Why are there no Electrum Nicrosil Combo Burners in Era 2?

[Karger]

We know from the dramatic ending of HoA that if one burns all of a temporal metal (in this case atium) then they get a full of stars moment that allows them to see into the spiritual realm.  Because of this shouldn't Electrum Nicrosil combo burners be everywhere gaming the stock market, messing with Harmony's foresight, and generally making scadrial a more mystical place?  Or does this only work with atium but something else weird happen with gold and electrum.  Basically what does this WoB mean when it says "more interference".

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Wigginns

What would a Hemalurgic spike granting atium do for an Allomancer already able to burn atium? Does it function similarly to bronze, granting enhanced atium-ing? Along this line of thought, would enhancing electrum burning via spike be of any advantage?

Brandon Sanderson

A spike of something you have would enhance your ability, giving your more strength. With atium, more strength makes for a minimal edge--the length you can push out the atium shadows. However, there's a certain breaking point where you kind of crack the whole system, peer straight into the [Spiritual Realm], and kind of have a "It's full of stars" moment.

Electrum could reach this same moment, potentially, though there's more interference to fight through. Extra strength in electrum isn't going to be terribly useful up to that point.

Alsadius

Is that what happened when atium was burned with duralumin?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes.

Footnote: In his original response Brandon mistakenly said burning atium and duralumin would cause the Allomancer to peer into the Cognitive Realm, rather than Spiritual Realm. He has since confirmed that this was a mistake.
/r/books AMA 2015 (Aug. 1, 2015)

 

Edited April 17, 2020 by Karger

[Frustration]

25 minutes ago, Karger said:

We know from the dramatic ending of HoA that if one burns all of a temporal metal (in this case atium) then they get a full of stars moment that allows them to see into the spiritual realm.  Because of this shouldn't Electrum Nicrosil combo burners be everywhere gaming the stock market, messing with Harmony's foresight, and generally making scadrial a more mystical place?  Or does this only work with atium but something else weird happen with gold and electrum.  Basically what does this WoB mean when it says "more interference".

 

Because any twinborn Combos are rare, there are(If math is correct) 1024 types of Twinborn and twinborn make a small percent of the population anyway

Edit: my math is wrong you can be a Feruchemist/misting Twinborn so the actual number is 1040

Edited April 17, 2020 by Frustration

[Karger]

21 minutes ago, Frustration said:

Because any twinborn Combos are rare, there are(If math is correct) 1024 types of Twinborn and twinborn make a small percent of the population anyway

A twinborn of this type is not viable.  You need two people.  Sorry if that was not clear.

[Frustration]

3 minutes ago, Karger said:

A twinborn of this type is not viable.  You need two people.  Sorry if that was not clear.

    Oh, your getting around the no-mistborn thing oh. A Twinborn could theoretically have the same affect but this HHhhmm.

    I'm going to say that they don't know about it, that both are too expensive to just test things on, and that if it did happen that they might go insane.

Edited April 17, 2020 by Frustration

[Karger]

27 minutes ago, Frustration said:

    Oh, your getting around the no-mistborn thing oh. A Twinborn could theoretically have the same affect but this HHhhmm.

No.  These are two distinct alomantic abilities.  Twinborn get one alomantic one feruchemical.  Vin used deraluminum but recently they discovered nicrosil that does the same thing for other people.

29 minutes ago, Frustration said:

    I'm going to say that they don't know about it, that both are too expensive to just test things on, and that if it did happen that they might go insane.

I think they can afford a few ounces of gold and silver.  Ditto for nicrosil.  They have tested speed bubbles against each other so some one is doing research on combo moves.  As to them going insane that might happen but Elend does not seem to have. SA spoilers 

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Ditto for Kaladin in OB

 

[Frustration]

3 hours ago, Karger said:

No.  These are two distinct alomantic abilities.  Twinborn get one alomantic one feruchemical.  Vin used deraluminum but recently they discovered nicrosil that does the same thing for other people.

I Know.

3 hours ago, Karger said:

 As to them going insane that might happen but Elend does not seem to have. SA spoilers

Elend did it once

SA

Spoiler

Kal saw three things not the SR

You know who did?

Dalinar, you know who almost whent insane?

Dalinar

 

[The Cardinal of Death]

you could probably get it to work but the problem is seeing into the greater spiritual realm atium sees the future of others so with extra push form an outisde force makes it much easier to glimpse the spirtual realm as a hole the interferance from electrum and gold is very likely since it is locked to the spiritual outcomes of one person youd have to carve threw that first then it should work without that personal barrier boosted atium gives a greater glimpse into the greater future factering in many other people so it also possible the elctrum could do the same but would be less impressive in what one sees 

Edited April 17, 2020 by the cardinal of death

[NameIess]

9 hours ago, Karger said:

SA spoilers 

You used a quote box.

1 hour ago, the cardinal of death said:

you could probably get it to work but the problem is seeing into the greater spiritual realm atium sees the future of others so with extra push form an outisde force makes it much easier to glimpse the spirtual realm as a hole the interferance from electrum and gold is very likely since it is locked to the spiritual outcomes of one person youd have to carve threw that first then it should work without that personal barrier boosted atium gives a greater glimpse into the greater future factering in many other people so it also possible the elctrum could do the same but would be less impressive in what one sees 

And because of the power difference between Atium and Electrum.

[+Oltux72]

On 17/04/2020 at 5:54 AM, Frustration said:

Because any twinborn Combos are rare, there are(If math is correct) 1024 types of Twinborn and twinborn make a small percent of the population anyway

Edit: my math is wrong you can be a Feruchemist/misting Twinborn so the actual number is 1040

16 ordinary metals. So the numer is 16 times 16. That gives you 256. If atium Mistings can become Twinborn, you get 17 * 16 = 274. If there are Ferrings of atium and they combine, you get 289.

[Frustration]

3 hours ago, Oltux72 said:

16 ordinary metals. So the numer is 16 times 16. That gives you 256. If atium Mistings can become Twinborn, you get 17 * 16 = 274. If there are Ferrings of atium and they combine, you get 289.

oh, I put 32 instead of 16 in, and there are no more seers/ atium ferrings but you can have a feruchemist misting combo so it's  272

[Raphaborn]

I wouldn't doubt that this is one of the Set's research focuses. After all, they just need a Nicroburst to make this work.
The general society, except Kandras and Terrismen, are very apathetic in the development of Invested Science. After The Lost Metal I doubt it will continue.
 

[Karger]

5 minutes ago, Raphaborn said:

The general society, except Kandras and Terrismen, are very apathetic in the development of Invested Science. After The Lost Metal I doubt it will continue.

So another reason to be exited.  Cool.

[Kingsdaughter613]

F. Nicrosil and A. Electrum would work. Use Nicrosil to store the Electrum investiture, then pull it all out at once while burning for a massive surge...

[Karger]

On 5/8/2020 at 4:26 PM, Kingsdaughter613 said:

F. Nicrosil and A. Electrum would work. Use Nicrosil to store the Electrum investiture, then pull it all out at once while burning for a massive surge...

Potentially but it would also require a hyperspecific combination.

[Halyo_Alex]

17 minutes ago, Karger said:

Potentially but it would also require a hyperspecific combination.

Well now with the Medallions, anyone with A-Electrum will be potentially capable of that.

[Karger]

6 minutes ago, Halyo_Alex said:

Well now with the Medallions, anyone with A-Electrum will be potentially capable of that.

Or just using deralumin.

[Halyo_Alex]

Just now, Karger said:

Or just using deralumin.

Well yes. I wonder if these would work with A-Gold too.

[spaidapig]

16 hours ago, Halyo_Alex said:

Well now with the Medallions, anyone with A-Electrum will be potentially capable of that.

I dont think they are that common rn, and atm only the firemothers, I think thats how they were called, can create them/know how to charge them.

And not even the Terris people understand the process of storing Investiture.

16 hours ago, Karger said:

Or just using deralumin.

But with the right supply, this should be a lot easier than Nicrobursting a mate

[Dunkum]

On 4/17/2020 at 7:58 AM, The Cardinal of Death said:

you could probably get it to work but the problem is seeing into the greater spiritual realm atium sees the future of others so with extra push form an outisde force makes it much easier to glimpse the spirtual realm as a hole the interferance from electrum and gold is very likely since it is locked to the spiritual outcomes of one person youd have to carve threw that first then it should work without that personal barrier boosted atium gives a greater glimpse into the greater future factering in many other people so it also possible the elctrum could do the same but would be less impressive in what one sees 

Should also note that Atium is a god metal, so there is plenty of reason to believe that it is just better at its job than electrum is, which would mean that the sort of transcendant future sight experience Elend got might simply not be possible using electrum..

Also, for what its worth, we havent really seen many depictions of seeing the future from non-shards, even Elends example we don't actually get a description of.  its entirely possible that the experience is so esoteric that it would be difficult to gain specific insight into something as minute or mundane as stock prices, particularly for someone whose mind hasn't been expanded to be able to handle the information they are seeing.  its also possible that in the flood of information one would see doing this sort of thing that it is really only possible to retain big-picture things.  Imagine speed-reading an entire multi-volume set on the history of say the 1940s and then trying to remember the results of specific horse races, or what company was doing well in the stock market on a specific day.  and of course you may also not have enough context from the future sight to be useful.  if you knew in 1925 that a depression and a major war were going to happen soon, but didn't know the specific years, then that might not help you too much.  you could end up selling stocks years too early for the crash and ruining yourself.  and there's no guarantee that your future sight would include such mundane things as glimpses at calendars or the dates of events.

[Light In the Darkness]

I'd also like to point out that if you did break through to the Spiritual Realm, then you would probably be blinded by the people. The people are the focus of the SR, so while, since everything has a soul there, you might be able to see the stock market reports, it would be very very hard. And do to the Future's uncertain nature, you probably would only know about a crash or spike a couple of minutes in advance. The Fortune attribute that Feruchemists store seems a more likely candidate for the kind of havoc that was asked about at the top of the thread.

[Karger]

15 minutes ago, Light In the Darkness said:

The Fortune attribute that Feruchemists store seems a more likely candidate for the kind of havoc that was asked about at the top of the thread.

That one is a bit strange.  We don't really know how it works.

[Light In the Darkness]

True. I'm looking forward to how it is explored in later boooks.