Halyo_Alex

Reverse Compounding 2.0, now with actually Reversed Compounding

8 posts in this topic

Ok, so, bit of explanation up front about the long-winded topic tile. My first ever post on the forums was a Reverse Compounding theory (based on the WoB of there being "a way to enhance allomancy using feruchemy" (see following spoiler for the wob).

Spoiler

Chaos (paraphrased)

I continued to ask about the Lord Ruler and his Allomantic strength.

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

There's an upper bound to the amount of power you can get from being a savant. Brandon said that, obviously, the Lord Ruler wasn't using duralumin and Elend could only get that powerful in Soothing using duralumin. He implied that there was a way to Compound to enhance Allomancy.

Alloy of Law 17th Shard Q&A (Nov. 5, 2011)

In it, I went over how Compounding F-Nicrosil charged with an allomantic power would likely result in being able to become vastly stronger with that metal, which I still believe is true. I do NOT, however, still believe that to be "real" Reverse Compounding. It does involve using Feruchemy to enhance Allomancy, as per the Wob, but I think there's a second possibility, one that isn't limited to Nicrosil Compounding. (Y'know what, from henceforth, I will use C-Nicrosil/gold/etc to denote Compounded metals. It's just quicker and more concise.)

This second possibility is that a Compounder can store the Allomantic effect of their metal inside a Metalmind, charging it up with the allomantic power instead of the usual feruchemical attribute. There's a certain symmetrical simplicity to that which makes me think I'm on the right track. Now the main benefit here is that you can keep burning the metal and charging up the metalmind with it, and after you're done, you have a feruchemically-stored supply of Allomantic power. So now you can make use of Feruchemy's greatest feature and tap a HUGE amount of allomantic power out in a short burst, almost like a Duralumin burn. The obvious example would be Steel, wherein you can Push with potentially hundreds of times the normal force you can muster, possibly launching a coin at railgun-level speeds, or fling yourself high into the sky with one leap. Another advantage this has over A-Duralumin burns is that the exact amount of power you muster can be fine-tuned, meaning you can also be more subtle with, let's say Steel again, and easily hover using ground anchors without needing as much practice in managing your allomantic steel burn rate/power.

Now the first argument I could see against this is "well if that's how it works, why haven't we seen it yet" and, well, I think the answer is kind of obvious. In the case of Miles, doing this was pointless. He doesn't need finesse or brute force with A-Gold, he needs F-Gold charge en-masse. It's also possible that it's just too tricky of a balancing act to do BOTH at once, and so he just focused on doing normal C-Gold since Reverse C-Gold is just as useless as unmodified A-Gold.

The other part of the answer is, well, we HAVE. The Lord Ruler could soothe in a HUGE radius, with soul-crushing potency. He may have known about Nicrosil, and so may have used normal C-Nicrosil to boost up his potency in A-Brass, but I feel like something's missing there. Surely if he was constantly burning brass to do that, he would have to be constantly chugging Brass flakes or poking brass spikes (not hemalurgic ones) into himself to burn, which seems crude and clumsy. Surely he of all people would learn how to Reverse Compound, and that's how he Soothes in such a radius at such power at seemingly all hours of every day. He's using RC-Brass and tapping it constantly. In fact, he could actually still be consuming brass metal to Soothe with, but that Brass could be supercharged with Allomantic brass power, making it even more powerful when burned. At the very least, that would significantly reduce the interval at which he would need to burn Brass, which would make things a lot less obnoxious. Just fill a brass ring with A-Brass, and Reverse Compound it, then store it in a full-sized Brassmind.

 

I dunno, I feel like this lines up really nicely, and the poetic symmetry of it literally being the reverse of normal Compounding makes it even more plausible to me. What do you think, though? Where did i slip up in my logic?

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Posted (edited)

I'm just going to leave this here - it's my first post on the shard in 2013. 

Edit: On the last page, there is a meaningful WoB in a post quoting Satsuoni which is relevant to this discussion.

Edited by 18th Shard
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Actually, The Lord Ruler used the Well of Ascension to give himself his allomantic strength:

Quote

Chris King

Did the Lord Ruler use lerasium to gain his super Allomantic abilities or did he grant that to himself with the Well's power? If he used the bead, does he count as one of the nine original Allomancers that Sazed mentions?

Brandon Sanderson

Excellent question. He did not use the bead. He-- In all of this he granted himself basically, he rebuilt himself to be extremely powerful and he did not use one of the beads.

 

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Just now, Nameless said:

Actually, The Lord Ruler used the Well of Ascension to give himself his allomantic strength:

 

Ok yes, but still, it would mean he would be burning through loads of Brass constantly to smother the emotions of the people surrounding him. That alone seems suspicious, if nothing else. Suspiciously inconvenient for someone who wants to appear as godlike at all hours as TLR.

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Just now, Halyo_Alex said:

Ok yes, but still, it would mean he would be burning through loads of Brass constantly to smother the emotions of the people surrounding him. That alone seems suspicious, if nothing else. Suspiciously inconvenient for someone who wants to appear as godlike at all hours as TLR.

He has vastly higher efficiency. Look at what Wax could do with only a few vials of metal. (Also, if this works, then why wouldn't the bands be charged with allomancy?)

 

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1 minute ago, Nameless said:

He has vastly higher efficiency. Look at what Wax could do with only a few vials of metal.

Okay, fair. Especially since he did it with the Well and not other methods.

1 minute ago, Nameless said:

(Also, if this works, then why wouldn't the bands be charged with allomancy?)

See, that's what I thought the killer to this theory would be, but then I realized; would Kelsier even know that it could be done? Intent is probably super important for this to work. If he didn't know that he could, he probably just couldn't. It isn't something that'll just happen like how just burning tin enhances your senses. It requires conscious effort to push the power around like that. I dunno.

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Just now, Halyo_Alex said:

See, that's what I thought the killer to this theory would be, but then I realized; would Kelsier even know that it could be done? Intent is probably super important for this to work. If he didn't know that he could, he probably just couldn't. It isn't something that'll just happen like how just burning tin enhances your senses. It requires conscious effort to push the power around like that. I dunno.

Kelsier held the power of Preservation for a much longer time than The Lord Ruler, and figured out how to make medallions, so he should know how to do that.

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To start let me make sure I understand your premise. A compounder (let's say zinc) can not only store mental speed and then burn it to get a huge amount of mental speed, but also store rioting and tap it and increased levels?

Assuming I understand you correctly, I don't think so. We've only gotten 1 compounded point of view and yes Miles wouldn't be terribly interested in RC Gold, but there's still no indication its possible. In this case I believe the simplest solution is the most likely. TLR compounded Nicrosal and regularly gagged down pounds of brass.

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