Invocation

Why five Oaths?

23 posts in this topic

Why not 10? Was 5 Oaths multiplied by 2 Surges enough to satisfy the 10-theme? What happened there?

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5 for Honor 5 for Cultivation? and then you go super saiyan 

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17 minutes ago, Invocation said:

Why not 10? Was 5 Oaths multiplied by 2 Surges enough to satisfy the 10-theme? What happened there?

My personal theory fro that is that there are ten parts, three in the first (i.e. life before death1. strength before weakness 2.), one in the second and two in each after and so on. Lightweavers make that a problem though.

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Posted (edited)

Maybe the numbers are a Shard thing, rather than a Shardworld thing, so 10 for Honor and 5 for Cultivation? *shrugs*

I think they are a Shardworld thing but just maybe

Also, I think 5 was attribute to somewhere/someone else

Edited by Dreamer
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16 minutes ago, Dreamer said:

Also, I think 5 was attribute to somewhere/someone else

If it is it's either Ishar or Nohadon

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5 is half of 10, and more controllable in a series than 10, imo.

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I... don't think there's a super in-depth reason for this, to be honest. It's about as many as Brandon can reasonably make work; 40 full Oaths, each having philosophical and emotional weight behind them is already a lot.

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Neither shard directly created the oaths(to the best of our knowledge).  Perhaps the basis for the oaths was created by a human working from a human template and decided that five would work better/was the required number.

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41 minutes ago, Booknerd said:

If it is it's either Ishar or Nohadon

I meant a Shard. It was Endowment, if I recall correctly

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Just now, Dreamer said:

I meant a Shard. It was Endowment, if I recall correctly

Oh, you weren't referring to someone making five oaths.

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Just now, Booknerd said:

Oh, you weren't referring to someone making five oaths.

Were the Oaths made?

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Just now, Dreamer said:

Were the Oaths made?

Well Ishar organized the Orders, and the Knights organised themselves after The way of Kings by Nohadon so maybe?

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1 minute ago, Booknerd said:

Well Ishar organized the Orders, and the Knights organised themselves after The way of Kings by Nohadon so maybe?

I wondered about that, if you're interested: 

 

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Ten Oaths would mean ten levels of power, which would ultimately convert to 20 SA books, which would be too dastardly at this stage.

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Maybe each ideal just doubles as an oath and a form of personal growth. So no real need to have ten when you 'honor' honor and cultivation in each ideal.

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There are ten Surges on Roshar, and ten Honorblades for the ten Heralds, and the ten Fools; those are the main expression of Honor's "magic number" on Roshar...

The Five Ideals of the Nahel Bond represent an increasing depth, as in composition or an alloy, between the Radiant's soul and the Identity-cum-Investiture of the spren. That means fully embracing "what it means" to BE that kind of a Radiant at a deeper and deeper level.

So, why stop at five? Maybe because that's the 50% mark, and to go further than the Fifth Ideal one would mean becoming more spren than human. Like, if the dial "goes to ten" for 100% where being 100% is being the spren, then a 50/50 split between human and spren is the maximum bond possible, right?

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Maybe two entities, going through five Oaths together, equals ten something?

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10 was too much, would make the radiants progression slower 

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10 oaths could also get really paralyzing. Even 5 seems to take a lot of choice away from the orders. These are things you're dedicating your life to at risk of killing a good friend and constant companion. Kaladin has to protect people, even ones he doesn't like. He has to throw his life on the line. And will have to for the rest of his life. No lasting peace unless the world is at peace and then there's always violence. He finds out, he has to help. 

Think about how much burn out there is among social workers. Lift will never not be able to Listen to the unheard even if it gets to be too much  Even if it's breaking her. Once they start talking she has to listen. And I'd argue avoiding them is breaking her oath too. There's going to be a lot of cracked people out there she's listening to. 

In that light being a Radiant is hard. Every one is lost choices. Often they will be choices the radiant would have sided with the oaths on anyway, but we've seen first hand how challenging even 3 of the oaths can be. 

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It's supposed to feel like the Knight has progressed in some significant way with each oath they swear. 10 oaths would have made that a lot harder to do. I'm sure there's some in world reason, but from a author/reader perspective, 10 is just too much. 

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Posted (edited)

IMHO the oaths are a “connection” the spren makes with the humans sDNA.  I think the spren came up with the initial number.  With each oath the spren is allowed to bind theirs to the human.  Lightweavers “oaths” after the first are truths .... I have a feeling they will need the same number as the other orders ( 4 more ).   I also have a feeling that the oaths and truths are in fact infinite.... the deeper the truth and the more oath you bring to the bond, the deeper the bond will be.   I don’t think we will see a “Super Radiant” but certainly a master class Radiant who has greater intuition about spren bonds and the use of their surges in ways that other Radiant will not be able to muster.

example Syl:  each time Kal “says the words” he has to “feel” the oath first.   He has to believe it.  Afterwards he “feels” stronger with Syl and they both show increased capacity.  That strength has to be the healing done to he Spirit Web by Syl.   ... if only Kal could just “...get over himself...” Lol

My weird thought:  multi spren bonding (as has been theorized) should only be available to someone whose spirit web is soooooo wrecked to have enough bind points to allow it...

Edited by XeGnome
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4 would be too easy. 6 is too hard to keep track of. 5 is perfect.

 

 

 

 

 

 

PS- I don't think there's some special in World reason

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I think that before the arrival of Honor and the codification of the Nahel Bond by Ishar, there was no limit on the number of paths that could be sworn, and subsequently no limit on the merger of the Cognitive aspects of the Radiant and the spren, and therefore no limit on the volume of Investiture that the combined being could wield. The destruction of Ashyn could have been caused by unregulated use of Investiture, after all...

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