ChickenLiberty

Jezrien and Ash

17 posts in this topic

Here is an excerpt from the prelude:

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Even after all these centuries, Jezrien looked young, like a man barely into his thirtieth year.

 

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Questioner

I have a bit of a problem with the first Desolation timeline. I'm wondering how old were the Heralds when they became Heralds.

Brandon Sanderson

The age that you would see them as when you met them. They basically are the age they look. When they became Heralds, they are the age that they appeared.

Starsight Release Party (Nov. 26, 2019)

So, the age that Jezrien became a Herald at is about 30 (33 in Earth years). Ash is his daughter, and she also became a Herald, which means that Jezrien's age when Ash was born and Ash's age when the Oathpact was made should add up to 30 years. Either, Ash looks like a child or young teen right now, or Jezrien had Ash when he was a young teen. I guess that a possible explanation could be that Jezrien adopted Ash, but either way, this is something very interesting about their history.

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Could be that ash became a Herald later, but that has other implications 

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Posted (edited)

Or he's the heraldic equivalent of Rob Lowe, and always looked younger than his actual age. 

For what it's worth:

 

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Willshaper Wallar

...Were the Heralds alive for the human exodus from Ashyn?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes. They were not Heralds then, but they all made that trip. I believe. My timeline-- You can't nail me down on that one, because it's possible that Ash was born after, but I don't think so.

Skyward Denver signing (Nov. 15, 2018)

 

  Edited by Quantus
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22 minutes ago, ChickenLiberty said:

Even after all these centuries, Jezrien looked young, like a man barely into his thirtieth year.

I'm not sure this is explicitly saying that Jezrien is only 30.  Kalak is saying that Jezrien looks young, like a man barely in his thirtieth year.  It is quite possible he is in his forties but just looks younger.

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Just now, Nuatoma said:

I'm not sure this is explicitly saying that Jezrien is only 30.  Kalak is saying that Jezrien looks young, like a man barely in his thirtieth year.  It is quite possible he is in his forties but just looks younger.

That's what I assumed at first, but Brandon says that they were the age that they look, which means Kalak's description is probably close to accurate, although it's likely that it's not exact.

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4 minutes ago, ChickenLiberty said:

That's what I assumed at first, but Brandon says that they were the age that they look, which means Kalak's description is probably close to accurate, although it's likely that it's not exact.

Jezrien was definitely in his 30s when he became a Herald. Dalinar also describes him as looking in his 30s when he sees him in a Vision. I don't recall him commenting on Ahu's age, but Ahu looked like crem, so it's hard to tell his age.  

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"Tall and confident, the man was in his thirties, and he wore white and blue." - OB Ch. 42

Maybe he's a young looking 35 or so. Still Shallash can't have been much older than 18 - 20 when she became a Herald otherwise we start running into questions I don't want to know the answers to. "Could 12-year old Jezrien have fathered a child?"

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I think you're taking that WoB too literally. Jezrien probably just looks younger than he actually is. 

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I actually think she's not her biological daughter at all. Physically they doesn't look much alike 

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Posted (edited)

A lot of immortality options allow for maturation but not aging. The two processes are different. So it's plausible that 25 year old Jezrian had a daughter, 35 year Old Jezriam became a herald along with his 10 year old daughter that climbed a mountain and looked, and that she still continued maturing until around 25 when the brain finishes its maturation process. She could grow. Her biological maturation mechanisms(puberty/etc) could happen, but she won't move past that point because her cells won't degrade as they copy. 

Edited by Aminar
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2 hours ago, Aminar said:

A lot of immortality options allow for maturation but not aging. The two processes are different. So it's plausible that 25 year old Jezrian had a daughter, 35 year Old Jezriam became a herald along with his 10 year old daughter that climbed a mountain and looked, and that she still continued maturing until around 25 when the brain finishes its maturation process. She could grow. Her biological maturation mechanisms(puberty/etc) could happen, but she won't move past that point because her cells won't degrade as they copy. 

 

I think that makes sense as a possible process for immortality but I'm not sure it makes sense in this case.  I can't see Ash becoming a Herald at age 10.  It seems like the way a person becomes a herald is by embodying some certain characteristic or trait.  Also, the key aspects of the job of Herald are to fight in battle and teach people about things like medicine and blacksmithing.  It's not really a job fit for a 10 year old.  I think she has to be at least an older teen to become a herald.  We also know that Taln loved her and only became a Herald because of that love, another reason to believe she wasn't 10 at the time.  I think it would be more likely if somehow Jezrien became a Herald or some kind of proto-Herald and Ash only joined later than if she joined as a child.

Personally, I think RJ has the most likely answer - the WoB is being taken too literally.  Jezrien could have been in his 40s but looked like he was 30 at the time he became a Herald.  So he looks the same way he looked when he was age 45, he now looks at age 4045 or whatever his age is.  I could get behind her being an adopted daughter too.

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25 minutes ago, agrabes said:

 

I think that makes sense as a possible process for immortality but I'm not sure it makes sense in this case.  I can't see Ash becoming a Herald at age 10.  It seems like the way a person becomes a herald is by embodying some certain characteristic or trait.  Also, the key aspects of the job of Herald are to fight in battle and teach people about things like medicine and blacksmithing.  It's not really a job fit for a 10 year old.  I think she has to be at least an older teen to become a herald.  We also know that Taln loved her and only became a Herald because of that love, another reason to believe she wasn't 10 at the time.  I think it would be more likely if somehow Jezrien became a Herald or some kind of proto-Herald and Ash only joined later than if she joined as a child.

Personally, I think RJ has the most likely answer - the WoB is being taken too literally.  Jezrien could have been in his 40s but looked like he was 30 at the time he became a Herald.  So he looks the same way he looked when he was age 45, he now looks at age 4045 or whatever his age is.  I could get behind her being an adopted daughter too.

I feel like the Heralds became Heralds through the Oathpact. The behaviors that earned it was being willing to deal with the horror that this caused. The suffering it brought. I don't think that more is needed. 

That said obviously the age gap of 35 to ten could be much smaller. 35 to 18 or 39 to 22 wouldn't be unreasonable as I doubt anybody would have a 10 year old sign up for millenia of being chased and tortured by vengeance spirits. I was more using that as an analogy to explain why it's just not that outlandish. 

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Revelant WoB that is hilarious 

Quote

Questioner

I have a bit of a problem with the first Desolation timeline. I'm wondering how old were the Heralds when they became Heralds.

Brandon Sanderson

The age that you would see them as when you met them. They basically are the age they look. When they became Heralds, they are the age that they appeared.

Questioner

So they were like in their younger middle age?

Brandon Sanderson

Some of them. I mean Ishar is older.

Questioner

So that means that the entire timeline of the first Desolation happened within a single lifetime?

Brandon Sanderson

A lot of the ancient chronologies are wrong and you won't get the actual answers until the Heralds themselves explain it in their flashback sequences in the back five. 

Questioner

You've said that the Heralds came over from Ashyn. 

Brandon Sanderson

Yes.

Questioner

Okay. How old were they then?

Brandon Sanderson

Younger than they were when they became Heralds.

Starsight Release Party (Nov. 26, 2019)

Second off, your questions will be answered in Book 5, at the very latest (at least that was my interpretation of "back five")

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Posted (edited)

25 minutes ago, GoWibble said:

Revelant WoB that is hilarious 

Second off, your questions will be answered in Book 5, at the very latest (at least that was my interpretation of "back five")

the Heralds are supoosed to be the focus of the second stormlight series(books 6-10 A.K.A "the back five") and have flashbacks of them during those books.

i think thats what he meant

 

the-kings-wit

One thing that I'm slightly confused about is who the primary POVs will be for the second set of 5 books in the 10-book series. I've heard a bunch of names being floated around on various online forums--such as Jasnah, Renarin, and Taravangian to name a few--but are any of these confirmed? Any word of Brandon as of yet?

Brandon Sanderson

It's possible this will change. But the back five have been planned as Jasnah, Renarin, Lift, Taln, and Ash. Though, once again, this isn't a promise that these people survive. You'll likely see at least one flashback set in the series from a character who has died in a previous book, and then you get to see something they experienced through flashbacks before their death.

Footnote: The Ash that Brandon is referring to here is the Herald also known as Shalash.
Stormlight Three Update #1 (Sept. 12, 2015)

Edited by Eternal Khol
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19 hours ago, IcaroRibeiro said:

I actually think she's not her biological daughter at all. Physically they doesn't look much alike 

We don’t know that. Ash is dark-skinned with shin eyes, while Jezrien is a bit darker than your regular Alethi. Something is also ”off” about his Alethi appearance, which could be potential Shin-eyes (isn’t it confirmed that all Heralds have those). Even if they aren’t very similar to eachother, Ash has a mother. She could just take after her. 

Personally, I think its a good observation. I’d guess that Jezrien is a little older than he looks. Brandons comment on how ”they look their age”, is after all, made in a signing queue. He might have just generalized, and gave the answer that was correct for the majority of them. I think Ash is Jezriens biological daughter. Adopting someone who would be around ten years younger than you (assuming he is thirty and she is twenty) would be kinda odd too, I think.

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My man got busy at a young age and had a baby early.

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How about this: Jezrien is in his mid-to-late thirties, and he had Ash when he was twenty. It's on the young side, but there are many cultures -- especially ancient ones -- where people marry very young. Even if the Heralds didn't age or mature after they became Heralds, Ash would be in her late teens. If she looks like a mature teenager, that explains the age issue.

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