Quick Fix 44: Shadows in the Forest

[Megasif]

Hi everyone, been a while. Good to play again. Just a few quick first impressions:

I like Elkanah - in the sense that their analysis seems sincere and doesn't seem to be coming from a mindset of an elim trying to make a show of activity and be villa read for it. Maybe I don't agree with everything but it's coming from some place good, I feel. Lean village for now.

Similarly I like cadcoms boldness - elims may be more hesitant with their choice of words.

Striker giving us a false sense of 'enough time' makes me suspicius as elims would want us to think we are in a good place. Maybe a few cycles later, I would hard elim read it but at this point I'll just be cautious.

Edited May 9, 2020 by Megasif

[Karnage]

2 hours ago, Arraenae said:

I actually disagree with Elkanah’s statement that knives should be saved until the end. Generally, vigilante kills are very very swingy. Using a knife at the end of the game, when there are far fewer players, is significantly riskier than using it in the start or the middle of the game. At the end of the game, the wrong knife kill can put the village into a state of LyLo, where they must kill an eliminator this turn or lose. Comparatively, at the start and the middle of the game, there are still a lot of other bodies left. If you use a knife at the end of the game, you should be very sure that the person you are killing is an eliminator.

I think this is very valid and I agree with Megasif. There are pros and cons to each that I see. If they are used in the start or the middle of the game than there will be a lower chance of a wrong hit ruining the villages chances of winning. The negatives is that there is less to go on so a miss hit is likely. The positive for the late game use of the knife is that there is more to go off of in order to try to kill the elims. The negative being that if there is a mistake, like Arraenae said, a mistake could result in a loss for the elims. 

 

39 minutes ago, Megasif said:

Maybe I don't agree with everything but it's coming from some place good, I feel. Lean village for now.

I agree, nothing more need to be said.

3 hours ago, StrikerEZ said:

Also, with 22 players, I’d expect 5 elims. Ignoring the knives, we have six mislynches until we hit LyLo. Plenty of time to start finding people we suspect and stuff.

I dunno about yall, but this hits me wrong. We don't need a false sense of security, we want to make sure that we have some reason for a lynching after cycle 2. What about yall?

[Furamirionind]

Well, my head is still mostly in the LG, so I probably won't be quite as active this game as I'd normally like... but I still wanted to join a... more normal type of game. Lol

There isn't a ton of rules stuff to analyse this game, which is nice. Though we do seem to have a disagreement about when to use the knifes?

4 hours ago, Elkanah said:

I recommend not using the knife until we are down to less than ten players. I doubt there are more than three. 

2 hours ago, Arraenae said:

I actually disagree with Elkanah’s statement that knives should be saved until the end. Generally, vigilante kills are very very swingy. Using a knife at the end of the game, when there are far fewer players, is significantly riskier than using it in the start or the middle of the game. At the end of the game, the wrong knife kill can put the village into a state of LyLo, where they must kill an eliminator this turn or lose. Comparatively, at the start and the middle of the game, there are still a lot of other bodies left. If you use a knife at the end of the game, you should be very sure that the person you are killing is an eliminator.

Personally, I'd say this changes based on what happens this game. I would strongly discourage anyone from using a knife C1, though generally I'd just say that we should use them on people we are pretty sure are evil, regardless of when in the game it happens... I think that's a pretty good compromise. : P

Also speaking of knives, I'm not going to pretend to know enough to guess at how many are in this game. However people that started with knives are almost certainly village. with 22 players, an elim composition where they start with a knife probably only has 3 elims, or 4 with 2 new(ish) elims to offset that. This brings up the point that we could probably use knives to soft clear players... But that's no fun so lets not do that? : P

As for the other items, I find it likely the elims will have at least 1 silver powder, and I also agree with Elkanah about that being the elim to do most of the killing. However, as time goes on, the powder becomes more important for the elims to have, so if the elim with the powder gets lynched, they would be more likely to use their action to give the powder to another, rather than just kill one last time with it. This means I would expect the best roleblock targets are going to be people not up for the lynch.
Of course, now this is an IKYK, but I don't often think losing the powder would be worth winning the IKYK.

It's also worth considering, if you are being lynched an have an item, perhaps passing that item to someone else. This of course depends on if there is anyone trustworthy enough to get that item, but it's something worth considering.

8 minutes ago, Karnage said:

I dunno about yall, but this hits me wrong. We don't need a false sense of security, we want to make sure that we have some reason for a lynching after cycle 2. What about yall?

I disagree. Not with your conclusion, just the premise. I don't believe 6 cycles until LyLo is really something that should make people feel all that secure. However, it does mean that we can take 2-3 cycles to collect info before we are in need of correctly identifying an elim.

I'll post a vote probably within the next couple hours.

[StrikerEZ]

55 minutes ago, Megasif said:

Striker giving us a false sense of 'enough time' makes me suspicius as elims would want us to think we are in a good place. Maybe a few cycles later, I would hard elim read it but at this point I'll just be cautious.

 

11 minutes ago, Karnage said:

I dunno about yall, but this hits me wrong. We don't need a false sense of security, we want to make sure that we have some reason for a lynching after cycle 2. What about yall?

Well, this isn’t the thing I’d expect to draw suspicion towards me C1, but are we really surprised?  (In case you don’t know, there’s a bit of a tradition for me getting lynched in the first cycle or two of games)

So, I guess I should’ve added more to what I was saying like I thought about doing? I wasn’t trying to give us a false sense of security or anything. I was even gonna mention that, when you consider the fact that most of the knives are probably gonna just hit villagers if they’re used in the early game, we actually probably have less than six mislynches we can afford. 

I don’t blame you guys for reading it that way, but that wasn’t my intent.

[Kidpen]

Oh shoot I didn't realize this had started! Hi! I'll post something substantial soon.

[xinoehp512]

3 hours ago, Straw said:

Shades are allowed to edit their text when they type stuff out initially, but after that they shouldn't. So, for example, you can quickly fix a typo as you type it, but you can't edit in whole new sentences and have them be confirmed as coming from the same person.

They are not told the results of the Shade vote (which results in the roleblock). They'll still be able to see the results of the regular thread vote, if that's what you're asking.

Ah, okay. That rules out color changes to confirm identity, then. 

It doesn't rule out other methods, though...

I propose that we each come up with a few simple cipher-texts as a means of verification. For example, you could take two words such as 'cat' and 'dog' and turn them into their number equivalents (a=1, b=2 and so on). In this instance, that gets you 3 1 20 and 4 15 7. Add the two together: so 3+4=7, 1+15=16, and 20+7=27. 27 is greater than 26, so subtract 26 in order to get 1, leaving you with 7,16, and 1. Turn that back into letters to get GPA. That one probably wouldn't prove overly difficult to crack via concerted effort, however, so best to do something longer.

Then, if you get sent to the shade document and want to verify your identity, start with the two words in their decoded form and end with a predetermined stopping sequence (potentially including a code to verify your identity on your next comment.) For instance, someone using code GPA might have a sentence like this:

CATDOG: This is Xinoehp, checking in. How's it going?<LSSTCAGR>

I'm not insisting this be used by everyone, but I thought it might be a cool idea.  It shouldn't be too difficult for most people either (sorry if I've explained it badly- I'll try again if anyone is confused.)

[Sart]

1 hour ago, xinoehp512 said:

Ah, okay. That rules out color changes to confirm identity, then. 

It doesn't rule out other methods, though...

I propose that we each come up with a few simple cipher-texts as a means of verification. For example, you could take two words such as 'cat' and 'dog' and turn them into their number equivalents (a=1, b=2 and so on). In this instance, that gets you 3 1 20 and 4 15 7. Add the two together: so 3+4=7, 1+15=16, and 20+7=27. 27 is greater than 26, so subtract 26 in order to get 1, leaving you with 7,16, and 1. Turn that back into letters to get GPA. That one probably wouldn't prove overly difficult to crack via concerted effort, however, so best to do something longer.

Then, if you get sent to the shade document and want to verify your identity, start with the two words in their decoded form and end with a predetermined stopping sequence (potentially including a code to verify your identity on your next comment.) For instance, someone using code GPA might have a sentence like this:

CATDOG: This is Xinoehp, checking in. How's it going?<LSSTCAGR>

I'm not insisting this be used by everyone, but I thought it might be a cool idea.  It shouldn't be too difficult for most people either (sorry if I've explained it badly- I'll try again if anyone is confused.)

I don't think I understand this. How would we distribute these unique identifiers? And what's stopping an eliminator from reusing one of them? Sorry, it's just not connecting for me.

More importantly, we don't have any eliminators dead yet. We're already a third of the way into the cycle, and we only have one vote down. Unlike the Long Game, there's no benefit to waiting for a lynch, because we get alignment flips. I'm putting a poke vote on A Joe in the Bush. @A Joe in the Bush He was evil the last time this ruleset was run, and he hasn't posted yet. Other players who haven't posted yet are @Elandera, @Lord_Silberfarben, @BrightnessRadiant, @Kynedath, @Elbereth, @Zillah, @DrakeMarshall, and @Amanuensis

[Karnage]

6 hours ago, The_God_King said:

Interesting analysis @Elkanah. I find nothing entirely objectable about your immediate thoughts on the uses of items. For taking the lead of the party you may find some opposition but for day 1 I will stick back and make sure nothing goes crazy.

Not gonna lie, when I first read what Elkanah said about taking the lead and breaking any tied votes I was very suspicious. And I think it may still be suspicious, but it does make sense for the first couple of cycles. After that we are giving too much power to a potential elim. 

[Arrae]

3 minutes ago, Sart said:

I don't think I understand this. How would we distribute these unique identifiers? And what's stopping an eliminator from reusing one of them? Sorry, it's just not connecting for me.

More importantly, we don't have any eliminators dead yet. We're already a third of the way into the cycle, and we only have one vote down. Unlike the Long Game, there's no benefit to waiting for a lynch, because we get alignment flips. I'm putting a poke vote on A Joe in the Bush. @A Joe in the Bush He was evil the last time this ruleset was run, and he hasn't posted yet. Other players who haven't posted yet are @Elandera, @Lord_Silberfarben, @BrightnessRadiant, @Kynedath, @Elbereth, @Zillah, @DrakeMarshall, and @Amanuensis

I thought Joe ran QF16?

[Sart]

6 minutes ago, Arraenae said:

I thought Joe ran QF16?

No. Looking back it was Ripplegryff who ran it. If I recall correctly, the game dragged on because the dead doc had completely figured Joe out, and were blocking him every turn, while the living players (including me) were too dumb to realize it.

[The_God_King]

10 minutes ago, Sart said:

I don't think I understand this. How would we distribute these unique identifiers? And what's stopping an eliminator from reusing one of them? Sorry, it's just not connecting for me.

More importantly, we don't have any eliminators dead yet. We're already a third of the way into the cycle, and we only have one vote down. Unlike the Long Game, there's no benefit to waiting for a lynch, because we get alignment flips. I'm putting a poke vote on A Joe in the Bush. @A Joe in the Bush He was evil the last time this ruleset was run, and he hasn't posted yet. Other players who haven't posted yet are @Elandera, @Lord_Silberfarben, @BrightnessRadiant, @Kynedath, @Elbereth, @Zillah, @DrakeMarshall, and @Amanuensis

While I have no reason to assume Joe is good I think he deserves to live through a portion of this game Sart

9 minutes ago, Karnage said:

Not gonna lie, when I first read what Elkanah said about taking the lead and breaking any tied votes I was very suspicious. And I think it may still be suspicious, but it does make sense for the first couple of cycles. After that we are giving too much power to a potential elim. 

Agreed. I won’t drop my guard yet and won’t bow to any power other than the will of the passions my own fists. He hasn’t done anything crazy other than outline his thoughts on the items. His breaking tie may just be that he favors lynching. Something I differ from most players but accept that neither side is inherently wrong. 

[Arrae]

If we're slapping on poke votes, I might as well go with Aman. @Amanuensis, hi.

[xinoehp512]

24 minutes ago, Sart said:

I don't think I understand this. How would we distribute these unique identifiers? And what's stopping an eliminator from reusing one of them? Sorry, it's just not connecting for me.

More importantly, we don't have any eliminators dead yet. We're already a third of the way into the cycle, and we only have one vote down. Unlike the Long Game, there's no benefit to waiting for a lynch, because we get alignment flips. I'm putting a poke vote on A Joe in the Bush. @A Joe in the Bush He was evil the last time this ruleset was run, and he hasn't posted yet. Other players who haven't posted yet are @Elandera, @Lord_Silberfarben, @BrightnessRadiant, @Kynedath, @Elbereth, @Zillah, @DrakeMarshall, and @Amanuensis

The idea would be that each person comes up with their own. They're the only one that knows what the two words are that combine to form their ciphered string, so revealing the two words will confirm that they were the one who created it. Eliminators can't use another person's identifier because they wouldn't know what the words were that combined into the finished code.

9 minutes ago, The_God_King said:

While I have no reason to assume Joe is good I think he deserves to live through a portion of this game Sart

It's a poke vote: presumably he intends to take it off Joe once he posts something. I think it's a little early in the cycle for poke votes, personally, but overall it's NAI. This makes me slightly suspicious of you, but you're fairly new so I'll cut you some slack for now.

[The_God_King]

18 minutes ago, xinoehp512 said:

It's a poke vote: presumably he intends to take it off Joe once he posts something. I think it's a little early in the cycle for poke votes, personally, but overall it's NAI. This makes me slightly suspicious of you, but you're fairly new so I'll cut you some slack for now.

I’ve read too many games with joe dying way too early. The vote is circumstantial at best but the reasoning is a poke and that joe was bad in a previous game. Not my favorite reasons to cast a vote 

 

edit: also I’m not that new. I hate having everyone excuse my reasoning because of that. I’ve been playing for three months now and know the basics of the game. This vote was well thought out and I understood the reasoning. Sorry to be a bit defensive but having my opinion discounted is not my favorite thing to read

Edited May 10, 2020 by The_God_King

[Zillah]

39 minutes ago, xinoehp512 said:

The idea would be that each person comes up with their own. They're the only one that knows what the two words are that combine to form their ciphered string, so revealing the two words will confirm that they were the one who created it. Eliminators can't use another person's identifier because they wouldn't know what the words were that combined into the finished code.

Hey, so I might be completely missing something. But I don’t see what the purpose of having a code at all is? Why not literally just have your name? 

28 minutes ago, The_God_King said:

also I’m not that new. I hate having everyone excuse my reasoning because of that. I’ve been playing for three months now and know the basics of the game. This vote was well thought out and I understood the reasoning. Sorry to be a bit defensive but having my opinion discounted is not my favorite thing to read

I agree wholeheartedly with that, and overall I would say it’s NAI. God King and myself played our first game in SE together (QF42). And that was quite a while ago. So I feel your frustration. 

[xinoehp512]

2 minutes ago, Zillah said:

Hey, so I might be completely missing something. But I don’t see what the purpose of having a code at all is? Why not literally just have your name? 

Anyone can post your name in front of their post and claim to be you.

[Zillah]

Just now, xinoehp512 said:

Anyone can post your name in front of their post and claim to be you.

Couldn’t someone just copy the code? I don’t see how it makes a difference. 

[The_God_King]

8 minutes ago, Zillah said:

Hey, so I might be completely missing something. But I don’t see what the purpose of having a code at all is? Why not literally just have your name? 

Mostly to try and make sense of the dead doc. The problem is people can pretend to be each other or pretend to be multiple people so a code works to ID someone. The problem is that this ties into codes, which I refuse to use now, so I won’t participate.
I imagine the codes will be in PM but if a single elim gets ahold of your code all the elims know which give them more power. That’s a real problem I just found in my ramblings

edit: @xinoehp512 what are your thoughts on this?

Edited May 10, 2020 by The_God_King
Lost touch of SE lingo

[Elkanah]

3 hours ago, Karnage said:

I dunno about yall, but this hits me wrong. We don't need a false sense of security, we want to make sure that we have some reason for a lynching after cycle 2. What about yall?

Yeah striker has that effect sometimes. I recommend we keep him around a few cycles, he's pretty astute. Then if he is bad we at least get more out of his lynch.

1 hour ago, Karnage said:

Not gonna lie, when I first read what Elkanah said about taking the lead and breaking any tied votes I was very suspicious. And I think it may still be suspicious, but it does make sense for the first couple of cycles. After that we are giving too much power to a potential elim. 

Fair enough. I meant take the lead in the role play. There's room for two more leaders if you want a spot.

I am breaking ties because lynches are my best source of information. We don't get nearly as much information if we don't vote with the intent of lynching, so I am skipping the conversation where we try to decide whether we should tie the votes by letting you know I will break it.

53 minutes ago, xinoehp512 said:

It's a poke vote: presumably he intends to take it off Joe once he posts something. I think it's a little early in the cycle for poke votes, personally, but overall it's NAI. This makes me slightly suspicious of you, but you're fairly new so I'll cut you some slack for now.

I'd also like to leave Joe for a while. I disagree it's early for pokes. I thought about putting one in my first post. I don't think any of this will turn into anything though. 

Many ninjas. Sorry if I repeat something.

Edited May 10, 2020 by Elkanah
Color

[Coffeecat]

44 minutes ago, The_God_King said:

Sorry to be a bit defensive but having my opinion discounted is not my favorite thing to read

I understand. This is my second game, and I still haven't even finished the first one

 

Other than that...

Hello

have a good day.

it feels good not to have to write exactly 200 words of RP. ;p

 

Lord stalked around the team and swung his arms around one of the smaller trees. he spun off it and launched himself along the path the others of his party left.

He wasn't afraid of shades. Those superstitious idiots were afraid, however.

And, if shades were real, which they weren't, being amongst the others would not help him.

The most dangerous thing in this forest was boredom. And spiders.

And how could he fight boredom? like he always did.

Bothering someone important. Someone powerful.

It was fun when they realized he outwitted them and then used their authority to stop him.

it was also fun to sulk once they did.

 

He touched Cain's right shoulder and immediately spun to be on their left side.

 

"Hey, do you know what the silver lining of all this is?"

Edited May 10, 2020 by Lord_Silberfarben
something bothered me about a scentence

[Karnage]

10 minutes ago, Lord_Silberfarben said:

This is my second game, and I still haven't even finished the first one

I literally pm'ed this exact sentence about an out ago. Great Sanderson Elimination players join at the same time, I guess.

Elkanah, just for role playing I will take your offer, I am still a bit wary of you though.

---

Shroud walked up to Cain after hearing his directions. "Sir whats a half kilometer west of the landmark you mentioned, what is the objective? The group is anxious sir, they need to know what we are doing, as a focus away from the traitors while we figure these messes out."

@Elkanah

[The_God_King]

@Lord_Silberfarben

”the silver lining” He pushed past Cain to reach Silber, “is that our fearless leader hasn’t realized we’re lost yet!” 
this accursed forest wouldn’t even let him voice anything above a whisper so it would be a long night. They had probably been wandering in circles

@Elkanah

@Karnage

”so, what are your plans for the traitors?” Mavet turned to Shroud, “We can’t kill them out here. I wouldn’t dare spill blood anywhere near here and the noise alone would kill us all!”

[Elkanah]

"There's a waystop with a ring of silver." Kendel explained. "We won't be so lucky every night, but if we can make this one we can get some rest."

"The trouble is it's intentionally out of the way. We've found it on less than half of the occasions I've made this trek."

"It is already getting dark, though. Do you think we should set up camp?"

ninja'd by mavet's mutiny

Edited May 10, 2020 by Elkanah

[Coffeecat]

"Oh no killing please," said Lord, "You can't imagine how hard it is to wash these motley clothes"

He looked around.

"This is a good spot for camp as any, right?"

"I am not tired. I could walk all night."

"As for that silver lining..."

Edited May 10, 2020 by Lord_Silberfarben
forgot speech marks

[Elkanah]

"I will admit it's taking longer to get to the waystop than I had hoped. I assure you your goods will arrive on time. We'll just have to set up a camp and rotate watch."

"It'll be a bit less comfortable than most of you are used to, but I warned you we'd have some uneasy nights"

"And there will be no killing" he did a double take at Lord. Clothes really? Nevermind blood would doom us all, but his clothes should survive! This was going to be a long four days.