Moblea

I have a question

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How does compounding metals work?

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I would refer you to the coppermind page on compounding I have included a link.

https://coppermind.net/wiki/Compounding

after you read that if you still have questions look back here at the experienced sharders post that will likely explain everything. Basically compounding is a way that some of the stuff that you have stored in metals is released in a burst of power

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Yeah, I still don't really understand compounding and when I first read Mistborn I just sat in bed for like 30 minutes trying to get my head around it.

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So, the simplest answer is that when burning metals, an Allomancer is drawing power and that power is shaped by the type of metal they are burning. When they burn a Metalmind, the trait stored in the Metalmind changes the form the power they drawing takes. Because of that, rather than than getting the power they would normally get from the burned metal, they instead gain a boost of the trait in Metalmind

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5 hours ago, StanLemon said:

So, the simplest answer is that when burning metals, an Allomancer is drawing power and that power is shaped by the type of metal they are burning. When they burn a Metalmind, the trait stored in the Metalmind changes the form the power they drawing takes. Because of that, rather than than getting the power they would normally get from the burned metal, they instead gain a boost of the trait in Metalmind

this of course raises the question of "can you burn a Hemalurgic spike to compound the charge inside that" or no.

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1 hour ago, Halyo_Alex said:

this of course raises the question of "can you burn a Hemalurgic spike to compound the charge inside that" or no.

Well, the charge of a Hemalurgic spike is fundamentally different than the charge of a Metalmind. A spike holds a torn off piece of someone's Spiritweb. Also Brandon has said that burning a spike splices that piece of the Spiritweb into the Allomancer and has strange side effects.

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Just now, StanLemon said:

Well, the charge of a Hemalurgic spike is fundamentally different than the charge of a Metalmind. A spike holds a torn off piece of someone's Spiritweb. Also Brandon has said that burning a spike splices that piece of the Spiritweb into the Allomancer and has strange side effects.

well, it's still investiture inside metal. and it comes from someone's innate investiture. Both a nicrosilmind and a spike can hold investiture that says "this person can burn/tap X metal" or a pewtermind and an iron spike "this person is able to lift Y lbs", just via different means.

If [SA/Warbreaker Spoilers]

Spoiler

Vasher can consume Stormlight to feed his Divine Breath instead of consuming normal Breaths from Nalthians

then I'm pretty sure an Allomancer could do something with the charge inside a hemalurgic spike.

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Posted (edited)

@Halyo_Alex Here is what Brandon has to say on the matter.

Maru Nui

What happens when you burn a Hemalurgic spike?

Brandon Sanderson

Burning a Hemalurgic spike would have the effect of splicing your spiritual DNA to that of the person's that is in the spike, which would have some very strange consequences.

 

And we will get an answer at some point

 

Questioner

Will there ever be an Allomancer trying to burn a Hemalurgically charged metal?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes.

 

This possibly might be an indication of the fundamental differences of Metalmind vs spike charge

Questioner

If someone had a Hemalurgic spike and they burned aluminum, would the negation of-- am I going to get RAFO'd?

Brandon Sanderson

You're asking if it would destroy the Hemalurgic power? Burning aluminum at that point would not destroy the Hemalurgic power. It would pull the Investiture through whatever you're doing. It would blank your power, but it wouldn't destroy you being an Allomancer with the spike...

I actually considered this in building it and that would be too easy a way to remove Inquisitors, particularly if there were dissension between them.

 

 

With most Metalminds, they just hold a well of power that was stored and tapped, much different than a Hemalurgic charge which is more like a spiritual genetic graft. What makes it confusing though is Nicrosil Feruchemy which seems to store the part of the Spiritweb that has the ability into their Nicrosilmind which is a fair bit different than any other Metalmind we know about with the possible exception of Copperminds. It seems to be an almost non lethal version of Hemalurgy. We'll probably just have to wait until we know more about Nicrosil Feruchemy to understand what distinguishes it from Hemalurgy

 

Edit:wow my quote formatting freaked out there. I hope I got it fixed enough to still make sense


Edited by StanLemon
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Think of it as changing the metal's power from being allomantically aligned to Feruchemically aligned, but still getting allomancy's energy positive boost.

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I personally think of it as diverting a river.  You still get the "force" of allomancy but it flows through a pathway decided by the trait stored rather then by the metal.

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On 4/15/2020 at 6:06 PM, FantasyFanitic said:

Yeah, I still don't really understand compounding and when I first read Mistborn I just sat in bed for like 30 minutes trying to get my head around it.

Don't feel too bad, it was kind of dropped out of the sky in the first book and Sazed's explanation that "[The Lord Ruler] effectively created a new metal for himself" was pretty confusing. Rashek didn't create a new metal chemically, but Allomantically - in terms of the Allomantic effect of it.

If you're an Allomancer, you can burn some brass, say, and gain something you didn't used to have at all: the ability to Soothe emotions in other people. Which you can dial up or down with "flares" to influence emotions to a greater degree, or to a wider range. That "gained something for free" is an "end-positive" result, and that extra-ness derives from the power of Preservation.

If you're a Feruchemist, you can store body heat into a brassmind, but with a net-zero effect. You can store X units of heat into it, whether a lot at once or at slow rate over a long period of time, and then later tap it for the body heat back, again either in a large burst or slowly over time.

Feruchemical metalminds are stamped with Identity (by default...), so that only the Feruchemist who stored that attribute into the metalmind can then tap it to get it back out. As Sazed describes it, another Feruchemist trying to tap his metalinds would only sense the attributes therein (know that something' there), but not be able to access it - which was the same thing that happened when Vin tried to Allomantically burn one of his small pewterminds.

Compounding is achieved when you CAN access the Feruchemical attribute in the metalmind, AND have the Allomantic ability to burn the type of metal it's stored in. Now you get the "net positive, get something for free" behavior of Allomancy, but instead of the ability burning the metal normally gives you, the effect is redirected to give you more of the Feruchemical attribute as the "something for free".

Brandon's called it a "magical hack", which probably is a direct reference to the Magic: The Gathering card Magical Hack (as he's known to be a big MtG fan). He's said that Feruchemy is one of the first magical mechanisms he's ever come up with on his own, going back to when he was a student with insomnia and wished he could store up wakefulness to use later. So I wouldn't be surprised if playing a blue deck featuring Magical Hack while coming up with the mechanics of Allomancy made him think, hey, what if you could hack one magic's mechanics to get the effect of another one?

It's never actually stated in the books just how much more you get for free via Compounding, since Compounding ability is so rare that nobody's really done any research and documenting of it (those we can do it, keep it a secret), but we have WoBs that give the factor as about 10x. 

In all of Scadrian history, Rashek was the first person to be able to do this, and he worked very hard to ensure that he'd be the ONLY person able to do this.

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