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CameronUluvara

Sanderson Contradiction?

Question

There appears to be a a contradiction in the stormlight archive between the Eila Stele and the Stormfather’s words.  
The stormfather (In one section) says that the Surgebinders copied what the heralds did. (In another section) that Odium was their first god, before they turned to Honor.

However, the Eila Stele claims that Human Surgebinding existed prior to the move from Braize to Roshar-

prior to the turn from Odium to Honor-

prior to the Heralds.

So Surgebinding, which copies the Heralds, shouldn’t exist until after the Oathpact is begun. And the Oathpact began after the move to Roshar, after Humnas begins to fight against Odium. But the Eila Stele claims that Surgebinding ‘destroyed the human’s lands’.

The only explanation I can come up with for this discrepancy is that the Heralds existed prior to the Oathpact, but the prelude to the way of kings strongly suggests that the Heralds were created specifically for the purpose of the Oathpact, to hold back the Fused and Odium in Braize.

so how does this work?

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Ashyn had it's own magics that were based on the same fundamental Surges, but were not the same application as what the modern Radiants do.  What the modern Radiants do was the result of the Spren copying the Heralds and forming Bonds similar to what the Heralds had with Honor and/or their Honorblades.  Another example of Surgebinding that is not Radiant Surgebinding would be fabrial tech, that is a different application of (and method of accessing) the same Fundamental Surges.  

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Posted (edited)

Ashyn had magic that the singers would probably have called surges and those were used to destroy the place. The spren mimicked the honor blades in particular.

Edited by Karger
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Current theory is that the stele was referring to the Dawnshards, which seems to fit with what Honor said in Dalinar's Visions as well

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Posted (edited)

So there is no wob about the magic system of Ashyn? Cause the Eila Stele says ‘of spren and surges’-does that mean that those who came from Ashyn originally bonded Odium spren? 
And doesn’t the name Dawnshards imply that it is something of/relating to the Dawnsingers (parshendi) not Ashyn Humans?

Edited by CameronUluvara
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The modern Ashyn magic system we know is planned to be disease based, where bacteria and viruses give their hosts access to different Surges so long as they stay infected. As for the old one, I don't think it's certain, but I believe the assumption is that it was Unmade spren which got ushered in when humans arrived on Roshar. To the best of my knowledge, we don't know the mechanism for the old Ashynite Surges though. Maybe they had formal bonds with voidspren, maybe they didn't. 

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Posted (edited)

On 4/29/2020 at 5:11 AM, CameronUluvara said:

So there is no wob about the magic system of Ashyn? Cause the Eila Stele says ‘of spren and surges’-does that mean that those who came from Ashyn originally bonded Odium spren? 
And doesn’t the name Dawnshards imply that it is something of/relating to the Dawnsingers (parshendi) not Ashyn Humans?

Voidbinding may have originated on Ashyn with the humans rather than the Parshendi post humans getting out of Shinovar to conquer Roshar. I don't believe we know the answer to that at this point.

The similarity in name could be coincidental (from a meta perspective, we're supposed to be reading these texts in translation) or the prefix could simply be a linguistic indicator that these things were part of Rosharan pre-history 

Edited by R J
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