Frustration Posted April 6, 2020 Report Share Posted April 6, 2020 (edited) Magic in the Cosmere all comes from Adonalsium or one of the shards. Magic also all seems to have specific "Aspects" that it uses to function Namely the four spiritual atributes Connection fortune Investichure Identity And the ten surges Adhesion gravitation division abrasion progression ilumination transformation transportation Cohesion Tension Most magic seen can be ascribed to combinations of these aspects for example Allomantic steelpushing is an application of gravitation via ones connection to metal or potentially the investitures connection to metal. A reader experienced in knowledge of the Cosmere will wonder why there are only fourteen aspects that magic draws upon when the Cosmere's number of choice is sixteen, it is the opinion that more will be revealed by the release of Dragonsteel but that the remaining two aspects have something to do with the unexplained magic such as allomantic soothing which seems to use connection, but how specifically that relates to manipulating emotions is unclear at this time. Other factors can influence magic without themselves being how the magic operates(though they usually play a part of the use of magic) Namely Intent Perseption these two are the cause of much of Cosmere magic's operation as what one intends to happen usually does. This is explicate in AonDor as such vague one word terms would be easily misinterpreted without intent playing it's part. Other such factors are Shape Color Weather Shardaic filtering Shape is again manifested best in AonDor, but allomancy gains it's power from the shape of metals atomic structure, and it is because of this that Booknerd inc's Cosmere division has developed the theory that Aluminum's structure is similar to a drain causing it to be almost impossible to affect with magic due to magic used on it to be siphoned away, where it goes is still unknown. Color is best revealed to affect magic on Nalthis with Awakening, but it also play's into other shards having their own color scheme and Orders of Knights Radiant having their colors as well. Weather is Shown best on Roshar as affecting Magic with both the Highstorm and the Everstorm acting as wells of investiture, the Mists of Scandrial also serve this purpose. Within the Cosmere one must be aware of a few things magic can't do, or is limited in. Foresight is severely limited in the Cosmere and anyone who has even poor foresight will weaken and distort all others. No Cosmerian magic can affect the BeyondEdit. Edit: @Karger here how allomancy fit's into this I am working on Feruchemy Spoiler All things contained here have some affiliation with Investiture and Identity and so these will only be listed when they are of significant importance Pewter: Identity, (potentially progression) Tin: Identity, Illumination (Potentially progression) Steel: Connection, gravitation (modifier shape) Iron: Connection, gravitation (modifier shape) Bronze: Connection, investiture (Potential illumination, and a if possible a pushing version of perception) Copper: Connection, investiture (constricting the flow of bronze) Brass: Connection, Investiture(there is a WoB about needing sentience but I can't find it now) (Potential Progression) Zinc: Connection, Investiture(there is a WoB about needing sentience but I can't find it now) (Potential Progression) Malatium: Connection, Fortune Atium: Connection, fortune (possible progression and illumination) Electrum: Connection, fortune, Identity (possible progression and illumination) Gold: Connection, fortune, Identity Bendalloy: Identity, Gravitation(WoB Spoiler EricLake @BrandSanderson In M:AoL, will bendalloy’s time dilation result in redshifting of light going in/out of the bubble? #weescience Brandon Sanderson I’ve been working on the science of it. Basically, I’ve been treating it as a gravitational time dilation. But only focused inward, and equally, on those inside the bubble. It’s making my brain hurt a bit, but I think I’ve got it working I think this means yes to a gravitational redshift. But . . . it gets wacky. Trying to decide just what it would do is tough. General Twitter 2010 (Nov. 22, 2010) ) (potentially Fortune) Cadmium: Identity, Gravitation, (potentially Fortune) Dur-aluminum: Investiture, Identity (Shape modifier) Aluminum: Investiture, Identity (Shape modifier) Nicrosil: Connection Investiture (Shape modifier) Chromium: Connection Investiture (Shape modifier) Edited April 7, 2020 by Booknerd 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karger Posted April 6, 2020 Report Share Posted April 6, 2020 21 minutes ago, Booknerd said: And the ten surges Really? I suppose Rosharan scholars would agree but what about aons? What surge is aon omi? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frustration Posted April 6, 2020 Author Report Share Posted April 6, 2020 13 minutes ago, Karger said: Really? I suppose Rosharan scholars would agree but what about aons? What surge is aon omi? Aon tia is the Surge of transportation, but I have no idea what Omi does please explain. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eternal Khol Posted April 6, 2020 Report Share Posted April 6, 2020 39 minutes ago, Booknerd said: Namely the four spiritual atributes Connection fortune Investichure Identity Actually it's Connection fortune Intent Identity 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StanLemon Posted April 6, 2020 Report Share Posted April 6, 2020 I disagree that the Surges are a fundamental part of the Cosmere. While they are based on fundamental forces, that doesn't make the Surges themselves fundamental. Your Steelpush doesn't work with Gravitation for example. The description of what a Steelpush is like is vastly different than how Lashings are described. It's more likely that Surges are merely how the magic system codifies its effects on physics 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StanLemon Posted April 6, 2020 Report Share Posted April 6, 2020 @BooknerdAon Omi creates a light and alters the emotions of anyone exposed to it making them calm and difficult to have negative emotions. It's similar to a Soothing 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frustration Posted April 6, 2020 Author Report Share Posted April 6, 2020 (edited) 5 minutes ago, StanLemon said: @BooknerdAon Omi creates a light and alters the emotions of anyone exposed to it making them calm and difficult to have negative emotions. It's similar to a Soothing well light is part of the surge of Illumination and I mention that I am unsure of how Emotional manipulation fit's into this understanding of the Cosmere. 9 minutes ago, StanLemon said: The description of what a Steelpush is like is vastly different than how Lashings are described. Lashings are also filtered through Honor not Preservation(Should probably add shardaic filtering) 9 minutes ago, Eternal Khol said: Actually it's Connection fortune Intent Identity Please double check the ARS Arcanum at the back of BoM the Coppermind and this question It's investiture. Edited April 6, 2020 by Booknerd 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StanLemon Posted April 6, 2020 Report Share Posted April 6, 2020 Just now, Booknerd said: Lashings are also filtered through Honor not Preservation(Should probably add shardaic filtering) What I meant here isn't how the power is obtained but their effects. Lashing alter how gravity applies to the thing Lashed, Steelpushes/Ironpulls are more kinetic than that. They are a new force being applied. F-Steel and F-Iron don't fit cleanly into this either. F-Steel is clearly not Abrasion and Brandon has said that F-Iron is not gravitational. I do understand where you are coming from with this theory though, my friend who introduced me into the Cosmere has a similar theory and he's made some very good points. I personally though think that the Surges are merely codifying and grouping similar interactions rather than being fundamental to the Cosmere themselves. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karger Posted April 6, 2020 Report Share Posted April 6, 2020 14 minutes ago, Booknerd said: well light is part of the surge of Illumination and I mention that I am unsure of how Emotional manipulation fit's into this understanding of the Cosmere. What about awakening? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frustration Posted April 6, 2020 Author Report Share Posted April 6, 2020 5 minutes ago, Karger said: What about awakening? Tiny amounts of cohesion, investiture, Identity. No specific Surge most of the time. Intent is super important. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eternal Khol Posted April 6, 2020 Report Share Posted April 6, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, Booknerd said: Magic also all seems to have specific "Aspects" that it uses to function Namely the four spiritual atributes Connection fortune Investichure Identity Investiture isnt an aspect of magic. It is magic. The others, Connection, Fortune, Identity and Intention, all play roles in what that investiture(or magic) does or how it can be accessed Edited April 6, 2020 by Eternal Khol 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frustration Posted April 6, 2020 Author Report Share Posted April 6, 2020 1 minute ago, Eternal Khol said: Investiture isnt an aspect of magic. Investiture forms sentience in the Cosmere that is necessary for magic to function, additionally investiture is the fuel source for magic and influences it quite heavily investiture resists investiture and all that. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karger Posted April 6, 2020 Report Share Posted April 6, 2020 1 hour ago, Booknerd said: Tiny amounts of cohesion, investiture, Identity. No specific Surge most of the time. Intent is super important. and just soothing? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frustration Posted April 6, 2020 Author Report Share Posted April 6, 2020 5 minutes ago, Karger said: and just soothing? ??? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karger Posted April 6, 2020 Report Share Posted April 6, 2020 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Booknerd said: ??? What surge is that? Also all of temporal alomancy. Edited April 6, 2020 by Karger 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frustration Posted April 6, 2020 Author Report Share Posted April 6, 2020 Just now, Karger said: What surge is that? Also all of temporal alomancy. As I said 2 hours ago, Booknerd said: A reader experienced in knowledge of the Cosmere will wonder why there are only fourteen aspects that magic draws upon when the Cosmere's number of choice is sixteen, it is the opinion that more will be revealed by the release of Dragonsteel but that the remaining two aspects have something to do with the unexplained magic such as allomantic soothing which seems to use connection, but how specifically that relates to manipulating emotions is unclear at this time. Most of temperal Allomancy is Fortune. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steel Inquisitive Posted April 6, 2020 Report Share Posted April 6, 2020 It's a cool thought. I'm pretty sure by the end of the cosmere we'll have a complete chart for cosmere magic which will be cool. I can't agree with all the above but it's fun to debate! The two missing forces might be Pushing and Pulling. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karger Posted April 7, 2020 Report Share Posted April 7, 2020 2 hours ago, Booknerd said: As I said I suppose it works as a theory although I personally dislike it. It reminds me too much of the early 3 or 4 element paradigms used by theorists that was based on observation without experimental proof. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frustration Posted April 7, 2020 Author Report Share Posted April 7, 2020 59 minutes ago, Karger said: I suppose it works as a theory although I personally dislike it. It reminds me too much of the early 3 or 4 element paradigms used by theorists that was based on observation without experimental proof. I prefer to think of it as theorization on higher spacial dimensions, and how exactly do you expect me to experiment? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karger Posted April 7, 2020 Report Share Posted April 7, 2020 10 minutes ago, Booknerd said: I prefer to think of it as theorization on higher spacial dimensions, and how exactly do you expect me to experiment? I don't but at the same time I think any experimentation would throw up a lot of flaws in your model. I also don't see what good the model itself does. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frustration Posted April 7, 2020 Author Report Share Posted April 7, 2020 1 minute ago, Karger said: I don't but at the same time I think any experimentation would throw up a lot of flaws in your model. I also don't see what good the model itself does. What good does this site do us? What good is lesser spren theory? For a real world example what good is string theory? It's fun stop being a downer and just enjoy it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karger Posted April 7, 2020 Report Share Posted April 7, 2020 Just now, Booknerd said: What good does this site do us? What good is lesser spren theory? For a real world example what good is string theory? It's fun stop being a downer and just enjoy it. I am not trying to be a downer I am trying to explain why I happen not to enjoy it. If you do like this theory more power to you. As to your other examples. Lessor spren offers an explanation to a question I have. This site gives me a place to discuss cosmere. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frustration Posted April 7, 2020 Author Report Share Posted April 7, 2020 1 minute ago, Karger said: I am not trying to be a downer I am trying to explain why I happen not to enjoy it. If you do like this theory more power to you. As to your other examples. Lessor spren offers an explanation to a question I have. This site gives me a place to discuss cosmere. Very well, but what does string theory give you? But personally I like putting these things together and forcing random people on the internet to listen to thoughts I have. And listing potential ways the Cosmere works because that's my thing. If you have any feedback on how I can improve for Vol. 3 please list it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karger Posted April 7, 2020 Report Share Posted April 7, 2020 Just now, Booknerd said: Very well, but what does string theory give you? Ten years late with that one! https://www.wired.com/2010/09/stringy-quantum/ 1 minute ago, Booknerd said: But personally I like putting these things together and forcing random people on the internet to listen to thoughts I have. And listing potential ways the Cosmere works because that's my thing. If you have any feedback on how I can improve for Vol. 3 please list it. I think you need a better system for incorporating temporal and emotional effects. A good starting point (if you think it is worth the effort) would be making sub models of the weirder powers(like temporal and emotional effects) and explaining how they are created via illumination, fortune, and connection. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Honorless Posted April 7, 2020 Report Share Posted April 7, 2020 (edited) I would say Investiture is the matter/energy equivalent in the Cognitive and Spiritual Realms and all magics are either: 1) exchanges of matter / energy with Investiture cost (heat, light, explosions,...) 2) an effect of the two metaphysical Realms (Fortune for futuresight, travel via the Cognitive or Spiritual) Or an interplay of both (1) and (2) (this is what most of the magics are) Investiture does appear in the Spiritual quadrant of Feruchemy alongside Connection, Fortune and Identity. We don't know what Intent is, but I believe it's tied to Identity (sDNA) and Cognitive perception as a switch to access Investiture. I would say Surges are fundamental forces of the Rosharan system (hence the 10 Surges) and the fundamental forces manifest differently in the other Shardworlds. Edited April 7, 2020 by Dreamer edited for clarity 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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