QefkaRetro

Unmade, Heralds and Honorblades.

31 posts in this topic

The first thing I would like the point out is that, this is something that came to my mind this morning when I was unable to sleep due to the heat in the UK at the moment, it could be very flawed and I could have had many things really muddled up. But, with everyones input and thoughts, I am sure more sense could be made out of this. 

Outside of the books, I must admit I am unsure with how much has been revealed from Sanderson himself, most of this could be unproven or thrown under the rug, but I think it's intersting. 

So, I have a theory about the Unmade, The Heralds and Honorblades.

Basically, the history of the Unmade is very cloudy and in modern Roshar, their history is largely unknown. Some sources claimed there was 10 but it is generally assumed that there are 9. This I think is very interesting and quite important. There are 10 heralds, and only 9 Unmade (but there could be 10, see what I am getting at?).

Ever since the Oathpact was abandoned, only 1 herald went to Braize, being Taln. This means there are 9 Heralds left on Roshar, incidentally there are 9 Unmade. I think there is a link there… I do believe that there are 10 Unmade, and even though sources indicate that they have existed on Roshar since before the Desolations, I debate how true this is (backed up by the clouded history).

I think, in previous Desolations when the Heralds were trapped on Braize, they were being tormented and fighting against a specific Unmade (one per Herald, and its Voidspren). After the Oathpact was broken, and only Taln went to Braize, his Unmade went with him. Thus, 9 Unmade were on Roshar with the 9 Heralds, and 1 on Braize with Taln.

[Off topic I thought of in my edit, but, the Unmade could be Odiums ‘Heralds’. We have seen the Fused use surges, maybe there are different types of Voidspren, similar to the different Spren needed for each order of Radiants: Honorspren, Cryptics, etc.]

For whatever reason, the Voidspren remain trapped on Braize as long as one Herald and Unmade are present. (This I can’t seem to find a logical reason for, but I think it is important, something about a Herald being on Braize keeps them trapped, even if it is one Herald.)

After Taln had given in, and returned to Roshar, everything on Braize was freed. Thus, the coming of the True Desolation. This also means I think a 10th Unmade has come to Roshar, one that has been ignored. (this backing up some sources from history that claim there were 10).

This was the first thing I have been thinking on. Secondly, Moash and Honorblades.

Moash killed Jezrien in a way that is unlike that in history, when a Herald got killed in history, they seemed to return to Braize, however, Moash killed Jezrian with a knife that contained a gemstone. I think Odium has been cunning in his planning. 4500 years had passed since the last Desolation, the longest time in history; this is A LOT of planning time.

We don’t know much about the creation of Honorblades, and we know Shardblades are Spren that mimicked Radiant surges, but Honorblades are said to be a type of Splinter of Honor. I think however, Odium has found ways to create an Honorblade out of the Herald itself. This would be interesting, if the gemstone in the dagger Moash used has bound the herald, (also confirming this death being ‘different’), then perhaps that gemstone can be used to create a new Honorblade.

And this could have interesting implications, imagine if his new Honorblade/Heraldblade?, allowed the wielder to become to new head of that order of Radiant. Imagine if, it actually allowed them to manipulate and ‘control’ the knights under that order; it would really mess up Dalinar’s plans. I feel like Moash will also be the first person to wield this. I find it too strange the Jezrien (being the order of windrunners, thus Kaladin, Moash’s ‘friend’) is the first Herald to be killed in this way.

If a new kind of power is created from Jezrien, and Moash wields it, then, he could take control of the Windrunners, and if he is able to somehow influence them, he could turn them against Dalinar. And Moash being Moash, will probably try to convince Kaladin that this is the ‘right’ thing to do.

Ironically, this could be what leads to Kaladin debating breaking his oaths, as what Syl and the Stormfather have been promising would happen, but this time, in a way that is ‘different’ to The Day of Recreance.

Since this is the True Desolation, it would make more sense that things would turn out differently to how they have in the past, ESPECIALLY with this additional time Odium has had to plan.

 

3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

First.  Welcome to the shard!  Great to have you.

5 minutes ago, QefkaRetro said:

Ever since the Oathpact was abandoned, only 1 herald went to Braize, being Taln. This means there are 9 Heralds left on Roshar, incidentally there are 9 Unmade. I think there is a link there… I do believe that there are 10 Unmade, and even though sources indicate that they have existed on Roshar since before the Desolations, I debate how true this is (backed up by the clouded history).

Interestingly you are not the first person to suggest such a theory.  However I am sorry to say that Brandon has indicated that this theory is not correct.

Quote

Questioner

Are the Unmade the analogs to Heralds?

Brandon Sanderson

There is certainly something similar going on there. Be aware that it's not a one-to-one correlation, that they're not exactly the same. For instance: Many of the- the Unmade are referenced by Taravangian in this, and he uses a phrase for them, and that is correct, that's what they are.

Footnote: In the epigraph for WoR 81 the Diagram says "The Unmade are a deviation, a flair, a conundrum that may not be worth your time. You cannot help but think of them. They are fascinating. Many are mindless. Like the spren of human emotions, only much more nasty. I do believe a few can think, however."
Words of Radiance Seattle signing (March 8, 2014)

Quote

XS-Terrain

Also, does each of the Unmade have a corresponding order of the Knights Radiant?

Brandon Sanderson

Eh... Kind of.

XS-Terrain

Ok. So there are nine Unmade right, so which one is left out?

Brandon Sanderson

Bondsmith. But it's not as one to one, there's some fuzziness in there.

Oathbringer San Francisco signing (Nov. 15, 2017)

Quote

WeiryWriter

Are the Unmade Splinters of Odium?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes. Good guess.

/r/books AMA 2015 (March 12, 2015)

6 minutes ago, QefkaRetro said:

For whatever reason, the Voidspren remain trapped on Braize as long as one Herald and Unmade are present. (This I can’t seem to find a logical reason for, but I think it is important, something about a Herald being on Braize keeps them trapped, even if it is one Herald.)

It is called the oathpact.  We don't know much about it.

7 minutes ago, QefkaRetro said:

We don’t know much about the creation of Honorblades, and we know Shardblades are Spren that mimicked Radiant surges, but Honorblades are said to be a type of Splinter of Honor. I think however, Odium has found ways to create an Honorblade out of the Herald itself. This would be interesting, if the gemstone in the dagger Moash used has bound the herald, (also confirming this death being ‘different’), then perhaps that gemstone can be used to create a new Honorblade.

The honorblades were made directly by Honor.

9 minutes ago, QefkaRetro said:

And this could have interesting implications, imagine if his new Honorblade/Heraldblade?, allowed the wielder to become to new head of that order of Radiant. Imagine if, it actually allowed them to manipulate and ‘control’ the knights under that order; it would really mess up Dalinar’s plans. I feel like Moash will also be the first person to wield this. I find it too strange the Jezrien (being the order of windrunners, thus Kaladin, Moash’s ‘friend’) is the first Herald to be killed in this way.

Radiants did not come about because of the Heralds they came because spren were trying to mimic what Honor did with the Heralds.  The Heralds provided inspiration.  They did not create the orders themselves.

10 minutes ago, QefkaRetro said:

Ironically, this could be what leads to Kaladin debating breaking his oaths, as what Syl and the Stormfather have been promising would happen, but this time, in a way that is ‘different’ to The Day of Recreance.

You are thinking of Pattern.  Syl "trusts that the honor of men lives."  Pattern thinks Shallan will betray her oaths because all other oaths were betrayed.

Edited by Karger
3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thank you! I will do an introduction later, I just wanted to get this written since it is fresh in my head. And yes I see, but I do get the impression that it isn't clear even from Sanderson's responses. He has said 'kind of' and 'some fuzziness there'. Interestingly, I get the impression that there is a minor link there. The last point is interesting, that the Unmade are Splinters of Odium. Is it possible for a shard to splinter themselves? 

I think it would be interesting if Odium had splintered itself to try and mimic the Heralds. We know spren are splinters of honor and cultivation. could the voidspren be splinters of odium? One that He created himself, and the unmade are a larger splinter made to mimic a herald? hence the 'kind of'? 

Ive edited this because I've accepted that the Heralds didnt create the knights, only shaped. But, I still think Odium could have been trying to recreate everything that was happening on Roshar itself. Trying to 'create' mimic of heralds and surges through his own spren? albeit, the unmade became something terrifying and wrong, not quite what the heralds themselves are. Instead of trying to create a powerful spren to lead voidspren and bonds (thus creating his own 'knights radiants') he managed to create something else entirely by accident, which could imply the flaws Odium has and the misconception he had about everything on Roshar.

Dalinar's change in behaviour towards the end of Oathbringer shocked Odium, since Odium thought Dalinar would give in. This could imply something much deeper in humans that Odium failed to grasp, which is why the Unmade became so twisted. 

Perhaps that could explain why Moash was commanded to kill Jezrien, maybe Odium wants to find out something more about the Heralds, something he is unaware of. Or maybe Odium has found a new way  to try and recreate the heralds in his own vision, to counter the failed attempt with the unmade? I don't know ofc, just theorising. 

Edited by QefkaRetro
1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

While Karger is right in pointing out that the Unmade aren't quite what you suggested they are, I'm terrified and fascinated by your bit of theory on the dagger. If it really is made of Odium's god metal (due to it being described as "whitish gold" and those colors being heavily prevalent in Odium's physical appearances), then I could totally see something as malicious and chaotic as that being part of it's abilities. At the very least, I could see it having some sort of... effect on an Honorspren, or a windrunner's Nahel Bond... Something like that. Something weird and unexpected.

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 minutes ago, Halyo_Alex said:

 At the very least, I could see it having some sort of... effect on an Honorspren, or a windrunner's Nahel Bond... Something like that. Something weird and unexpected.

Yes! Exactly! I still like to believe that Odium has tried and failed in past to recreate the Heralds and the Knights Radiants, and over time, he has been trying to find new ways to understand and recreate everything on Roshar. It would be nice if the Unmade are an attempt to 'make' the Heralds in some way, only heavily failed and flawed, thus creating something else entirely. And Odium is still 'trying' to recreate various important artifacts on Roshar. 

Even if the knife doesn't have a direct effect on the Radiants, i'd like to think it gives Odium more of an understanding of the Herald. Which Odium could somehow re-use later. 

I just find it too strange that the Unmade can be trapped in a perfect gemstone, etc, and now a Herald has been trapped in some kind of Gemstone. For something that aren't meant to be counterparts, they certainly are having similarities. 

Edited by QefkaRetro
2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, QefkaRetro said:

Yes! Exactly! I still like to believe that Odium has tried and failed in past to recreate the Heralds and the Knights Radiants, and over time, he has been trying to find new ways to understand and recreate everything on Roshar. It would be nice if the Unmade are an attempt to 'make' the Heralds in some way, only heavily failed and flawed, thus creating something else entirely. And Odium is still 'trying' to recreate various important artifacts on Roshar. 

Even if the knife doesn't have a direct effect on the Radiants, i'd like to think it gives Odium more of an understanding of the Herald. Which Odium could somehow re-use later. 

I just find it too strange that the Unmade can be trapped in a perfect gemstone, etc, and now a Herald has been trapped in some kind of Gemstone. For something that aren't meant to be counterparts, they certainly are having similarities. 

(Emphasis added)

Yeah, the fact that it happened almost at the same time (considering the timespan we're talking about here) almost makes me wonder if Odium meant for the Thrill to get captured, to see what it would take so that he could replicate it forcibly (possibly with the aid of his god-metal in the blade of the knife) with a Herald.

Wait.
The heralds are cognitive shadows. Humans can bond to Cognitive Shadows like a spren.

Does Odium want Moash to forcibly bond Jezrien??

Damnation, if THAT'S what he has in mind... Would that give Moash the powers Jezrien innately has?? Does that include returning to Braize on death? :blink:

2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Jezrien's blade, Jezrien's (hopefully sane influence and memories on Moash)+ Bridge 4 memories and friendships... that smells like a redemption arc to me. If Dalinar can change from being a tyrant to a diplomat and bonding the Storm Father. Who knows about Moash. Someone is gonna give them 20 years to prepare by going to Braize. I know this line of thinking isn't original to me, and I know lots of people would hate a redemption arc. But a strengthened oath pact is the way to go. Get a breather, get organized and then invade Braize. It occurs to me that in Vorin theology, the Heralds after Aharietiam are said to have continued the fight to reclaim the Traquiline Halls. So what if in the second 5 books that is what they do? Maybe new heralds (some of the current main characters, bonded to the cognitive shadows of heralds take the fight to the fused for a change. I think one thing that could happen, for people that think bonding a cognitive shadow of a herald is stupid, this is exactly what Dalinar did. He has bonded what is left of Tanivast. Fuse Jezrien with a wind spren or honor spren, no clue how...dead shard Blades+trapped herald in a gem. 

 

Nice theory @Halyo_Alex & @QefkaRetro

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 hours ago, QefkaRetro said:

Is it possible for a shard to splinter themselves? 

Sure.  Honor used to do it all the time.  That is where honorspren used to come from.

16 hours ago, QefkaRetro said:

could the voidspren be splinters of odium?

Yep that is where they come from.  As Pattern says Spren are the shattered power of Honor, Cultivation, and Odium.

16 hours ago, QefkaRetro said:

Dalinar's change in behaviour towards the end of Oathbringer shocked Odium, since Odium thought Dalinar would give in. This could imply something much deeper in humans that Odium failed to grasp, which is why the Unmade became so twisted. 

Odium is a shard.  His intent warps his perception.  He finds it hard to understand people who refuse to give into hatred.

16 hours ago, QefkaRetro said:

Perhaps that could explain why Moash was commanded to kill Jezrien, maybe Odium wants to find out something more about the Heralds, something he is unaware of. Or maybe Odium has found a new way  to try and recreate the heralds in his own vision, to counter the failed attempt with the unmade? I don't know ofc, just theorising. 

A lot went on there that we don't understand.  Your in the same boat as the rest of us and that makes your theories pretty much as valid as anyone else's.

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Generally i do find it weird that there is mention of the tranquiline halls and we know little about it other than the fact they need to be reclaimed. it Vorinism it says that the Tranquiline halls was the original place where mankind lives. In Oathbringer we discovered that humans are not native to Roshar, they came from destroying their own home... I assume this is referring to the Tranquiline halls being destroyed by the use of surges. 
 

But it also says the Tranquiline halls need to be reclaimed.. reclaimed from who? Voidbringers? 
 

This leaves me a little confused, because I’m now questioning what the Tranquiline halls actually are, is it the original home for the humans or something else entirely? 

Are the Tranquiline halls on Ashyn? 

Edited by QefkaRetro
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, QefkaRetro said:

Generally i do find it weird that there is mention of the tranquiline halls and we know little about it other than the fact they need to be reclaimed. it Vorinism it says that the Tranquiline halls was the original place where mankind lives. In Oathbringer we discovered that humans are not native to Roshar, they came from destroying their own home... I assume this is referring to the Tranquiline halls being destroyed by the use of surges. 
 

But it also says the Tranquiline halls need to be reclaimed.. reclaimed from who? Voidbringers? 
 

This leaves me a little confused, because I’m now questioning what the Tranquiline halls actually are, is it the original home for the humans or something else entirely? 

Are the Tranquiline halls on Ashyn? 

The original home of the humans. But it's twisted by history from a place that was destroyed(made uninhabitable on some level) to a place that was taken from them and could be won back. It's a lot easier to spin being put upon by your enemies than that you stole their land because you ruined your own in justifying war and oppression. (Especially because the actual enemy is Odium, not the humans or singers and at some point Odium switched sides and lost. I'm sure that story will be told in the back half.) 

Edited by Aminar
1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Brandon has confirmed that there are only 9 Unmade (or at least, for sure not ten).

Quote

Pagerunner

The Starfall vision. Ten Deaths, referring to the Midnight Essence. That's what the one Radiant said, they're the Ten Deaths. Is that the Unmade, the Ten Deaths.

Brandon Sanderson

Well, there's nine Unmade, so...

JordanCon 2018 (April 22, 2018)
Quote

Argent (paraphrased)

Is the number of Unmade fixed?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

Yes.

Argent (paraphrased)

Is it ten, is it ten, is it ten, is it ten, is it ten?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

Is it ten? No, it's not ten.

Words of Radiance Chicago signing (March 22, 2014)

 

Quote

Ever since the Oathpact was abandoned, only 1 herald went to Braize, being Taln. This means there are 9 Heralds left on Roshar, incidentally there are 9 Unmade. I think there is a link there… I do believe that there are 10 Unmade, and even though sources indicate that they have existed on Roshar since before the Desolations, I debate how true this is (backed up by the clouded history).

I think, in previous Desolations when the Heralds were trapped on Braize, they were being tormented and fighting against a specific Unmade (one per Herald, and its Voidspren). After the Oathpact was broken, and only Taln went to Braize, his Unmade went with him. Thus, 9 Unmade were on Roshar with the 9 Heralds, and 1 on Braize with Taln.

We see directly from Dalinar's visions that the MIdnight Mother was on Roshar between Desolations, making Midnight Essence.

Quote

The knight sniffed dismissively. “Voidbringers? These? No, this was Midnight Essence, though who released it is still a mystery.” She looked to the side, expression growing distant. “Harkaylain says the Desolation is close, and he is not often wrong. He—”

The bit that was captured in the gemstone, imo, is the piece of Jezrien's spiritweb that bound him to the Oathpact. Jezrien himself is dead and gone. I don't think that the investiture in there is going to grant such powerful abilities that you mentioned. It seems way too OP and a bit Deus Ex to me.

Anyway, if Odium wanted to, he could certainly make his version of Honorblades any time he wanted. He wouldn't need anyone else to make them.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

One thing to remember with Odium is that he does not like giving up his investiture. That is likely why he has lost contest after contest. Honor and Cultivation gave up more of their power to preserve Roshar. Odium seeing them sufficiently weakened kills Honor. Once he kills Cultivation he will need to destroy the planet to reclaim the investiture he has invested (sorry) in the planet/system. This is why he tells Dalinar he can not leave as he once thought, he needs to reclaim his power. 

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Master Silver said:

One thing to remember with Odium is that he does not like giving up his investiture. That is likely why he has lost contest after contest. Honor and Cultivation gave up more of their power to preserve Roshar. Odium seeing them sufficiently weakened kills Honor. Once he kills Cultivation he will need to destroy the planet to reclaim the investiture he has invested (sorry) in the planet/system. This is why he tells Dalinar he can not leave as he once thought, he needs to reclaim his power. 

Hence why I think the Jesrien knife is going to be... tweaked, modified, corrupted, by Odium, to minimize the amount of investiture he needs to expend to achieve whatever idea he had in mind that needs it.

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Interesting points about the knife. Perhaps it was acting as a hemalurgic spike? The red cloud around Scadrial indicates co-opted or corrupted investiture, and our leading candidates for it are Odium, who has a vendetta but is scared of Sazed because he holds two very powerful shards, and Autonomy, who has (I think) been known to help Odium in the past and to whom the name Trell is connected, so it’s perfectly possible that odium knows about hemalurgy. In addition, Moash wouldn’t necessarily need to have intent; (Spoiler for Hero of Ages)

Spoiler

When Spook gets stabbed through the pewterarm,

It was Ruin’s intent that created the spike, not the other person. In addition, with the god metal and the gemstone, it might not have mattered as much if Moash hit the right bond point, but Odium could have guided that a bit if necessary.

As for Odium not understanding Dalinar’s actions, that is also partially Cultivation’s interference too. She knew exactly how to trim his memories to make sure he grew from the pain, which might be a bit of a foreign concept to Odium.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My theory is that the knife is combination of Hemalurgy and the unnamed magic system that Fabrials belong to. Like it's almost certainly made out of Odium's god metal- which I believe we should probably be calling Raysium- And stabbing somebody with a godmetal knife in order to drain their soul sounds extremely hemalurgic. But it's also got that gem in the pommel which lit up once Jezrien died, which is characteristic of Fabrials. 

Maybe the idea is to make sure the Herald's soul is stored in the Gem, rather than the knife, like how Hemalurgy would normally work. That way, they can swap out the gem every time they knife a herald, and so they can get the job done with a single Raysium dagger, and Odium doesn't have to spend the Investiture needed to make a full set of ten.

Edited by Gilphon
1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
44 minutes ago, Gilphon said:

My theory is that the knife is combination of Hemalurgy and the unnamed magic system that Fabrials belong to. Like it's almost certainly made out of Odium's god metal- which I believe we should probably be calling Raysium- And stabbing somebody with a godmetal knife in order to drain their soul sounds extremely hemalurgic. But it's also got that gem in the pommel which lit up once Jezrien died, which is characteristic of Fabrials. 

Maybe the idea is to make sure the Herald's soul is stored in the Gem, rather than the knife, like how Hemalurgy would normally work. That way, they can swap out the gem every time they knife a herald, and so they can get the job done with a single Raysium dagger, and Odium doesn't have to spend the Investiture needed to make a full set of ten.

And then put the gems into an actual fabrial to do something?

...I just got this horrible idea that they'll put the gems on the corresponding Honorblade to upgrade them somehow. Maybe they won't do it right away for Moash, but if he proves his worth... Uh oh.

2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Oh wow. That's a terrifying thought. It also sounds cool and theoretically possible, so that's three points in it's favour. 

But to be honest, I find it more likely that they'd just toss the gems into the ocean or something- their priority is gonna be making sure nobody ever manages to get Jezrien's soul out of the gem, so they'd want it somewhere hidden and inaccessible, not on an obviously important weapon. 

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Halyo_Alex said:

...I just got this horrible idea that they'll put the gems on the corresponding Honorblade to upgrade them somehow. Maybe they won't do it right away for Moash, but if he proves his worth... Uh oh.

Maybe use it as an unlock?  Give Moash the power of a Herald?

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
43 minutes ago, Karger said:

Maybe use it as an unlock?  Give Moash the power of a Herald?

What would that entail? Being able to pull stormlight directly from Honor? But he's Splintered, so... Maybe just the "return to Braize on death" thing, which would be a GOOD thing for Moash, since he's of Odium's forces now.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, Halyo_Alex said:

What would that entail? Being able to pull stormlight directly from Honor? But he's Splintered, so... Maybe just the "return to Braize on death" thing, which would be a GOOD thing for Moash, since he's of Odium's forces now.

He would be unkillable (bad?) as well as able to pull from Honor(he may be dead but his power is still around) as well as "more then man understand a Herald almost" whatever the stormfather means.  Perhaps he gains some passive benefits. 

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Gilphon said:

My theory is that the knife is combination of Hemalurgy and the unnamed magic system that Fabrials belong to. Like it's almost certainly made out of Odium's god metal- which I believe we should probably be calling Raysium- And stabbing somebody with a godmetal knife in order to drain their soul sounds extremely hemalurgic. But it's also got that gem in the pommel which lit up once Jezrien died, which is characteristic of Fabrials. 

Maybe the idea is to make sure the Herald's soul is stored in the Gem, rather than the knife, like how Hemalurgy would normally work. That way, they can swap out the gem every time they knife a herald, and so they can get the job done with a single Raysium dagger, and Odium doesn't have to spend the Investiture needed to make a full set of ten.

I think it's a Nightblood like thing, I mean, it bleeds smoke, and leaves a blackened wound. Also it should be called Odiumium or OdIUM because why not.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
41 minutes ago, Frustration said:

I think it's a Nightblood like thing, I mean, it bleeds smoke, and leaves a blackened wound. Also it should be called Odiumium or OdIUM because why not.

No thank you.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, Gilphon said:

My theory is that the knife is combination of Hemalurgy and the unnamed magic system that Fabrials belong to. Like it's almost certainly made out of Odium's god metal- which I believe we should probably be calling Raysium- And stabbing somebody with a godmetal knife in order to drain their soul sounds extremely hemalurgic. But it's also got that gem in the pommel which lit up once Jezrien died, which is characteristic of Fabrials. 

Maybe the idea is to make sure the Herald's soul is stored in the Gem, rather than the knife, like how Hemalurgy would normally work. That way, they can swap out the gem every time they knife a herald, and so they can get the job done with a single Raysium dagger, and Odium doesn't have to spend the Investiture needed to make a full set of ten.

According to Brandon, he wouldn't consider it Hemalurgy.

Quote

kalamitous_emoashions

Have we seen any evidence of Hemalurgy on Roshar? And, as sort of an addendum, given the end of Oathbringer, was what happened to Jezrien Hemalurgy?

Brandon Sanderson

There are certain cosmere philosophers that would count it. I would divide it as two separate things that are using similar fundamentals... I wouldn't call it myself, but there are people who would disagree with me in-world. Have we seen evidence? I would say no evidence that is easily-- easy to pick out.

kalamitous_emoashions

But it's there?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes, there are people with Hemalurgy who have been to Roshar. I'm pretty sure they've been on-screen.

Oathbringer London signing (Nov. 28, 2017)

 

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I seem to be leaning on the idea that the soul in the gemstone is going to act like some kind of dead spren, and when combined with the honorblade, it could grant advanced powers. 

I heard on a Sanderson livestream before, I can't remember the exact question, but someone asked 'Can you bond 2 spren and gain the surges of 2 orders?' and Sanderson responded with something along the lines of 'Good question, RAFO'. 

It makes me wonder, what would happen if Jezrians gemstone was combined with a regular shardblade, or better still, an honorblade from a different herald? We know that shardblades have a gemstone in the pommel, don't remember honorblades having one, or at least, a gemstone isn't needed to bond one. 

I'm just wondering if this could be any implication to mixed orders, if not through bonding spren, through gemstone and honorblade/shardblade manipulation. 

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I would say that if it was Jezrien's spiritweb that was captured, it would give whoever manages to do something with that stone the powers of a Herald, but not of a Windrunner.

As I understand (and could be wrong) the ability to control the surges come from the Honorblade, the surges are not innate abilities from the Heralds.

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.