Character Arena

[+Brassweaver]

23 hours ago, Experience said:

Yes, I think that the circumstances mean everything. Also, Hoid pretty much wins almost everything(I think)

I don't know... If TLR like incapacitated Hoid and was able to spike some of his spiritual powers out of him he might be able to kill him or at least cause very serious permanent damage

[NameIess]

1 minute ago, Brassweaver said:

I don't know... If TLR like incapacitated Hoid and was able to spike some of his spiritual powers out of him he might be able to kill him or at least cause very serious permanent damage

Hoid can heal hemalurgy.

[+Brassweaver]

1 minute ago, Nameless said:

Hoid can heal hemalurgy.

True... in that case I would call it a draw. TLR can't destory Hoid, but I really doubt Hoid could kill TLR unless he got really lucky like Vin.

[Frustration]

9 minutes ago, Brassweaver said:

True... in that case I would call it a draw. TLR can't destory Hoid, but I really doubt Hoid could kill TLR unless he got really lucky like Vin.

Hoid can't hurt people.

[FantasyFanatic]

On 5/9/2020 at 9:44 AM, Nameless said:

As I have said, this one is a draw. Neither of them can kill the other, so unless Hoid waits for TLR to die of old age, it's a tie.

Which, knowing Hoid, he would probably do.

[Staenbridge]

21 hours ago, ChickenLiberty said:

emotional Allomancy won't play a big roll

Emotional allomancy is such a weirdly vague thing in the books... it's basically only used with the goal of being subtle, and under the supervision of experts. We're never shown many examples of emotional allomancy that isn't very precise and subtle, except as a teaching exercise to say, "you should do it better — like this." The upper limits of how much you can affect someone's emotional state aren't explored nearly as much. Could you in theory Riot someone's self-hatred and Soothe any desire to not die enough that they might try to kill themselves, or do these not count as emotions for the purposes of emotional allomancy? What about the alternative? Could you Soothe someone's aggression so hard that they would be physically incapable of wielding a weapon against someone? 

If that were possible then all of the subtlety be damned; brass and zinc are the chief combat metals now. Coinshot? Who cares! Before they can attack, you can hit them with a mental brick to the head and they'll hand you the gun to shoot them with.  

[Chiberty]

1 hour ago, Staenbridge said:

Emotional allomancy is such a weirdly vague thing in the books... it's basically only used with the goal of being subtle, and under the supervision of experts. We're never shown many examples of emotional allomancy that isn't very precise and subtle, except as a teaching exercise to say, "you should do it better — like this." The upper limits of how much you can affect someone's emotional state aren't explored nearly as much. Could you in theory Riot someone's self-hatred and Soothe any desire to not die enough that they might try to kill themselves, or do these not count as emotions for the purposes of emotional allomancy? What about the alternative? Could you Soothe someone's aggression so hard that they would be physically incapable of wielding a weapon against someone? 

If that were possible then all of the subtlety be damned; brass and zinc are the chief combat metals now. Coinshot? Who cares! Before they can attack, you can hit them with a mental brick to the head and they'll hand you the gun to shoot them with.  

I think that you're missing the point I made there. I was talking specifically about its role in a battle against Szeth.

[Staenbridge]

15 hours ago, ChickenLiberty said:

I think that you're missing the point I made there. I was talking specifically about its role in a battle against Szeth.

Oh yeah  I kind of got side tracked theorizing. 

[Dunkum]

18 hours ago, ChickenLiberty said:

I think that you're missing the point I made there. I was talking specifically about its role in a battle against Szeth.

I think it may actually be a good point.  we don't often see the effects of a massive spike of soothing.  Breeze certainly would never do it, it isn't his way.  and the main character in the first era mistborn books is, well, a mistborn, so she's often burning copper anyway to prevent such a thing.  if a soother (or rioter, but I think soothing is going to be the more useful of the 2 in this case) hit someone with just a massive burst of emotional allomancy, what would that do to them?  especially for a person who isnt specifically used to fighting against such a thing?  At the absolute minimum, I suspect it would cause Szeth to falter the first time he felt it, which might be enough.  stormlight can heal a lot, but i doubt it could heal a pewter-flared hit to the face, or a flurry of coins to the head.  And Vin is probably good enough to get an attack like that in with just a moment or two of distraction

Edited May 11, 2020 by Dunkum

[Chiberty]

57 minutes ago, Dunkum said:

I think it may actually be a good point.  we don't often see the effects of a massive spike of soothing.  Breeze certainly would never do it, it isn't his way.  and the main character in the first era mistborn books is, well, a mistborn, so she's often burning copper anyway to prevent such a thing.  if a soother (or rioter, but I think soothing is going to be the more useful of the 2 in this case) hit someone with just a massive burst of emotional allomancy, what would that do to them?  especially for a person who isnt specifically used to fighting against such a thing?  At the absolute minimum, I suspect it would cause Szeth to falter the first time he felt it, which might be enough.  stormlight can heal a lot, but i doubt it could hit a pewter-flared hit to the face, or a flurry of coins to the head.  And Vin is probably good enough to get an attack like that in with just a moment or wo of distraction

Another thing I had pointed out, which may have been easy to miss, is that it is harder to Soothe Invested people. Besides that, I was saying that Szeth specifically is sort of used to "fighting against such a thing." Throughout WoK and WoR, he wanted to kill himself, but he just ignored that urge. His emotions didn't really affect his actions until the very end, when he started to realize that he wasn't actually Truthless. No matter what he had going on internally, whether it was feeling dead inside or feeling extreme self-hatred, he made sure that his orders were carried out. 

I recognize the combat potential of emotional allomancy, but against Szeth, I think that the minimum effect you suggested would be more of a maximum, due to both the resistance from Investiture against other Investiture and Szeth's resistance to acting on his emotions.

[Dunkum]

31 minutes ago, ChickenLiberty said:

Another thing I had pointed out, which may have been easy to miss, is that it is harder to Soothe Invested people. Besides that, I was saying that Szeth specifically is sort of used to "fighting against such a thing." Throughout WoK and WoR, he wanted to kill himself, but he just ignored that urge. His emotions didn't really affect his actions until the very end, when he started to realize that he wasn't actually Truthless. No matter what he had going on internally, whether it was feeling dead inside or feeling extreme self-hatred, he made sure that his orders were carried out. 

I recognize the combat potential of emotional allomancy, but against Szeth, I think that the minimum effect you suggested would be more of a maximum, due to both the resistance from Investiture against other Investiture and Szeth's resistance to acting on his emotions.

you're right that someone who is holding stormlight is going to be more resistant to it, but its definitely not clear how strong that effect is going to be. as far as szeth ignoring his emotions and carrying out his orders, that is true, but I'm not sure how well that experience would carry over to a massive burst of soothing.  certainly he'd be able to regain his momentum, but I still think it would give him pause for a moment or two, and like I said, that may be all the pause Vin would need.  still, I think overall, stormlight healing means szeth probably has an advantage in this fight - with either the honorblade or nightblood, he just needs 1 pretty good hit to kill or severely incapacitate, while Vin would need either 1 perfect hit, or several very damaging hits, meanwhile both skybreaker and honorblade szeth are going to be more maneuverable than she is even accounting for iron and steel.  i'm just saying that if I were making odds, Vin's emotional allomancy would be enough to push her odds up a little bit.

[jamesbondsmith]

On 5/11/2020 at 4:38 AM, Staenbridge said:

Emotional allomancy is such a weirdly vague thing in the books... it's basically only used with the goal of being subtle, and under the supervision of experts. We're never shown many examples of emotional allomancy that isn't very precise and subtle, except as a teaching exercise to say, "you should do it better — like this." The upper limits of how much you can affect someone's emotional state aren't explored nearly as much. Could you in theory Riot someone's self-hatred and Soothe any desire to not die enough that they might try to kill themselves, or do these not count as emotions for the purposes of emotional allomancy? What about the alternative? Could you Soothe someone's aggression so hard that they would be physically incapable of wielding a weapon against someone? 

If that were possible then all of the subtlety be damned; brass and zinc are the chief combat metals now. Coinshot? Who cares! Before they can attack, you can hit them with a mental brick to the head and they'll hand you the gun to shoot them with.  

There's heaps of examples of non-subtle emotional allomancy. Pretty much any duralumin-boosted Riot or Sooth is the definition of unsubtle, and TLR is pretty quickly revealed to be using it on a mass scale in The Final Empire. Vin using it on Straff, and a certain character near the end of Alloy of Law using it are more examples (I'm not sure how much you've read).