Frustration

A (maybe) small rant about Harmonium.

16 posts in this topic

Ok, so to start off I am aware of this WoB

Spoiler

Argent

Lerasium grants all Allomantic powers when burned. Atium, when used as a spike, can steal any power. Is there a way to create a metalmind that can store anything?

Brandon Sanderson

There is a way to create a metalmind that can store anything.

Argent

Harmonium?

Brandon Sanderson

I’m not saying; I gave you an answer…

Shadows of Self Chicago signing (Oct. 12, 2015)

And this has been bugging me even before I saw this and with the same logic, but why aren't the southern Scandrians using this? Why the whole medallion thing if you can just store/tap everything? Unless perhaps it only let's you tap what you store due to identity but they would(probably) have figured that out. Or would it keep with the same end-neutral as Feruchemy and act as an unkeyed metal-mind and so medallions are still useful being unsealed metal-minds? Anyway that's about it.

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perhaps because harmonium is very rare and very explosive, so it is unsuitable to be worn or used outside of special devices.

furthermore, what would you gain from a harmonium metalmind? just because it can store any attribute, it does not mean it can store them all together. in likely does not: an atium spike lets you steal any attribute, but it does not let you steal all attributes together. so, you cannot use an harmonium medallion to gain more than one power.

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26 minutes ago, king of nowhere said:

perhaps because harmonium is very rare and very explosive, so it is unsuitable to be worn or used outside of special devices.

furthermore, what would you gain from a harmonium metalmind? just because it can store any attribute, it does not mean it can store them all together. in likely does not: an atium spike lets you steal any attribute, but it does not let you steal all attributes together. so, you cannot use an harmonium medallion to gain more than one power.

Agreed.  It also might be a matter of practical complication in storing itself.  Using Hemalurgy in Atium is actually significantly harder than using the more application-specific metals, because the Bind Points become significantly more important and you run a much higher risk of Stealing the wrong thing.  Harmonium metalminds would need be be touched, so Dry hands are a must, and perhaps there would be a risk of mixing different attributes into the same chunk causing some of the interference effects that come up when talking about the metallic arts.

 

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2 hours ago, king of nowhere said:

perhaps because harmonium is very rare and very explosive, so it is unsuitable to be worn or used outside of special devices.

Potentially, but they are taking it into the clouds I think they can keep it from exploding

2 hours ago, king of nowhere said:

furthermore, what would you gain from a harmonium metalmind? just because it can store any attribute, it does not mean it can store them all together. in likely does not: an atium spike lets you steal any attribute, but it does not let you steal all attributes together. so, you cannot use an harmonium medallion to gain more than one power.

Lerasium gets you all of them. But maybe Harmonium would be more of a balance you can store any attribute but not all at once so they fill up seperatelly instead of together?

1 hour ago, Quantus said:

  Harmonium metalminds would need be be touched, so Dry hands are a must, and perhaps there would be a risk of mixing different attributes into the same chunk causing some of the interference effects that come up when talking about the metallic arts.

The medallions don't seem that reactive.

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3 minutes ago, Frustration said:

Potentially, but they are taking it into the clouds I think they can keep it from exploding

not really. there is a fundamental limitation: a metalmind must touch the skin. and harmonium burns in contact with water. and if it burns in contact with water, it is very reactive with a plethora of other substances.

as skin contains water, you should see the problem. I am a chemist, but i don't know any way to solve this; everything that can be done would stop that "touch the skin" condition.

 

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Lerasium gets you all of them. But maybe Harmonium would be more of a balance you can store any attribute but not all at once so they fill up seperatelly instead of together?

 

 

you are right that burning lerasium gives you all. but on the other hand, an atium spike does not give you all.

ultimately, we cannot infer on the effects of harmonium until they are canonized in a book.

Incidentally, i wonder if it would be possible to split harmonium into atium and lerasium. the two separated are much more useful.

 

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The medallions don't seem that reactive.

the medallions are not made of harmonium. all the allomantic metals are not very reactive. some of them will oxydize with time, but none will react violently.

from what little we are told, it seems harmonium is more reactive than cesium, which is the most reactive metal of all.

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19 minutes ago, Frustration said:

The medallions don't seem that reactive.

Harmonium is not involved in Medallions as far as we know, and we dont actually know that it can be used as a metalminds (which is all medallions are at the end of the day). 

It still remains entirely possible that the only Feruchemcical ability of Harmonium is what we have seen of it acting as a mechanical/non-human Emmitter, the same way it does for Allomancy

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4 minutes ago, king of nowhere said:

Incidentally, i wonder if it would be possible to split harmonium into atium and lerasium. the two separated are much more useful.

If this is possible, I think it would explain the metals highly reactive property. The combination of atium and lerasium, two opposing forces, could maybe create a metal that is highly explosive, 

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9 minutes ago, AonNae said:

If this is possible, I think it would explain the metals highly reactive property. The combination of atium and lerasium, two opposing forces, could maybe create a metal that is highly explosive, 

It's technically possible, though through realmic/magical means more than any physical process, in that it's a completely different atom as oppsoed to an alloy of the two or anything like that.  Im not sure if that means it's any different or easier than how it's technically possible to convert entirely different Investitures, like turning Stormlight into actual Breaths that can be used for Awakening, or even how you can technically convert Mists to Lerasium if you know how.  

 

 

Quote

 

Questioner

If I were to alloy atium and lerasium, would I get harmonium? Or is harmonium different after the Shards combined?

Brandon Sanderson

It's different after the Shards combined.

Questioner

If I was to take harmonium and separate it out through distillation, would I get lerasium and atium or something that functions similarly?

Brandon Sanderson

No, you would-- It actually has become a different--

Questioner

Can't be split?

Brandon Sanderson

Yeah. I mean, you could find a way, but you're not going to get it through normal, mechanical means.

Skyward Houston signing (Nov. 19, 2018)

 

 

 

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BlackYeti

Because you've talked about alloying the god metals with other ones-- I was wondering whether you would be able to melt them down as you would with normal metals.

Brandon Sanderson

If you could distill the god metal: you could distill it out of the mist, that's theoretically possible.

Manchester signing (Aug. 6, 2014)

 

 

 

 

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Well, technically we have seen a Metalmind that can store/tap any trait. The Bands

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50 minutes ago, StanLemon said:

Well, technically we have seen a Metalmind that can store/tap any trait. The Bands

Those hardly count as they are a manipulation of putting all the metals together.

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On 22/4/2020 at 1:14 AM, StanLemon said:

Well, technically we have seen a Metalmind that can store/tap any trait. The Bands

 

On 22/4/2020 at 2:05 AM, Frustration said:

Those hardly count as they are a manipulation of putting all the metals together.

more exactly, they are 17 different metalminds put together. 16 for the feruchemical metals, and 1 nicrosil to allow you to burn metals as mistborn.

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37 minutes ago, king of nowhere said:

 

more exactly, they are 17 different metalminds put together. 16 for the feruchemical metals, and 1 nicrosil to allow you to burn metals as mistborn.

Nicrocil is one of the 16.

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On 4/21/2020 at 1:25 AM, Frustration said:

Why the whole medallion thing if you can just store/tap everything?

Perhaps that is the ferechemical property of lerasium that we never learned.  Perhaps you need some other kind of cosmere technology that is not available on scadrail.

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On 4/22/2020 at 9:53 PM, Karger said:

Perhaps that is the ferechemical property of lerasium that we never learned.  Perhaps you need some other kind of cosmere technology that is not available on scadrail.

My headcanon for Lerasium is that it can store Allomantic effects, specifically meaning you could in theory burn Steel and Push on something, but then store the Push inside the Lerasium instead, suppressing it from actually happening but keeping it for later use, safe from being Leeched with Chromium for example.

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25 minutes ago, Halyo_Alex said:

My headcanon for Lerasium is that it can store Allomantic effects, specifically meaning you could in theory burn Steel and Push on something, but then store the Push inside the Lerasium instead, suppressing it from actually happening but keeping it for later use, safe from being Leeched with Chromium for example.

That's hardly balanced by Atium's youth storing.

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On 24/04/2020 at 7:17 AM, Halyo_Alex said:

My headcanon for Lerasium is that it can store Allomantic effects, specifically meaning you could in theory burn Steel and Push on something, but then store the Push inside the Lerasium instead, suppressing it from actually happening but keeping it for later use, safe from being Leeched with Chromium for example.

Isn't that what Harmonium already does?

On 24/04/2020 at 7:43 AM, Frustration said:

That's hardly balanced by Atium's youth storing.

It causes what Ruin in some interpretation is: decay. If you wished to take that to the logical conclusion, Lerasium would store age, in effect granting eternal life.

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