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Mid-Range Game 42: The Auction of Lord Winsting


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4 minutes ago, Experience said:

@TJ Shade, I was under the impression that a global tie meant a tie between every living player, such as when there are no votes.

Wait is that what it means? I really did't know. 

2 minutes ago, Kynedath said:

However an escort could definitely have roleblocked them to cast more suspicion on them. Especially if it was Bleeder. I can see a scenario where bleeder is also an escort or bribed an escort or something so that Sart couldn't do their ability.

This is actually brilliant. 

18 minutes ago, Kynedath said:

Yep, I can do that. Could I request bodyguard protection this cycle? If Sart is bleeder then they'll want to kill me to keep me quiet. And if they aren't then real bleeder will want to kill me to frame Sart.

How does it work actually? You send your target and you get the result after the cycle ends? Or do you get it immediately, as soon as Joe reads your request?

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3 minutes ago, Bugsy said:

Uhh. How would Bleeder have 'bribed an escort', out of curiosity? Is that a game mechanic that I'm just missing, or do you mean actually bribing the player? :P 

like bribing them with info, or maybe they just pocketed someone real good. I mean it's not a fleshed out idea, but it's technically possible! Likely? now that's a different story. But Bleeder could still be an escort themselves.

1 minute ago, TJ Shade said:

This is actually brilliant. 

How does it work actually? You send your target and you get the result after the cycle ends? Or do you get it immediately, as soon as Joe reads your request?

Thank you!

I send in my target this cycle and I get the results at the beginning of next cycle.

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7 minutes ago, Kynedath said:

However an escort could definitely have roleblocked them to cast more suspicion on them. Especially if it was Bleeder. I can see a scenario where bleeder is also an escort or bribed an escort or something so that Sart couldn't do their ability.

This is the idea I had. The problem is now Bleeder!Sart can now claim that he was roleblocked. This could be true, but I feel like a lynch is the only way to know for sure. I really do hope that bleeder does not have access to a roleblock, but I can totally see it happening. 

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Just now, Experience said:

This is the idea I had. The problem is now Bleeder!Sart can now claim that he was roleblocked. This could be true, but I feel like a lynch is the only way to know for sure. I really do hope that bleeder does not have access to a roleblock, but I can totally see it happening. 

I can scan Sart again this cycle. So long as I am alive next cycle we will have our answer as to whether they're bleeder or not. That way we don't have to use the lynch to kill them.

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3 minutes ago, Kynedath said:

I can scan Sart again this cycle. So long as I am alive next cycle we will have our answer as to whether they're bleeder or not. That way we don't have to use the lynch to kill them.

The problem with that is if bleeder indeed has access to a roleblock. If Sart is bleeder and has a roleblock, then if we don't lynch them this turn they could just roleblock you, letting them live for even longer. 

On the other hand, If sart isn't bleeder, then if the real bleeder has a roleblock they would probably just roleblock sart to look bad. Wait. They would probably just kill you to get rid of you. 

EDIT: Bleeder could just kill you to get rid of you and make it so we don't get the info.

Edited by Experience
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Bleeder may have the ability to redirect actions too, so we might not find if Sart is Bleeder after all. 

It all comes down to this. Sart or Bleeder trying to frame Sart.

EDIT: That's why I think Sart's gotta go. I'll make my vote later after some more discussion. 

Edited by TJ Shade
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Just now, TJ Shade said:

Bleeder may have the ability to redirect actions too, so we might not find if Sart is Bleeder after all. 

It all comes down to this. Sart or Bleeder trying to frame Sart.

This is why I think that lynching sart is the best option. That way we can actually get information.

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@Experience If Sart is bleeder then they probably wouldn't have a roleblock though, because the roleblock aspect of this come into play if Sart was roleblocked, not if he had a roleblock.

If bleeder isn't Sart and has a roleblock, then if they kill me I'm hoping I have body guard protection. If they roleblock me then I see it as clearing Sart since the only reason someone would roleblock me is to make sure I can't scan Sart again, something only Bleeder would want. But if roleblocking me clears Sart then what's the pont of roleblocking me? It would be better to kill someone else in an attempt to kill Winsting.

@TJ Shade If Bleeder can roleblock then they wouldn't be able to redirect as well. They already have Bleeder as one role, and either escort or extortionist would take the other role (if one even does) but not both.

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Just now, TJ Shade said:

Doesn't matter. Either Extortionist or Escort ability would prevent you from getting the answer. 

Or a kill if a bodyguard doesn't protect, though I think this is the least likely because bleeder would benefit more from killing someone less likely to have protection.

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25 minutes ago, TJ Shade said:

Villager! (or at least) Non-Breeder! Kynedath confirmed.

Not confirmed. They could have gotten the information some other way without a scan, or could have scanned on a different cycle. And something still seems super off about them to me.

23 minutes ago, Kynedath said:

I can scan Sart again this cycle. So long as I am alive next cycle we will have our answer as to whether they're bleeder or not. That way we don't have to use the lynch to kill them.

I REALLY don’t like this. There’s too many ways for this to go wrong if Bleeder interferes, and if you or Sart are Bleeder (my two biggest suspicions), either of you could easily play this to your advantage. If neither of you are, Bleeder could easily kill you to frame Sart, kill Sart to frame you, or basically anything else.

13 minutes ago, Kynedath said:

@Experience If Sart is bleeder then they probably wouldn't have a roleblock though, because the roleblock aspect of this come into play if Sart was roleblocked, not if he had a roleblock.

If bleeder isn't Sart and has a roleblock, then if they kill me I'm hoping I have body guard protection. If they roleblock me then I see it as clearing Sart since the only reason someone would roleblock me is to make sure I can't scan Sart again, something only Bleeder would want. But if roleblocking me clears Sart then what's the pont of roleblocking me? It would be better to kill someone else in an attempt to kill Winsting.

@TJ Shade If Bleeder can roleblock then they wouldn't be able to redirect as well. They already have Bleeder as one role, and either escort or extortionist would take the other role (if one even does) but not both.

I really don’t trust this. Some genuine flaws with your plan were brought up, and you largely brushed them aside. It’s not helping my suspicion at all.

3 minutes ago, TJ Shade said:

Also, how often does the SK actually win in a game like this?

I don’t think an SK has ever won a game like this. The closest I can think of is when Amanuensis managed to kill all the GMs in QF14, which was an “everyone loses” sort of situation.

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50 minutes ago, Bugsy said:

Alright, among your roleclaims there are two (Shard of Reading and Coda) that weren't previously public knowledge. @Shard of Reading and @Coda, are you two willing to confirm these reads? And people who've been talking in PMs a lot, is there any way Kynedath could have gotten this information from the grapevine / was it already known by anyone who shared it? @little wilson, I figure you might be able to help with that. 

not from pms to me knowledge. however as tess pointed out last cycle while analysisizing the pyros posts kynedath seems very likely to be evils.

shard also seems very likely to be evils. so team couldve given kyne alibi for every cycle having him claim to have scanned teammates on cycles he dont got real alibi.

me think kyne evil. me dont think kyne bleeder.

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13 minutes ago, TJ Shade said:

Kill all the GMs? How do you kill the Game Masters?

Someone sent in an order to do so, and Joe just went along with it. Eventually all 3 got killed, and anarchy happened :P 

5 minutes ago, little wilson said:

not from pms to me knowledge. however as tess pointed out last cycle while analysisizing the pyros posts kynedath seems very likely to be evils.

shard also seems very likely to be evils. so team couldve given kyne alibi for every cycle having him claim to have scanned teammates on cycles he dont got real alibi.

me think kyne evil. me dont think kyne bleeder.

Hmmmmm. Certainly possible. There’s just consistently something off about their posts and plans. I think Sart is my priority this cycle, but I would be more than ok with a lynch on Kynedath too

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Okay, let me try to put it another way then, I don't think that Sart is bleeder. I don't plan on lynching them over it yet. So I plan on scanning Sart anyways, because that's what I can do with my action. If it works then I've cleared Sart and you all don't have to use a lunch to find out. But if it doesn't then there is more to talk about, more shenanigans going on to discuss, and more than likely Start will be lynched then.

There isn't much else I can do with my action than try to carry out this plan, so I was hoping to have support in it. But if not, then I may full well die trying to carry it out.

@Bugsy I hope that explains why I've been talking about my plan like I have.

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12 minutes ago, Kynedath said:

Okay, let me try to put it another way then, I don't think that Sart is bleeder. I don't plan on lynching them over it yet. So I plan on scanning Sart anyways, because that's what I can do with my action. If it works then I've cleared Sart and you all don't have to use a lunch to find out. But if it doesn't then there is more to talk about, more shenanigans going on to discuss, and more than likely Start will be lynched then.

There isn't much else I can do with my action than try to carry out this plan, so I was hoping to have support in it. But if not, then I may full well die trying to carry it out.

@Bugsy I hope that explains why I've been talking about my plan like I have.

The thing is, if we can kill Bleeder now, then that is much better then waiting a few more cycles in which bleeder could kill Winsting(Is that how you spell it). I do see what people are saying in their suspicions of you, but I still don't know. I'm feeling like your not bleeder, but not sure if you're elim.

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@Kynedath then who do you think is Bleeder? Here is why Sart seems the best option to me:

  • The alibi he gave could be accurate along with the Bleeder role
  • He said he would use his ability last cycle to prove he isn't Bleeder and he didn't (unless he was roleblocked)
  • He has given multiple names as Bleeder suspects echoed by no one else and jumped on HH at the end of yesterday

Your plan is fine. But I think that it would be smarter (sarter :ph34r:) to get rid of Sart. If he is Bleeder and your plan proves him to be, we've given him an extra cycle and an extra chance to get Winsting. I also think it would be smart, for any extortionists out there, village or elim, to target Sart's 'bleeder-kill action' specifically, as I think Pyro has suggested this before.

(Ninja'd by Experience)

Echoing everyone else, I doubt you're Bleeder but I think you are an elim.

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So here's a plan. I'm assuming Kynedath non-Bleeder.

He scans Sart for the second time. For this to happen successfully he shouldn't die, get role-blocked or redirected. 

If we were to trust Kyne's scan, Sart is a Smuggler. Hence, he can't extort or escort Kyne. The only thing he can do is kill Kyne. So we'll give him protection. 

If his Kyne's action gets role-blocked or redirected, Sart couldn't have done that as his secondary action is Smuggling, so it must Bleeder who's trying to frame Sart.

EDIT: Can we really risk losing another villager to a mislynch if Sart is not Bleeder?

Edited by TJ Shade
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2 minutes ago, TJ Shade said:

So here's a plan. I'm assuming Kynedath non-Bleeder.

He scans Sart for the second time. For this to happen successfully he shouldn't die, get role-blocked or redirected. 

If we were to trust Kyne's scan, Sart is a Smuggler. Hence, he can't extort or escort Kyne. The only thing he can do is kill Kyne. So we'll give him protection. 

If his Kyne's action gets role-blocked or redirected, Sart couldn't have done that as his secondary action is Smuggling, so it must Bleeder who's trying to frame Sart.

We don't even know is Bleeder can role-block/redirect. if Bleeder is Sart then Bleeder can't roblock or redirect. But Bleeder could be a renowned, a gossip, or anything else that wouldn't cause this. Heck, Bleeder might not even have a secondary role. In the case of this, which is pretty likely, then Kynedath's plan doesn't really work as described.

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6 minutes ago, TJ Shade said:

So here's a plan. I'm assuming Kynedath non-Bleeder.

He scans Sart for the second time. For this to happen successfully he shouldn't die, get role-blocked or redirected. 

If we were to trust Kyne's scan, Sart is a Smuggler. Hence, he can't extort or escort Kyne. The only thing he can do is kill Kyne. So we'll give him protection. 

If his Kyne's action gets role-blocked or redirected, Sart couldn't have done that as his secondary action is Smuggling, so it must Bleeder who's trying to frame Sart.

EDIT: Can we really risk losing another villager to a mislynch if Sart is not Bleeder?

This might not work because of how much trust you have to put into a lot of people, many of whom you likely cannot be completely certain of.

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Just now, Matrim's_Dice said:

We don't even know is Bleeder can role-block/redirect. if Bleeder is Sart then Bleeder can't roblock or redirect. But Bleeder could be a renowned, a gossip, or anything else that wouldn't cause this. Heck, Bleeder might not even have a secondary role. In the case of this, which is pretty likely, then Kynedath's plan doesn't really work as described.

If Bleeder isn't Extortionist/ Escort, much better then! Kynedath gets can answer to his second scan on Sart. If it's Bartender, he's Bleeder. If not, he's being framed. 

 

9 minutes ago, Matrim's_Dice said:

for any extortionists out there, village or elim, to target Sart's 'bleeder-kill action' specifically, as I think Pyro has suggested this before.

Also, this is a bad idea. What if they redirect it to Winsting by accident? This can only work with elim Extortionists assuming Pyro has told them Winsting's identity. Village Extortionists might redirect it to Winsting by accident. 

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