How Rock was able to draw a Shardbow.

[Spinner16]

So at the end of Oathbringer, Lunamor was able to draw and fire a Grandbow straight through Amaram's black heart. How the flip did he do this? I have no clue if anyone has done the math on the draw weights of Shardbows, but they fire arrows "as thick as three fingers", so the strength required must be incredible. They require augmenter fabrials in order to avoid shattering, and previously only people in Shardplate can fire them. I believe that Rock's miraculous shot was made possible through his status as an alaii’iku, his ability to see and communicate with spren. The augmenter fabrials involved with the bow enhance the durability of the metal, its tensile strength. If Rock was able to contact the spren, and maybe influence them with Stormlight, could he convince them to make the Shardbow more pliable? This would be like a weird offshoot of Soulcasting, where negotiations with spren lead to powerful affects. This might also relate to Tension in some way, too bad we know nothing about it.

So bottom line is I'm saying that Rock somehow talked to the spren inside the fabrial and convinced/bribed/bullied. them to make the bow easier to draw. I wish I had more evidence, but we have so little info on both Rock and Fabrials. Perhaps part of Rock's conflict after Thaylen Field came from cussing out spren (Tensionspren?), which he reveres. What does this mean for the future of Lunamor? Well, I would like to see him and Navani team up to restore Urithiru. Not only would any interactions between those two be pure gold to read, we would get to learn more about spren and fabrials, and the Urithiru light-up scene needs to happen ASAP.

 

[Emerald_Mage]

We know the horneaters are larger and stronger than the Alethi. That, combined with the increase in physical strength that comes from holding stormlight, is my guess for why he was able to draw it.

Also, making the bow more pliable would decrease both the power and range of the shardbow, which seemed unaffected when he shot it.

[Emerald_Mage]

6 minutes ago, Halyo_Alex said:

because Stormlight alone DOESN'T enhance your strength.

Really? It definitely seems like it does. Like how the bridge felt lighter while everyone was charged with stormlight as they ran to pick up Rock's family.

8 minutes ago, Halyo_Alex said:

Why do so many people assume that's a thing

It's the simplest and most straightforward answer. Granted, this is a Sanderson work so that logic doesn't always apply.

[Emerald_Mage]

Just now, Halyo_Alex said:

Shardplate is what enhances strength

Yes, Shardplate does enhance strength. However, there also haven't been any surgebinders we know of that could test the theory while shardbows have been a thing.

3 minutes ago, Halyo_Alex said:

It's specifically pointed out multiple times throughout the books so far

I don't remember the books saying that stormlight doesn't. Could you point me to where it does? Also, doesn't Kal lift Rock in the chasms? I think it says that he wouldn't be able to do that normally.

[Knight of Iron]

The Coppermind as it currently stands states (under "Surgebinder"):

Quote

Stormlight also increases the physical capabilities of the Surgebinder's body far beyond regular human levels. The Surgebinder gains superhuman strength, speed, endurance, stamina, and healing of both body and soul.

And there is this WOB I think is somewhat relevant.

Quote

NotBurtReynolds

Can Stormlight give enough extra strength that a humanoid could use a Shardbow w/out Plate?

Brandon Sanderson

Not normally.

General Signed Books 2018 (Feb. 21, 2018)

 

Edited May 15, 2020 by Knight of Iron

[Karger]

Rock has "special blessings" according to his interlude in OB.  They probably relate to his singer blood and potentially relate to him swimming in one of the horneater pools.

[SingingMosaic]

This for some reason got my brain turning over stuff about Rock and now one of my new favorite ideas is Rock is another Bondsmith.

Also for some reason I'm only seeing half of this thread? Interesting...

[Aminar]

Yeah. Between Stormlight, Rock's recent physical fitness regimen, and his general stature the shardbow never felt out of line. The guy who played the mountain just dead lifted over half a ton. Rock's his his size and has been doing hard labor for months. And being big let's you put on a lot of muscle. I'm about 6 foot 3 and make most people look pretty small. Rock has somewhere between 6 and 9 inches on me. 

[AonEne]

3 hours ago, SingingMosaic said:

Also for some reason I'm only seeing half of this thread? Interesting... 

I think the other person hid their posts because they were losing an argument... 

[Halyo_Alex]

21 minutes ago, AonEne said:

I think the other person hid their posts because they were losing an argument... 

I hid them because I felt stupid for even thinking I was right for once, like an idiot.

[AonEne]

2 minutes ago, Halyo_Alex said:

I hid them because I felt stupid for even thinking I was right for once, like an idiot.

Hey, you’re not stupid. Everyone gets stuff wrong sometimes - it’s just human. I mean, I was wrong just now in guessing why you hid them. Don’t worry about it  

[Honorless]

I think Rock's Horneater blood played a part in this, as did Stormlight, but the scene was set up in a way that makes me think that the scene was meant to indicate that Horneaters would be a focus point in the upcoming books. With Moelach going there, Cultivation's Perpendicularity being there (and being blocked by Odium's forces) and Numuhukumakiaki'aialunamor's family making an appearance and an upcoming novella...

@Halyo_Alex, don't worry about it. We all get stuff wrong sometimes. Like my Warbreaker Returned topic *shrugs*

Edited May 15, 2020 by R J

[Hen]

NotBurtReynolds

Can Stormlight give enough extra strength that a humanoid could use a Shardbow w/out Plate?

Brandon Sanderson

Not normally.

 

I think the "Not normally" is an exception for Rock. Because of his status as a squire and his unique bond to all spren ( alaii’iku ) he was able to draw enough power to draw the bow that most squires could "not normally" do. I also think rock is going to become like the Lorax for the spren. Its a completely unfounded theory, but he hasn't bonded with any spren in particular, so I think that instead of becoming a radiant, he will speak for the spren in ways the other radients can't, because radients spren have been seen to have limited memories. Probs won't happen but I really want a Lorax moment for rock so I guess its wishful thinking

[+Q10fanatic]

I had forgotten about this scene until I re-read WoK, but Rock picks up a tree trunk and swings it at Kaladin when they are training in the chasms. Rock, Moash, and someone else (Teft?) are sparring with Kal 3 v1 and he's frustrating them so Rock starts actually trying. Kal is shocked by his strength (and then forgets about it, I guess) but it clearly shows that Rock is far stronger than he lets on.

[MDA65]

This is a long shot, but part of me believes it has something to do with some metalic art. Maybe he is a Thug? Altough, I don't remember any mention of there being pewter in Roshar.

Anyway, your idea of it being due to his interactions with spren is more logical. Now I want to read a Lunamor + Navani chapter too.

[Rushu42]

2 hours ago, MDA65 said:

This is a long shot, but part of me believes it has something to do with some metalic art. Maybe he is a Thug? Altough, I don't remember any mention of there being pewter in Roshar.

The metallic arts are native to Scadrial, so I don't believe that a Horneater could naturally be a Thug. It seems far more likely that it was merely due to the combination of being a strong guy and having Stormlight.

[Aminar]

7 minutes ago, Rushu42 said:

The metallic arts are native to Scadrial, so I don't believe that a Horneater could naturally be a Thug. It seems far more likely that it was merely due to the combination of being a strong guy and having Stormlight.

Strong not entirely human guy. Think about how strong warform Listeners are leaping chasms. He's got that running in his gene pool. 

[MDA65]

1 hour ago, Rushu42 said:

The metallic arts are native to Scadrial

They are. Although Cultivation's perpendicularity is on the Horneater Peaks, so they are the most probable people to have worldhopper heritage. Then again, it doesn't seem this has been foreshadowed, so it is very unlikely.

1 hour ago, Aminar said:

Strong not entirely human guy. Think about how strong warform Listeners are leaping chasms. He's got that running in his gene pool. 

This is a good point I didn't take into account, and is a very reasonable explanation.

Man... I wish it was 2021 already.

[cfphelps]

In the same scene as Rock shooting the arrow doesn't Kaladin even remark that Stormlight doesn't enhance strength that much? Are we assuming he's an unreliable narrator in this case, or that perhaps different orders get a different balance of the benefits from Stormlight and maybe Rock will be something else instead? 

Also noticing that the bridge felt so much lighter might just be Stormlight enhancing endurance and healing any body damage from the strain, similar to how it allowed Dalinar to lift the stone chunks with full strength and Stormlight healed the damage the effort did on his body. The fact that the entire bridge crew was able to draw on the endurance of Stormlight would make carrying it much easier. 

I'm in the camp that there's more to this than just Stormlight, and that something special about Rock either let's him gain more of a benefit from Stormlight than normal, or something special about him not related to Stormlight makes him way stronger (at least compared to Alethi norms) . Like someone said, during sparring Kaladin was shocked by his strength and that would presumably be before Rock was using Stormlight even unconsciously or before Kaladin had progressed enough to have squires, so that to me is hinting at more than Stormlight. 

Edited May 16, 2020 by cfphelps

[Slowfast]

Couldn't he have just used gravitation to make the arrow fall in the direction of the bow string and then just release it to aid the force needed to draw the bow? It feels like a pretty natural use of gravitation, like how Kaladin increased the speed he fell horizontally when attacking that shardbearer in words of radiance? This is just what I assumed when reading it for the first time but IDK.

[Aminar]

3 hours ago, cfphelps said:

In the same scene as Rock shooting the arrow doesn't Kaladin even remark that Stormlight doesn't enhance strength that much? Are we assuming he's an unreliable narrator in this case, or that perhaps different orders get a different balance of the benefits from Stormlight and maybe Rock will be something else instead? 

Also noticing that the bridge felt so much lighter might just be Stormlight enhancing endurance and healing any body damage from the strain, similar to how it allowed Dalinar to lift the stone chunks with full strength and Stormlight healed the damage the effort did on his body. The fact that the entire bridge crew was able to draw on the endurance of Stormlight would make carrying it much easier. 

I'm in the camp that there's more to this than just Stormlight, and that something special about Rock either let's him gain more of a benefit from Stormlight than normal, or something special about him not related to Stormlight makes him way stronger (at least compared to Alethi norms) . Like someone said, during sparring Kaladin was shocked by his strength and that would presumably be before Rock was using Stormlight even unconsciously or before Kaladin had progressed enough to have squires, so that to me is hinting at more than Stormlight. 

Stormlight isn't Pewter strong, but it's substantial enough where Szeth dropped Dalinar with a single punch to the ribs. And Szeth is not some bulky oversized guy. He's small and willowy while Dalinar has been shown to be tough as hell. 

The Description of Stormlight is that it perfects. Rock is huge by Rosharan Alethi Standards which puts him on the scale of humans like Andre The Giant or the Guy who plays The Mountain. Guys that could literally do superhuman feats of Strength. I don't think he's doing anything with Stormlight. I think he's just huge and not quite human. We know the Horneaters were chased into the mountains for being the scariest warriors on the planet. 

As for gravitation, Squires don't seem to have access to surges and Rock hasn't bonded a Spren yet so gravitation isn't the answer. 

[Frustration]

1 hour ago, Aminar said:

As for gravitation, Squires don't seem to have access to surges and Rock hasn't bonded a Spren yet so gravitation isn't the answer. 

Lopen had gravitation in OB before his Oaths, the Squires fly all the time.

[Aminar]

23 minutes ago, Frustration said:

Lopen had gravitation in OB before his Oaths, the Squires fly all the time.

He had a Spren before his Oaths in the same way Kal did. Pretty sure we saw him talking to it before he used Surges. The rest of the Squires have been really close to Kal and seem to be more interlinked with his surge binding from what I remember. The rest were practicing with the Honorblade. That said my memories of that are vague and I just started a reread of OathBringer but 

[mathiau]

31 minutes ago, Aminar said:

He had a Spren before his Oaths in the same way Kal did. Pretty sure we saw him talking to it before he used Surges. The rest of the Squires have been really close to Kal and seem to be more interlinked with his surge binding from what I remember. The rest were practicing with the Honorblade. That said my memories of that are vague and I just started a reread of OathBringer but 

Skybreakers get gravitation before they get sprens

[Knight of Iron]

Lopen was able to take in Stormlight and use the Surges before we found out he had a spren. The spren acts very childish just like Syl did when she and Kal were first interacting, indicating the spren is probably very recent and its full essence is not entirely in the Cognitive Realm. It is reasonable to believe that Lopen got his spren after already being able to use the Surges. And when Kaladin is gone, Lopen is unable to use the Surges as he had been able to do before.