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A strange similarity between two Cosmere substances


Honorless

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Trellium is described as a silvery metal with a red cast to it, and dark red spots similar to rust.

There exists another substance which is described to have a similar appearance: Soulstone, which is noted to be a whitish fine grained rock with flecks of red mixed in.

Could these two be the same substance? I know the texture of the two don't really match, one is described as being metallic and the other as being a soft chalk like rock that hardens after being baked in a fire. But the red dotted markings...

It could be an indication of Corrupted Investiture, perhaps?

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It's an interesting idea. I've never felt like Forging was a corruption of investiture, and Soulstone in particular being like the best material for forgery, nothing that we've seen there screams "corrupt" to me. But it's unquestionable that there's something different and a little weird about soulstone. So maybe you're on the right track.

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3 hours ago, R J said:

Trellium is described as a silvery metal with a red cast to it, and dark red spots similar to rust.

There exists another substance which is described to have a similar appearance: Soulstone, which is noted to be a whitish fine grained rock with flecks of red mixed in.

Could these two be the same substance? I know the texture of the two don't really match, one is described as being metallic and the other as being a soft chalk like rock that hardens after being baked in a fire. But the red dotted markings...

It could be an indication of Corrupted Investiture, perhaps?

Actually, soulstone is grayish with red flecks, not whitish. And it's not very metallic at all. So it's definitely not the same substance. Also, soulstone is good for Stamps just because of it's ease in carving and the hardening properties. A stamp would work just as well if it were made out of wood. Crystal would actually be better, presumably because it's harder so less smudges and more fine edges and the like.

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It was good soulstone. The rock came away easily and precisely. Soulstone was almost as soft as chalk, but did not chip when scraped. You could carve it with high precision, and then set it with a flame and a mark on the top, which would harden it to a strength closer to quartz. The only way to get a better stamp was to carve one from crystal itself, which was incredibly difficult.

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Those marks finished, she held the stamp over a flame. This was a property of soulstone; fire hardened it, so it could not be chipped. She didn’t need to take this step. The anchoring marks on the top were all it really needed, and she could carve a stamp out of anything, really, so long as the carving was precise. Soulstone was prized, however, because of this hardening process.

 

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On 5/8/2020 at 0:22 AM, RShara said:

Actually, soulstone is grayish with red flecks, not whitish. And it's not very metallic at all. So it's definitely not the same substance. Also, soulstone is good for Stamps just because of it's ease in carving and the hardening properties. A stamp would work just as well if it were made out of wood. Crystal would actually be better, presumably because it's harder so less smudges and more fine edges and the like.

I use whitish to describe which way a certain shade of colour leans, in this case light, though greyish probably is a better way of describing it rather than sticking to my own mental post-its & placards and besides, arguing over exact shade is a bit like arguing over pronunciation, the comparison is with another substance, soapstone.

Edit: Dunno why I said it like that, to put it simply, I meant scale white-grey-black, it looks whitish grey, light gray, grey that is closer to dirty white but not silvery, nor dark... oh you get the point

Yeah, I did note the differences in texture, though I should also note that 'metallic' perhaps isn't the best word to use here as there are soft metals like potassium.

The substance's appearance doesn't seem to match any real-world analogues, nor do clays turn to crystal, as I've noted above in the topic (though again I'm not a geologist), so I asked the next question: whether it is a Cosmere only substance and Godmetals were what came to mind, which only have to be solid manifestation of a Shard's Investiture, not necessarily a metal, unless I'm mistaken.

Yes it is not necessary for Forgery, but it is useful. We've only seen it used one way in a novella. Also knowing the author...

Plus, there's also this:

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Her ancestors had worshipped rocks that fell from the sky at night. The souls of broken gods, those chunks had been called. Master craftsmen would carve them to bring out the shape.

 

Edited by R J
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1 hour ago, R J said:

I use whitish to describe which way a certain shade of colour leans, in this case light, though greyish probably is a better way of describing it rather than sticking to my own mental post-its & placards and besides, arguing over exact shade is a bit like arguing over pronunciation, the comparison is with another substance, soapstone.

Yeah, I did note the differences in texture, though I should also note that 'metallic' perhaps isn't the best word to use here as there are soft metals like potassium.

The substance's appearance doesn't seem to match any real-world analogues, nor do clays turn to crystal, as I've noted above in the topic (though again I'm not a geologist), so I asked the next question: whether it is a Cosmere only substance and Godmetals were what came to mind, which only have to be solid manifestation of a Shard's Investiture, not necessarily a metal, unless I'm mistaken.

Yes it is not necessary for Forgery, but it is useful. We've only seen it used one way in a novella. Also knowing the author...

Plus, there's also this:

 

If it were that soft, I don't think they would have been able to make spikes out of them. There's no way something that soft would penetrate tissue, and at least the chimeras were physically spiked, not forming muscles around the spike.

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On 5/8/2020 at 2:56 AM, RShara said:

If it were that soft, I don't think they would have been able to make spikes out of them. There's no way something that soft would penetrate tissue, and at least the chimeras were physically spiked, not forming muscles around the spike.

Could it have been the crystallized version then? Though that would still be stretching it, Wax is a chemist, he should be able to tell whether something is a crystallized mineral or a metallic ore at a glance

Wait, what is this thing about the Chimeras? Or are you putting that in contrast with the Kandra?

Edited by R J
edited for clarity
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5 minutes ago, R J said:

Could it have been the crystallized version then? Though that would still be stretching it, Wax is a chemist, he should be able to tell that much at a glance

Wait, what is this thing about the Chimeras? Or are you putting that in contrast with the Kandra?

The chimeras that attack Wax and TenSoon in SoS. They had spikes in them, of the same metal that Paalm used.

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38 minutes ago, RShara said:

The chimeras that attack Wax and TenSoon in SoS. They had spikes in them, of the same metal that Paalm used.

I know that's the name the fandom gave them, I meant this part: "the chimeras were physically spiked, not forming muscles around the spike."

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Worth it to follow that train of thought for the sake of exhaustiveness though I didn't think there was much chance they'd both turn out to be the same substance *points at title* so we get to the next question: the red dotted appearance, the only thing we have for the colour red in the Cosmere is that it sometimes indicates Corrupted Investiture but why would there be Corrupted Investiture on Sel when both Devotion & Dominion are dead and Odium did not leave any of his power behind

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15 hours ago, John203 said:

Perhaps Odium did not work alone. Perhaps he (devotion's antithesis) worked with Autonomy (dominion's antithesis). Autonomy is also likely behind trell, so that could be a connection.

She did help him with that in a way. Maybe the red dots are just devotion's godmetal, soulstone an alloy that naturally appeared during the splintering and Trellium an Allomanticaly viable alloy made by Trell. It would mean that Bavadium don't mix really with with other metal which kind of make sense.

We should ask Brandon whether soulstone is a godmetal and if it's allomanticaly viable.

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That is, of course, assuming it is a godmetal... err godmineral?

And that the two are from the same Shard, rather than the similarity in appearance being caused by something else

 

I had created a separate topic for whether Soulstone even is a Godmetal...ish thing:

 

Edited by R J
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  • 3 months later...
On 5/10/2020 at 7:04 AM, Brassweaver said:

This is probably off base, but it could have been caused by like some inadvertant mixing when D and D were splintered. 

Huh, assuming that it is a godmetal-ish thingy, yeah, actually that's quite plausible. The Dor is a pressurized mix of Devotion and Dominion, so their Physical manifestation could reflect that mixing and interpret it as inherent Corruption perhaps maybe? 

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7 hours ago, Honorless said:

Huh, assuming that it is a godmetal-ish thingy, yeah, actually that's quite plausible. The Dor is a pressurized mix of Devotion and Dominion, so their Physical manifestation could reflect that mixing and interpret it as inherent Corruption perhaps maybe? 

Not necesserly. Shardblades are mixed Investiture from Honor and Cultivation, and they are one metal, without any rust.

Besides, I doubht that Soulstone is Godmetal. First, this isnt metal, is more like clay, second, Godmetals are highly Invested, and we know that is very hard Invest Invested object - and this is what Stamp is.

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1 hour ago, Bzhydack said:

Not necesserly. Shardblades are mixed Investiture from Honor and Cultivation, and they are one metal, without any rust.

Good point, also a super interesting WoB if anyone's interested: https://wob.coppermind.net/events/372/#e11949 . Though the situation might be a bit different on Sel with the Dor. 

1 hour ago, Bzhydack said:

Besides, I doubht that Soulstone is Godmetal. First, this isnt metal, is more like clay, second, Godmetals are highly Invested, and we know that is very hard Invest Invested object - and this is what Stamp is.

Does it have to be metal? It tends towards being metallic, but we don't have confirmation that Physical manifestation of Investiture has to be metallic

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Overlord Jebus

All the physical manifestations--solid physical manifestations we've seen of Investiture has been metallic. It's been atium, lerasium, Shardblades. Is that just a coincidence?

Brandon Sanderson

No, it's intentional.

Overlord Jebus

It's intentional so we're not going to see Investiture wood or Investiture plastic?

Brandon Sanderson

Right, I mean technically, like, what do you call the Aethers? Those are not metal. But I do it as metal intentionally.

Questioner

They could be a metal with very low boiling point.

Brandon Sanderson

Yeah, the vine ones are--

Overlord Jebus

Well we've had liquid, we've had gas, the solids all seem to be metallic, so.

Brandon Sanderson

That is intentional, it's just one of those little laws of the cosmere, that's not meant to mean anything

Emerald City Comic Con 2018 (March 1, 2018)

some people also speculate that the Tears of Edgli might be a Physical manifestation of Endowment

It is very hard to Invest an already Invested object with foreign Investiture, but what about using their natural Investiture systems? Hemalurgic spikes made of Atium and Lerasium supposedly work, Atium metalminds are confirmed in-book to work. Forgery is a natural manifestation of Investiture arts from the Dor, so it shouldn't resist being Invested by one of the very things its naturally inclined to fuel.

 

Again, assuming that it is a Godmetal analogue, it would be really embarrassing if it's just a natural substance like Ralkalest (aluminium)

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