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CameronUluvara

Venli’s spren

Question

The description that Jasnah reads of Truthwatcher spren sounds-or looks?- like Timbre. Is this confirmed, that Venli is going to be a Truthwatcher? And how does Timbre keep a voidspren captive? 

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Venli's spren was a lightspren (or Reacher), which is the spren of the Willshapers. Truthwatcherspren look like light that's been reflected off a mirror, where Timbre is closer to a comet made of light. 

As to how Timbre keeps a voidspren captive...my guess is some form of suppression is happening within Venli's gemheart where Timbre functionally surrounds the Voidspren and only the barest bit of Connection to Venli remains, likely just enough to keep her in her Voidform. 

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According to Brandon, historically, it hasn't happened before.

Quote

Questioner

Can Parshendi bond with an honorspren? I mean, spren <inaudible>

Brandon Sanderson

They would have to choose, it's never happened before. On Roshar they would say it’s impossible. That doesn’t mean it actually is.

Kraków signing (March 21, 2017)
Quote

Questioner (paraphrased)

How about the other way around? Can a Parshendi bond a Knights Radiant spren?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

Historically, the Parshendi were not made Knights Radiant, or the parshmen weren't.

Questioner (paraphrased)

Can they become squires maybe?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

Historically they did not, but it's not impossible.

Words of Radiance Houston signing (March 11, 2014)

 

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Posted (edited)

9 minutes ago, CameronUluvara said:

The description that Jasnah reads of Truthwatcher spren sounds-or looks?- like Timbre. Is this confirmed, that Venli is going to be a Truthwatcher? And how does Timbre keep a voidspren captive? 

I believe Timbre is a Lightspren

Maybe Venli swearing the oath made Timbre strong enough to capture a voidspren?

Im not sure how though

Edited by Eternal Khol
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Posted (edited)

37 minutes ago, Invocation said:

As to how Timbre keeps a voidspren captive...my guess is some form of suppression is happening within Venli's gemheart where Timbre functionally surrounds the Voidspren and only the barest bit of Connection to Venli remains, likely just enough to keep her in her Voidform. 

Why does it need to be captured anyway?

 As far as we know the spren can't leave the gemheart unless the singer willingly lets it(to change forms)

 

Edited by Eternal Khol
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1 minute ago, Eternal Khol said:

Why does it need to be captured anyway

The alternatives were one of the Fused finding Timbre's hiding spot or Timbre shoving Venli out of her form and immediately revealing to them that something is horribly wrong, either of which would have lead to Venli's immediate execution. 

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Posted (edited)

9 minutes ago, Invocation said:

The alternatives were one of the Fused finding Timbre's hiding spot or Timbre shoving Venli out of her form and immediately revealing to them that something is horribly wrong, either of which would have lead to Venli's immediate execution. 

So it was all just to survive. 

The old rhythms and Glowing Eyes at will are just perks of that happening?

Can listeners bond KR spren and not have them in their gemheart?

Edited by Eternal Khol
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Posted (edited)

3 minutes ago, Eternal Khol said:

The old rhythms and Glowing Eyes at will are just perks of that happening?

As far as I know, yes. But I want to stress, this is literally unprecedented, so I don't know fully.

3 minutes ago, Eternal Khol said:

Can listeners bond KR spren and not have them in their gemheart?

Well that's the funny thing. Venli is the first parsh to ever be able to bond a Radiant-spren in such a way as to gain their powers. No idea what changed (but probably Honor's death) or why that changed this, but it did!

Edited by Invocation
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17 minutes ago, Invocation said:

Well that's the funny thing. Venli is the first parsh to ever be able to bond a Radiant-spren in such a way as to gain powers

She is?

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Just now, Eternal Khol said:

She is?

As far as anyone is aware, she is. The Dawnchant has several references to the depth of human bonds granting them their Radiant abilities. I think one is something like "Broth are we but their meat is men," and while some of the forms of power have their abilities, Radiancy is not a thing that seemed to have been possible for the parsh in the days of old.

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3 minutes ago, Invocation said:

As far as anyone is aware, she is. The Dawnchant has several references to the depth of human bonds granting them their Radiant abilities. I think one is something like "Broth are we but their meat is men," and while some of the forms of power have their abilities, Radiancy is not a thing that seemed to have been possible for the parsh in the days of old.

"The betrayal of spren has brought us here. / They gave their Surges to human heirs, / But not to those who know them most dear, before us."

this one is relevant too

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Posted (edited)

Actually she’s not the first. In WoR, one of the listener stanzas at the beginning of the chapter is

But it is not impossible to blend

Their surges to ours in the end 

 

Edited by CameronUluvara
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Posted (edited)

5 minutes ago, Eternal Khol said:

"The betrayal of spren has brought us here. / They gave their Surges to human heirs, / But not to those who know them most dear, before us."

this one is relevant too

Yes it is, and illustrates the point even better, honestly. Radiancy was a human thing, and potentially even the Horneaters and Herdazians would have been less likely to form a bond due to parsh blood (but that's a little crackpot, honestly). 

4 minutes ago, CameronUluvara said:

Actually she’s not the first. In WoR, one of the listener stanzas at the beginning of the chapter is

But it is not impossible to blend

Their surges to ours in the end 

That was a prophecy, not a current event. 

Edited by Invocation
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Posted (edited)

How do you know?

It also says in this same stanza

We question if....we dare to have them again

Edited by CameronUluvara
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Just now, CameronUluvara said:

How do you know?

Quote

Nightform predicting what will be,
As the gods did leave, the nightform whispered.
A new storm will come, someday to break.
A new storm a new world to make.
A new storm a new path to take, the nightform listens.

We know they had a form for that, we know that at the time of writing that they were still trying to figure it out (or they likely wouldn't still be talking about it like that), and we know that the above bit about Nightform shows that their new path would come in the future. Stands to reason that was part of the Nightform prophecy. 

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Also, the Fused seemed to be looking for Timbre near the end of Oathbringer, so he must have known it was possible or he wouldn’t have cared.

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Just now, CameronUluvara said:

Also, the Fused seemed to be looking for Timbre near the end of Oathbringer, so he must have known it was possible or he wouldn’t have cared.

Odium knows it's possible, and I'm fairly certain what they were looking for was a spanreed more than anything. Odium doesn't seem like the kind of being to trust Venli very much after she'd been pulled into Dalinar's vision, not to mention that Nightform was part of his voidform stuff anyway and likely derives from his own futuresight so he probably knows about that prophecy anyway.

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Posted (edited)

What about the rest of the stanza? How does that look like a prophecy?

We question if....we dare to have them again.

Edited by CameronUluvara
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