Perception and Intent

[DuffMcGruff]

     Odium calling himself Passion got me thinking. With the way perception works in the Cosmere, could a shard change it's intent by the way it perceives/others perceive said intent?  

[Karger]

11 minutes ago, DuffMcGruff said:

     Odium calling himself Passion got me thinking. With the way perception works in the Cosmere, could a shard change it's intent by the way it perceives/others perceive said intent?  

Yes to a degree.  A shard is a constant force like gravity.  Human(or sapiant) willpower is limited.  When Ati first picked up the shard of Ruin Ruin could easily have been named Change.  It only became more destructive as he started to see things the way the shard did.  However an individual with unique or alien physiology who picked up a shard might interpret the intent vastly differently.  For example Vin while holding the shard of Preservation was probably something closer to Protection.

Quote

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

Shards and Shard intents: Holding a Shard is a contest of willpower against the Shard that, over time, is very hard to resist.

Shards affect you over time, but your mind will not leave a permanent effect on the Shard. A holder's [Vessel's] personality, however, does get to filter the Shard's intent, so to speak. However, if that holder [Vessel] no longer held that Shard, the Shard will not continue to be filtered by that person.

Alloy of Law 17th Shard Q&A (Nov. 5, 2011)

Also I think I will answer for @RShara here.  Odium is NOT passion.  It is a common misconception.

[Honorless]

In regards to Odium calling himself Passion:

Quote

Questioner

In universe, all the intents and charts and names, who names them? Do they name themselves?

Brandon Sanderson

I have kind of imagined this is one of those things that they certainly have influence over. But obviously Odium thinks that he's named something other than what he is, and I feel like these are intrinsic things that the sixteen all knew. Like, "I am missing this part of me, it is this." And it was less "we went around and named them" more like "this is just what it is". And various Shards are resisting that, but the others are all like "No, this is what you represent". 

Billy Todd, Moderator

Follow-up question there. Would the entity that we call Odium refer to itself as Odium when it's honest with itself?

Brandon Sanderson

Ehhh, I don't think Odium is capable of being honest with himself. *laughter* There are times where Odium has called himself Odium. That is more out of convenience and the fact that everyone calls you by a name. But Odium is determined to change that perception. 

Billy Todd, Moderator

So, does he genuinely believe in characterizing himself as Passion?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes. Part of him does.

Billy Todd, Moderator

Has he always ever been Odium since the Shattering?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes.

JordanCon 2018 (April 21, 2018)

Quote

 

yulerule

 

Is there any connection with the thought that it's not Hatred? Because in Oathbringer, he says he's Passion?

Brandon Sanderson

He would claim that he's Passion and not Odium. But that is part of why I chose it. Hatred felt too on-the-nose, because there is quite arguably that step toward just being all Passion, and that's what he claims that he is.

yulerule

His own perception of himself, can perception, in the cosmere, can that influence?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes, it can influence.

yulerule

So the Shard's intent can--

Brandon Sanderson

Can be influenced by their perception and the holder's, yes.

JordanCon 2018 (April 20, 2018)

 

As we saw with Ruin's Vessel, Ati and Preservation's Vessel, Leras, with time the Shard's Intent would start molding the Vessel's mind. The Vessel can influence how the Shardic Intent is expressed or filtered but it's a tug of war that they'll inevitably lose

[RShara]

9 hours ago, Karger said:

Yes to a degree.  A shard is a constant force like gravity.  Human(or sapiant) willpower is limited.  When Ati first picked up the shard of Ruin Ruin could easily have been named Change.  It only became more destructive as he started to see things the way the shard did.  However an individual with unique or alien physiology who picked up a shard might interpret the intent vastly differently.  For example Vin while holding the shard of Preservation was probably something closer to Protection.

Also I think I will answer for @RShara here.  Odium is NOT passion.  It is a common misconception.

You missed the, "Darn it" part

"Odium is not Passion, darn it!"

[Eternal Khol]

22 hours ago, DuffMcGruff said:

     Odium calling himself Passion got me thinking. With the way perception works in the Cosmere, could a shard change it's intent by the way it perceives/others perceive said intent?  

The core intent will always be the same.

He can kind of “warp” the Intent, so to speak, but his intent will always be Odium but since he perceives it as “Passion”(or part of him does) the Shard itself(and the way we see it manifest) is bound to act different than if someone else held Odium and perceived it to be and understood it as Odium.

Odium will always be Odium, but since he believes he’s Passion, in a way he kind of is(because thats how he perceives himself) and the Shard reacts to that

Thats my take on it anyway 

Edited May 25, 2020 by Eternal Khol

[Frustration]

27 minutes ago, RShara said:

You missed the, "Darn it" part

"Odium is not Passion, darn it!"

My first post was on the topic 'the value of Odium' and I got a very similar reaction from you, ah, memories.

[RShara]

9 minutes ago, Frustration said:

My first post was on the topic 'the value of Odium' and I got a very similar reaction from you, ah, memories.

I practically have it as a macro