Honor's Perpendicularity

[Odeem]

So... I haven't been able to find anything on here or in the wobs about it. But could Honor's Perpendicularity be moving because it was part of the Oathpact? As far as I know we don't know for sure how the Heralds went to and from Braize. Could the perpendicularity be the method they used? If it were true, the Oathpact could theoretically block their access to it when it's on Braize, I would think. And, if it was used in this manner, Honor would theoretically move it back and forth as needed - then he dies and it was anchored at two points in the system and started basically rubberbanding back and forth? It would at least explain why it moves around.

I've no idea if it's even plausible, but I figured I would ask here since y'all know a lot of the ins and outs of the Cosmere.

[Aminar]

I don't think we have enough information yet, but I'd guess next book we'll learn more. 

[RShara]

Pretty sure Honor's perpendicularity is the highstorm, and that's why it moves. The moment when Kaladin sees the Face and his spheres burst into light.

[Aminar]

25 minutes ago, RShara said:

Pretty sure Honor's perpendicularity is the highstorm, and that's why it moves. The moment when Kaladin sees the Face and his spheres burst into light.

It doesn't seem to manifest that way in the Cognitive Realm. And we know Dalinar opened it at the end of OathBringer without causing a storm and to Odium's surprise. His comment was something like, "No, I killed you." 

[RShara]

Right, Dalinar opened it without needing to bring the storm. But usually, it's in the highstorm. Otherwise how do spheres get recharged during highstorms?

[Light In the Darkness]

But if it was open during highstorms, it would probably leave a path of weirdness or extra special stuff. That would be like dripping out the well of ascension along a path over the continent; weird stuff would probably happen. Unless it is the highstorm; like, the pool is the clouds. That would explain why crem exists, a little bit.

[KandraAllomancer]

10 minutes ago, RShara said:

Right, Dalinar opened it without needing to bring the storm. But usually, it's in the highstorm. Otherwise how do spheres get recharged during highstorms?

I was pretty much 100% convinced that it was the case until today, but after a quick look at the Coppermind article it seems that (based on Azure's account in Oathbringer chapter 93) these two are not correlated. Maybe it has something to do with the Origin?

[Honorless]

On 5/23/2020 at 11:41 PM, Light In the Darkness said:

But if it was open during highstorms, it would probably leave a path of weirdness or extra special stuff. That would be like dripping out the well of ascension along a path over the continent; weird stuff would probably happen. Unless it is the highstorm; like, the pool is the clouds. That would explain why crem exists, a little bit.

Oh people see weird things in the Highstorms all the time. See Shallan's chapter where she & Adolin are at a restaurant/storm shelter iirc and Dalinar's flashbacks when he goes to get a spoon. Kaladin sees them on the Shattered Plains.

The Sharders call them Stormstriders from the chapter title where Kaladin sees them.

 

found some topics discussing them:

https://amp.reddit.com/r/Stormlight_Archive/comments/7grf49/oathbringer_no_one_seems_to_be_talking_about/

Edited June 6, 2020 by R J
added info & links

[Hen]

53 minutes ago, RShara said:

Right, Dalinar opened it without needing to bring the storm. But usually, it's in the highstorm. Otherwise how do spheres get recharged during highstorms?

I remember in part three of OB Dalinar asks the Stormfather how spheres are recharged and he says this:

Quote

"Honors power, during a storm, is concentrated in one place, the Stormfather said. It pierces all three realms and brings Physical, Cognitive, and Spiritual together momentarily in one. The gemstones, exposed to the wonder of the spiritual realm, are lit by the infinite power there" Oathbringer pg. 639 hardcover 

I don't know if this helps, but it sounds like a perpendicularity to me? 

Edited May 23, 2020 by Hentient

[Aminar]

In OathBringer they're looking for a perpendicularity when trapped in Shadesmar. They see the storm, but it doesn't manifest in a way that let's them travel the realms like a perpendicularity would. It's just lights in the sky. Storms don't act like other perpendicularities we've seen at all. And they're older than the shattering of Adonalsium. Yet even before Honor rode the winds the storms were assumedly dropping off stormlight. 

[Light In the Darkness]

Perhaps when Honor died and left his cognitive shadow with the Stormfather, his perpendicularity spread out along the stormfront or whatever secondary front that infuses spheres. The lower concentration would make it hard to use, even without the fact that there are 3 or 4 separate highstorms traveling Roshar and the location inconsistency. 

[Eternal Khol]

The Stormlight comes from the Spiritual Realm through Stormfather and into the storm

[Aminar]

2 hours ago, Light In the Darkness said:

Perhaps when Honor died and left his cognitive shadow with the Stormfather, his perpendicularity spread out along the stormfront or whatever secondary front that infuses spheres. The lower concentration would make it hard to use, even without the fact that there are 3 or 4 separate highstorms traveling Roshar and the location inconsistency. 

That seems wrong. Where's the 3 or 4 storms constantly circling from? They seem to cover the whole continent in less than a day and Roshar is the only major continent. With them hitting every few days it doesn't make sense to have multiple storms(barring the addition of the Everstorm). The continent looks to be in the Southern Hemisphere. And looks to be at least a third of the planet's horizontal circumference. 

 

[Hen]

56 minutes ago, Aminar said:

That seems wrong. Where's the 3 or 4 storms constantly circling from? They seem to cover the whole continent in less than a day and Roshar is the only major continent. With them hitting every few days it doesn't make sense to have multiple storms(barring the addition of the Everstorm). The continent looks to be in the Southern Hemisphere. And looks to be at least a third of the planet's horizontal circumference. 

 

I agree. But I think the storm father sends the storms on his own, and sticks to a general pattern (Since he is a spren he can keep to the pattern fairly well.) And the storm wardens have found ways to tell when they will come. we see this in the middle of the weeping when he sends the storm unpredictably. I feel like if the storm(s) were constantly circling the planet it would be very easy to predict, but the storm wardens use complex calculations. Yes, I know this "Theory" has many holes, but its just the assumption I've been working under. 

1 hour ago, Eternal Khol said:

The Stormlight comes from the Spiritual Realm through Stormfather and into the storm

Yes, because its honors perpendicularity. It doesn't come through the storm father, Its just there, because the 3 realms are bridged for a moment. 

I might be wrong about the storm being his perpendicularity, but what else could it be? According to the Stormfather, spheres are infused because Honors power brings the realms together for a moment. And we know his perpendicularity is always moving, like *Ahem* a storm. You can't use it to actually travel between realms, only see them for a moment, because Honor is splintered.

Again Im probably wrong, but if the Highstorms aren't a perpendicularity, what are they?

[RShara]

What I'm thinking is that the Stormfather isn't in the same "place" in every storm. Highstorms stretch for hundreds of miles, and only one "area" at a time has the perpendicularity. That's why it's unpredictable. But the perp eventually is at every point, so spheres are always recharged no matter where they are. That's why it's unpredictable and dangerous. If it always opened at the same time/place during every storm, it'd be more predictable.

So when the guys were in Shadesmar, the highstorm was passing over, but they weren't where the perp was at the time, and by the time it got to where they were, they had left.

Edited May 23, 2020 by RShara

[Eternal Khol]

27 minutes ago, Hentient said:

It doesn't come through the storm father, Its just there,

Narkac

Where does the Stormlight in highstorms come from? Is there like a "rain cycle", but for the Stormlight?

Brandon Sanderson

The Stormlight in the highstorm is transferred from the Spiritual realm through the Stormfather into the highstorm.

Paris signing (Oct. 22, 2016)

[Odeem]

I don't feel that the highstorm can be a perpendicularity simply because they're supposed to be stable junctions between the realms that can be used to travel. As far as I'm aware we have no evidence either way whether it can be housed in a spren or not - the Stormfather providing Stormlight could just stem from his connection to Honor, without it being a perpendicularity in my opinion. He is a Splinter if I'm not mistaken, and did merge with the cognitive shadow of Tanavast, which could concentrate more of his power without being an actual perpendicularity. 

[Hen]

10 minutes ago, Eternal Khol said:

Narkac

Where does the Stormlight in highstorms come from? Is there like a "rain cycle", but for the Stormlight?

Brandon Sanderson

The Stormlight in the highstorm is transferred from the Spiritual realm through the Stormfather into the highstorm.

Paris signing (Oct. 22, 2016)

Okay, Thanks. Sorry about that 

[Gilphon]

The perpendicularity being in the Highstorm would make a lot of sense, but it's unfortunately I don't think it's supported by the text- Remember at the end of WoR, when Jasnah just appears in the middle of nowhere? That must've been her using Honor's perpendicularity, because she doesn't know how to reach the PR without a perpendicularity. And it was, y'know, not during a Highstorm. 

Edited May 24, 2020 by Gilphon

[Honorless]

2 hours ago, Odeem said:

I don't feel that the highstorm can be a perpendicularity simply because they're supposed to be stable junctions between the realms that can be used to travel. As far as I'm aware we have no evidence either way whether it can be housed in a spren or not - the Stormfather providing Stormlight could just stem from his connection to Honor, without it being a perpendicularity in my opinion. He is a Splinter if I'm not mistaken, and did merge with the cognitive shadow of Tanavast, which could concentrate more of his power without being an actual perpendicularity. 

The Perpendicularities on Threnody are unstable and "morbid" (possibly referring to the Shades, perhaps they form when the Shades converge on someone) according to Khriss

Edited May 24, 2020 by R J

[Odeem]

5 minutes ago, R J said:

The Perpendicularities on Threnody are unstable and "morbid" (possibly referring to the Shades, perhaps they form when the Shades converge on someone) according to Khriss

Yeah but Honor's was around before he died. Weren't those ones caused by chunks of Ambition getting torn off by Odium?

Edit: "those" being the Threnody ones 

Edited May 24, 2020 by Odeem

[Honorless]

21 minutes ago, Odeem said:

Yeah but Honor's was around before he died. Weren't those ones caused by chunks of Ambition getting torn off by Odium?

Edit: "those" being the Threnody ones 

The Highstorms are the biggest concentration of Honor's Investiture that we've seen, and that is how Perpendicularities form, when power pools. We've already got confirmation that Highstorms are Realmatically connected across all 3 Realms, again it matches the description of what Perpendicularities are: concentration of Investiture punching a hole through the Realms

[Emerald_Mage]

On 5/23/2020 at 7:07 PM, Gilphon said:

WoR, when Jasnah just appears in the middle of nowhere?

I believe she tells Wit there that she Elsecalled over.

 

Personally, I don't think the highstorm is the perpendicularly. Yes, Honor's perpendicularity moves around, but if it always were in a highstorm you would think the spren would take note and tell the people trying to get back to the PR.

[Aminar]

36 minutes ago, Emerald_Mage said:

I believe she tells Wit there that she Elsecalled over.

 

Personally, I don't think the highstorm is the perpendicularly. Yes, Honor's perpendicularity moves around, but if it always were in a highstorm you would think the spren would take note and tell the people trying to get back to the PR.

She specifically said Else calling back is really difficult. And Hoid knew exactly where she' d cross back. That suggests there was a reason she'd be there, in virtually the middle of nowhere, seemingly not even by a water source. It really sounds like she used a perpendicularity to cross over rather than Elsecalling. 

[Gilphon]

And here's a WOB saying that while Elsecalling out of Shadesmar is possible, Jasnah doesn't know how to do it:

Quote

Questioner

Can you tell me anything about the Elsecallers we don't know yet?

Brandon Sanderson

They should be able to get back out of Shadesmar without having to find a perpendicularity, but Jasnah doesn't know how to do it yet. She should be able to do that, she just hasn't figured it out.

So she clearly couldn't have done that in that instance.