+Oltux72 Posted April 21, 2020 Report Share Posted April 21, 2020 Have we ever seen an effect of the light from an infused gem that did not depend on a sentient observer? That is making a photograph under illumination of Stormlight or using it with a lens to start a fire? Yes, it illuminates stuff, but does that tell us that it is really physical reality? I would argue that it does not. It may spread in the CR and cause a sentient observer to notice other things. How could we tell that apart? Does aluminium shine with the color of the spheres you illuminate it with? If it is real light, the Thaylen gem archive is a time bomb. Light is energy. It will ultimately convert to heat. If a normal produces only a tenth of a watt, dozens of millions of gems will give you megawatts of heat. To do this in a closed building without much ventilation will create a job for the firefighters. And it has theoretical implications. Perfect gems will shine for centuries. That means that Stormlight can power end-neutral magic. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quantus Posted April 21, 2020 Report Share Posted April 21, 2020 1 hour ago, Oltux72 said: Have we ever seen an effect of the light from an infused gem that did not depend on a sentient observer? That is making a photograph under illumination of Stormlight or using it with a lens to start a fire? Yes, it illuminates stuff, but does that tell us that it is really physical reality? I would argue that it does not. It may spread in the CR and cause a sentient observer to notice other things. How could we tell that apart? Does aluminium shine with the color of the spheres you illuminate it with? If it is real light, the Thaylen gem archive is a time bomb. Light is energy. It will ultimately convert to heat. If a normal produces only a tenth of a watt, dozens of millions of gems will give you megawatts of heat. To do this in a closed building without much ventilation will create a job for the firefighters. And it has theoretical implications. Perfect gems will shine for centuries. That means that Stormlight can power end-neutral magic. The vast majority of the gems in that archive are not infused as it is too deep to be affected by the Highstorm and they run down in short order, only perfect gems would theoretically pose that sort of danger and they are pretty rare. There's also the very real possibility that the light converts to something other than Heat through a realmic process. We know, for example, just being near infused gems improves crop growth (it's why the singers needed them) so heat may not be the energy's conversion/byproduct. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Honorless Posted April 21, 2020 Report Share Posted April 21, 2020 I think Roshar's form of currency provides adequate answer to the question of whether or not Stormlight's light is Physical or purely Spiritual, given that spheres are gems encased within glass to better distribute its light and is used as a light source by the general populace, including to read and check their reflections. It reflects and it refracts, it's Physical light, it just comes from the Spiritual. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bookish Ocelot Posted April 21, 2020 Report Share Posted April 21, 2020 1 hour ago, R J said: I think Roshar's form of currency provides adequate answer to the question of whether or not Stormlight's light is Physical or purely Spiritual, given that spheres are gems encased within glass to better distribute its light and is used as a light source by the general populace, including to read and check their reflections. It reflects and it refracts, it's Physical light, it just comes from the Spiritual. Maybe it's like the spren. Brandon said somewhere that the surges are based more in the human idea of what a concept is rather than pure science. If stormlight is spiritual, it would obey some but not all laws of physics. For example, it's visible as a mist, unlike normal light. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karger Posted April 21, 2020 Report Share Posted April 21, 2020 5 hours ago, Oltux72 said: Have we ever seen an effect of the light from an infused gem that did not depend on a sentient observer? That is making a photograph under illumination of Stormlight or using it with a lens to start a fire? Plants grow under exposure to it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Oltux72 Posted April 21, 2020 Author Report Share Posted April 21, 2020 16 minutes ago, Karger said: Plants grow under exposure to it. Yes, but what exactly does that tell us? Are you saying that it sustains conventional photosynthesis? Is that remotely compatible with the power levels we have seen? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karger Posted April 21, 2020 Report Share Posted April 21, 2020 6 minutes ago, Oltux72 said: Yes, but what exactly does that tell us? Are you saying that it sustains conventional photosynthesis? Is that remotely compatible with the power levels we have seen? Don't know. No one has said. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frustration Posted April 21, 2020 Report Share Posted April 21, 2020 Sphere's don't emit heat. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master_Moridin Posted April 22, 2020 Report Share Posted April 22, 2020 13 hours ago, Oltux72 said: Have we ever seen an effect of the light from an infused gem that did not depend on a sentient observer? That is making a photograph under illumination of Stormlight or using it with a lens to start a fire? Yes, it illuminates stuff, but does that tell us that it is really physical reality? I would argue that it does not. It may spread in the CR and cause a sentient observer to notice other things. How could we tell that apart? Does aluminium shine with the color of the spheres you illuminate it with? If it is real light, the Thaylen gem archive is a time bomb. Light is energy. It will ultimately convert to heat. If a normal produces only a tenth of a watt, dozens of millions of gems will give you megawatts of heat. To do this in a closed building without much ventilation will create a job for the firefighters. And it has theoretical implications. Perfect gems will shine for centuries. That means that Stormlight can power end-neutral magic. The Stormlight isn't present in the Cognitive. When Shallan is on the ship there are lamps in her room but no illumination related to them while she's in the Cognitive. Important to note two things: Kaladin says you can't feel any heat from a sphere usually, and also Kaladin at one point describes the light of Stormlight as calm, almost cold. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NameIess Posted April 22, 2020 Report Share Posted April 22, 2020 6 minutes ago, Master_Moridin said: The Stormlight isn't present in the Cognitive. When Shallan is on the ship there are lamps in her room but no illumination related to them while she's in the Cognitive. But you can bring spheres into the cognitive realm, and they continue to glow there. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master_Moridin Posted April 22, 2020 Report Share Posted April 22, 2020 4 minutes ago, Nameless said: But you can bring spheres into the cognitive realm, and they continue to glow there. I, yes? I was talking in reference to the proposal in OP that the illumination of Stormlight in the Physical is just it spreading through the Cognitive. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NameIess Posted April 22, 2020 Report Share Posted April 22, 2020 Just now, Master_Moridin said: I, yes? I was talking in reference to the proposal in OP that the illumination of Stormlight in the Physical is just it spreading through the Cognitive. Oh, I see. I don't know what I meant there. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Honorless Posted April 22, 2020 Report Share Posted April 22, 2020 6 hours ago, Master_Moridin said: The Stormlight isn't present in the Cognitive. When Shallan is on the ship there are lamps in her room but no illumination related to them while she's in the Cognitive. When the Highstorm approaches, we see the spheres light up, but that could've been due to perception influencing the Cognitive and Stormlight is currency to the spren 6 hours ago, Master_Moridin said: Important to note two things: Kaladin says you can't feel any heat from a sphere usually, and also Kaladin at one point describes the light of Stormlight as calm, almost cold. Yeah, light from the Spiritual in general always seems to be described as calm and cold or some synonyms of the same 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master_Moridin Posted April 22, 2020 Report Share Posted April 22, 2020 12 hours ago, R J said: When the Highstorm approaches, we see the spheres light up, but that could've been due to perception influencing the Cognitive and Stormlight is currency to the spren When we are following a character who is in Shadesmar, any Stormlight that is in the same location in the Physical does not have a presence or effect in Shadesmar. That's what I was saying. Shallan while Soulcasting the Wind's Pleasure is just an example I was using because it's called out there are infused gems in her cabin, in the Physical, but there is no reference or mention of the Stormlight from them having any effect on her surroundings in Shadesmar. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirNoSell Posted April 22, 2020 Report Share Posted April 22, 2020 It's hard to explain, Stormlight is a form of gaseous investiture as it can manifest as a vapor depending on the circumstance. I'd say the easiest way to describe it is half light/half water vapor. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Oltux72 Posted April 26, 2020 Author Report Share Posted April 26, 2020 On 22/04/2020 at 9:18 PM, Master_Moridin said: When we are following a character who is in Shadesmar, any Stormlight that is in the same location in the Physical does not have a presence or effect in Shadesmar. That's what I was saying. Shallan while Soulcasting the Wind's Pleasure is just an example I was using because it's called out there are infused gems in her cabin, in the Physical, but there is no reference or mention of the Stormlight from them having any effect on her surroundings in Shadesmar. But there is no physical light in Shadesmar. The shadows pointing the other way gets very hard to explain otherwise. Nor is the weather explainable. All those dark areas should heat up beyond touchability and there would be a strong wind at the coasts. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master_Moridin Posted April 30, 2020 Report Share Posted April 30, 2020 On 4/26/2020 at 4:14 AM, Oltux72 said: But there is no physical light in Shadesmar. The shadows pointing the other way gets very hard to explain otherwise. Nor is the weather explainable. All those dark areas should heat up beyond touchability and there would be a strong wind at the coasts. You've entirely missed the point of what I was saying. I made no mention of any kind about physical light or such. Stormlight that is in the Physical, has no visual or illuminatory effect on the equivalent location in the Cognitive, nor do we observe it having a presence of any kind. As such, this theory, On 4/21/2020 at 5:52 AM, Oltux72 said: Yes, it illuminates stuff, but does that tell us that it is really physical reality? I would argue that it does not. It may spread in the CR and cause a sentient observer to notice other things. does not hold up. That is what I was and have been saying. Btw, as an aside, there *is* light in Shadesmar, or at least a form of illumination, given off by the sun and the flames that represent the souls of people. Also by any other light source, such as Stormlight that has been brought *into* the Cognitive, fires, etc. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.