Then the “dead” player can PM the living Kandra with what they know?

... wait. Would that explain the doc?

... unrelated question, are the thief/Hemalurgist known to be on one team or another? Or are they just mystery roles that could be Village or Elim (or Kandra)?

A doc for SK's is somewhat common. And I was in a game with a bodyswapping thing, doubt it's going to be done again.

8 minutes ago, Experience said:

Wow, Pyro is completely blowing everyone away with the most posts so far. Time to catch up.

Thanks! Also think I'm winning most PMs.

[Kynedath]

Just now, Matrim's_Dice said:

The lack of red text suggest otherwise.

Sigh, ninja'd by Kyne

Hey man, you ninja'd me in the MR, I'm just paying it forward!

[Experience]

1 minute ago, The Young Pyromancer said:

Thanks! Also think I'm winning most PMs.

There isn't a reward for that though, right?

[Shard of Reading]

1 minute ago, Kynedath said:

While I like your analysis of Kandra, why did you vote on Mist? Araris is already voting for them. Plus you didn't red out your vote either, so was it a legit vote?

Crud. I did this on docs to get word count a posted it over. I did not notice, and I thought that it would put more pressure on mist to answer because as of now they have not responded. I will probably move it once they answer.