Karger

How Allomancy Changed.

28 posts in this topic

A very very long time ago I encountered this WoB.

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rags

How is Harmony balanced when a part of Preservation's power is expended on human sentience? Isn't that what caused all the trouble to begin with?

Brandon Sanderson

Indeed. Hm... What could Sazed be doing with that extra power...

17th Shard Forum Q&A (Sept. 26, 2012)

Recently I did a reread of Mistborn Era two.  It must of jogged my memory somehow because I suddenly thought this...

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Questioner

So, did Sazed change that no more Mistborn are born? Because I noticed that--I know he made Spook one-- in Alloy they talk about Mistborn...

Brandon Sanderson

The idea is-- I won't say absolutely no to Sazed's manipulation. But, there weren't any Mistborn other than him that survived. The Allomantic lines were very diluted. So, his direct descendants-- you might be able to even find one potentially now. Someone might be born, or one might have been born that didn't tell people about it. But in the general public and population, it's just, there's not as much Allomancy around... He did also change Snapping, which had an effect on it.

Firefight Miami signing (Jan. 8, 2015)

and this...

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Ruin could plan and carefully plot, knowing if he built one thing up, he could use it to knock down two others. (Hero of Ages)

To anyone who has seen any Mistling in action this line sounds familiar.  This led me to what seems now like an obvious theory.  Saze uses his extra Ruin to snap people and to fuel their allomancy.  This might explain why snapping is easier in era two and happens automatically.  As Ruin notes in secret history.  Preservation's power is not designed to make holes in things.  Allomancy however depends on those holes existing in peoples souls.  Using Preservation's power is like trying to drill with a mallet as opposed to the sharp implement that is Ruin's power.  Also by making a large number of allomancers Sazed's power is bled off.

Am I on to something or is quarantine with nothing to do making me go crazy?

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Very good. I never would have thought of this, though I have wondered why Sazed didn't remove Hemalurgy.

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5 minutes ago, Frustration said:

Very good. I never would have thought of this, though I have wondered why Sazed didn't remove Hemalurgy.

He couldn't.

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By far the best explanation I've seen for the altered snapping.

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3 minutes ago, Elsecaller_17.5 said:

By far the best explanation I've seen for the altered snapping.

Thanks!

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Now, I mean, the biggest hole I see in this theory is that Allomancy is supposed to be entirely of Perservation- so increasing the number of Allomancers wouldn't bleed off the excess Ruin power. But that's not actually a crucial part of the theory and it's a plot point that I never liked anyway. 

And under this theory, both Allomancy and Feruchemy would be now using a combination of Preservation and Ruin; both magic systems are now of Harmony. Which I like a lot better. 

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4 minutes ago, Gilphon said:

Now, I mean, the biggest hole I see in this theory is that Allomancy is supposed to be entirely of Perservation- so increasing the number of Allomancers wouldn't bleed off the excess Ruin power

I can't find any reference from post ascension times that states that.

6 minutes ago, Gilphon said:

And under this theory, both Allomancy and Feruchemy would be now using a combination of Preservation and Ruin; both magic systems are now of Harmony. Which I like a lot better. 

Explains why hemalurgy is still so problematic.

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4 hours ago, Karger said:

Explains why hemalurgy is still so problematic.

Will be interesting to see if Harmony tries to change that somehow.

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8 hours ago, Halyo_Alex said:

Will be interesting to see if Harmony tries to change that somehow.

Hm.  Wonder what that might look like?

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Posted (edited)

I always imagined that he was using the excess Ruin to fend off what ever the redness that he shows to Wax is (presumably another Shard).

I also assumed that the Mists snapped everybody now. Like Mist "sickness" was just something you got as a child if you were an Allomancer. In effect, the first time you went out into the Mists, it awakened your Allomancy.

Edited by SwordNimiForPresident
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1 hour ago, SwordNimiForPresident said:

I also assumed that the Mists snapped everybody now. Like Mist "sickness" was just something you got as a child if you were an Allomancer. In effect, the first time you went out into the Mists, it awakened your Allomancy.

If that were the case many children might still die regularly by going out into the mists.

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Posted (edited)

1 hour ago, Karger said:

If that were the case many children might still die regularly by going out into the mists.

Given the late 19th century setting, I would guess that the child mortality rate is quite a bit higher than it is today. It could also be that Sazed changed it so that it doesn't make you sick anymore, it just activates your latent power. It could just as easily be that Allomancers are just born with their powers I guess. I think Feruchemists work that way. I guess snapping was really only necessary to further the plot in Era 1 anyway. Brandon needed a way to drop an army of Atium Mistings on the story at the right time. Now that that has been done, it servers no purpose.

Edit: He also needed a reason for Kelsier to not start out with his powers, but that is also gone so yea..

Edited by SwordNimiForPresident
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31 minutes ago, SwordNimiForPresident said:

It could also be that Sazed changed it so that it doesn't make you sick anymore, it just activates your latent power.

I don't think Sazed would be comfortable doing something that could potentially kill children to give them powers they don't really need. 

32 minutes ago, SwordNimiForPresident said:

It could just as easily be that Allomancers are just born with their powers I guess

They are but snapping is necessary relmatically not just for plot reasons.

33 minutes ago, SwordNimiForPresident said:

I guess snapping was really only necessary to further the plot in Era 1 anyway. Brandon needed a way to drop an army of Atium Mistings on the story at the right time. Now that that has been done, it servers no purpose.

Even if that is true Brandon would still find a way to make it make sense.  He is basically famous for that.

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12 minutes ago, Karger said:

I don't think Sazed would be comfortable doing something that could potentially kill children to give them powers they don't really need. 

They are but snapping is necessary relmatically not just for plot reasons.

Even if that is true Brandon would still find a way to make it make sense.  He is basically famous for that.

How would it kill them? The line you quoted states that maybe it doesn't make them sick anymore.

It's "necessary" for them to have "cracked souls". Meh. You can gain powers a bunch of ways that don't involve trauma, medallions being the obvious example. Breath and Honor blades are good second and third options.

I never said anything about it making sense or how famous the author is, I simply pointed out that it was a necessary plot device that became irrelevant and has since been removed.

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2 minutes ago, SwordNimiForPresident said:

How would it kill them? The line you quoted states that maybe it doesn't make them sick anymore.

Exactly so he must have done something. 

2 minutes ago, SwordNimiForPresident said:

It's "necessary" for them to have "cracked souls". Meh. You can gain powers a bunch of ways that don't involve trauma, medallions being the obvious example. Breath and Honor blades are good second and third options.

Alomancy requires cracked souls.  The other powers might be a toss up but that has always been made clear.

3 minutes ago, SwordNimiForPresident said:

I never said anything about it making sense or how famous the author is, I simply pointed out that it was a necessary plot device that became irrelevant and has since been removed.

OK.  So how do you think he is going to explain the removal of this particular plot device.  He has had years to think about it.

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1 hour ago, Karger said:

Exactly so he must have done something.

Which is exactly what all of my posts have implied...

1 hour ago, Karger said:

Alomancy requires cracked souls.  The other powers might be a toss up but that has always been made clear.

Sazed can change anything he wants as it relates to Allomancy, it's his magic system. This entire thread is literally about what he changed. Saying that anything is "required" is meaningless when anything can be changed.

1 hour ago, Karger said:

OK.  So how do you think he is going to explain the removal of this particular plot device.  He has had years to think about it.

Well I already said. I think he made it so that the Mists "snap" everyone now.

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1 minute ago, SwordNimiForPresident said:

Sazed can change anything he wants as it relates to Allomancy, it's his magic system. This entire thread is literally about what he changed. Saying that anything is "required" is meaningless when anything can be changed.

If he could do literally anything he wanted in regards to the three metallic arts then he probably would have made some significant hemalurgy alterations considering his disapproval of it.

2 minutes ago, SwordNimiForPresident said:

Well I already said. I think he made it so that the Mists "snap" everyone now.

OK.  How do they do that considering mist sickness is not a thing(I am pretty sure)?

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Posted (edited)

12 minutes ago, Karger said:

If he could do literally anything he wanted in regards to the three metallic arts then he probably would have made some significant hemalurgy alterations considering his disapproval of it.

Obviously there are limits.. that being said, at a minimum, Sazed can change what the Mists do, which metals can be burned, and what powers are available. These are all things that we saw Laras change in Era 1.

edit: we also know that Sazed can change how snapping works, because of the WoB you put in your original post.

12 minutes ago, Karger said:

OK.  How do they do that considering mist sickness is not a thing(I am pretty sure)?

How should I know? I'm not the author. Sazed said "hmmm, this snapping thing sucks a fat one. I'm gonna change it. Going out in the Mists activates their powers now" and so it was. The Mists are Lerasium. Anyone can burn it in Solid form. It powers Allomancy in vapor form. It doesn't seem like such a stretch that it can activate latent powers related to the Shard that it originates from if said Shard decided to make it do that.

Edited by SwordNimiForPresident
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2 hours ago, Karger said:

Alomancy requires cracked souls.  The other powers might be a toss up but that has always been made clear.

One word, Lerasium.

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41 minutes ago, SwordNimiForPresident said:

Anyone can burn it in Solid form. It powers Allomancy in vapor form. It doesn't seem like such a stretch that it can activate latent powers related to the Shard that it originates from if said Shard decided to make it do that.

If that were the case staying out in the mists long enough would make everyone a mistborn.

7 minutes ago, Frustration said:

One word, Lerasium.

Saze would probably not walk to make any as that would unbalance him farther.  Lerasium seems like brazing where as normal snapping is like hooking in the power.  I don't think it makes sense for Saze to braze on the power to each allomancer manually if my solution is possible.

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1 minute ago, Karger said:

Saze would probably not walk to make any as that would unbalance him farther.  Lerasium seems like brazing where as normal snapping is like hooking in the power.  I don't think it makes sense for Saze to braze on the power to each allomancer manually if my solution is possible.

I was saying that Lerasium doesn't require snapping.

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3 minutes ago, Frustration said:

I was saying that Lerasium doesn't require snapping.

You were correct.  I was wrong.

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6 hours ago, Karger said:

If that were the case staying out in the mists long enough would make everyone a mistborn.

Reread what I wrote and then decide if your response makes sense.

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1 minute ago, SwordNimiForPresident said:

Reread what I wrote and then decide if your response makes sense.

Not really kind of sort of.  Point taken.   Still I think my solution is the simplest and most elegant as it solves multiple problems.

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Birth trauma, most likely. It was enough to snap Vin. Lowering the snapping threshold would enable infants to Snap due to being born.

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