Is it """wrong""" that I enjoy depictions of nudity in fantasy fiction?

[Guest _Shallan_]

Not just for this series, but in others as well.  It's a topic I have been wanting to post about on this board for this series, and in other fantasy novels as well.  I don't mean the creepy Game of Thrones torture or assault types mind you, because I'm pretty sure we are not meant to enjoy such scenes, so hopefully you do not get me wrong.

There are lots of examples I could state, but I don't know if spoiler warnings/tags are required for such a discussion if it concerns scenes from various fantasy novels or not.  Please let me know if this is a discussion that would require the use of spoiler tags.  I may use them in some instances just to be safe.

[Quantus]

No such thing as a "wrong" way to enjoy fiction 

[Guest _Shallan_]

I ask because I am not sure what it is like discussing this sort of thing in fantasy fiction among fans, but I have noted that in the video game world, forums are very much antonistic of anyone that enjoys fanservicey type things.  usually throw around typical buzzwords like "incel, basement dweller, virgin", ect.

I'm hoping the reading community is more mature than that.

[Karger]

I mean you are not hurting anyone by doing so.  I personally think that many authors include those kinds of scenes gratuitously which I find irritating rather then for the purposes of storytelling(which I find perfectly acceptable).

[Guest _Shallan_]

I suppose it's One reason why I named my acount the way that I did and used the picture that I have.  Felurian is a Fae who lives out in the forests and is always naked, among other things and I like her character for her character for how she's not afraid to live that way in front of men, and what I assume is prob women as well.

  WarBreaker had a lot of nudity in it and Elend once joked to Vin that he would love to see her fight while she is Naked In Mistborn book 2.  He's not the only one.

[Snakenaps]

I have absolutely no problem with nudity in novels, as long as it is in good taste. By good taste, I mean that it adds to the story. Now, if in a book, a character walks into a store and there is just a random naked person...well, there has better be a good reason for a naked person to be standing there, you know? 

I view nudity in the same way that I view violence and...hmmm, I don't want to go against community guidelines...let's say getting down and dirty. If it adds to the story, then I'm down for it. If it jerks me out of a story and feels shoehorned in, I'm not going to enjoy it.

If you enjoy nudity in books, read away. There's no harm as long as you recognize fiction vs reality and don't go to Walmart in your birthday suit, you know? Unless you are at someplace that is legal, of course. But, I mean, that applies to any type of book. Cops don't like it when people carry around broadswords in public either, most of the time. And hopefully your favorite crime novel isn't going to make you turn into a serial killer. 

That's my take, anyway. 

[Honorless]

I don't like fanservice-y type nudity or where it's the only selling point. If it's part of the story though, then yes absolutely. I don't mind any series exploring a character's sexuality: like really, I don't mind, at all, most of the time I'm not gonna connect with them all that much anyway since I'm not straight. But yeah, hormones and horniness, I understand.

I'm really not a fan of unnecessary violence in media though, which I think is a much more reasonable stance to take.

Actually, reading the above comment, I wouldn't mind absolutely needless, random nudity. Here's one from the Bible: "And a certain young man followed him, wearing nothing but a linen cloth; and they seized him, but he left the linen cloth and ran away naked". That's it. The naked man doesn't appear again. 

Edited April 4, 2020 by Dreamer

[AonEne]

Disclaimer, this is all just my opinion and I definitely don’t mean to offend anyone. 

I don’t think it’s necessarily wrong to enjoy scenes with nudity. It would depend on the context, for me - you liking Felurian because of how it’s part of her personality is one thing, someone who enjoyed assault scenes (as you said you didn’t) would be another. If someone’s seeking out and reading scenes with nudity for sexual pleasure, for example, that’s a type of pornography, which I disapprove of in all forms. But if it’s just something you specifically note as interesting in books, then I don’t think it’s any more wrong than liking a certain type of plot point, ship dynamic, or cliche. 

Personally, I don’t like reading scenes where there’s a focus on someone being naked because they make me uncomfortable, but so long as they’re not needlessly descriptive/straying into porn territory and are adding something to the story, I have nothing against authors writing them. Same with violence and scenes containing sex, like others have said above: if it’s actually part of the story and isn’t going into really gory stuff or details not strictly needed, I don’t mind it. 

(Well, in theory and logically, I don’t mind it. I tend to cringe while reading anything close to a sexual act. ) 

2 hours ago, Dreamer said:

Here's one from the Bible: "And a certain young man followed him, wearing nothing but a linen cloth; and they seized him, but he left the linen cloth and ran away naked". That's it. The naked man doesn't appear again. 

A wild Certain Young Man appeared! 

You used Seize! It’s super effective! 

The Certain Young Man fled! 

Edited April 4, 2020 by AonEne
I had a double space between words and it was killing me

[Snorkel]

As others have said, I'm OK when it's relevant to the story.

Felurian was fine, all the details felt like they were important and added to the story.

 

George R. R. Martin was over the top. Did we really need to know the shade and texture of every other character's pubic hair?  Nope.  That stuff to me just seems like it's written by a teenager for other teenagers.

[Guest _Shallan_]

24 minutes ago, Snorkel said:

As others have said, I'm OK when it's relevant to the story.

Felurian was fine, all the details felt like they were important and added to the story.

 

George R. R. Martin was over the top. Did we really need to know the shade and texture of every other character's pubic hair?  Nope.  That stuff to me just seems like it's written by a teenager for other teenagers.

Yeah, He's really weird in that kind of thing.  Never been a fan of his to be honest.

[Elend Venture]

On 4/4/2020 at 6:17 PM, -Felurian- said:

Never been a fan of his to be honest.

His pubic hair? 

 

 

Okay, okay, I know what you really meant 

[Guest _Shallan_]

11 hours ago, Elend Venture said:

His pubic hair? 

 

 

Okay, okay, I know what you really meant 

[+Ark1002]

I personally have a very simple viewpoint on this: to each their own.

As long as it isn't, as you said, torture or gore, there is no problem with that. Go ahead and enjoy it. I don't think there is anything wrong with that myself.

[Orlion Blight]

What you enjoy personally in your reading hobby? It's not anyone's business to police. To say it is "wrong" tends to be some religious culture hangups meant to control instead of enforce any sort of morality. 

If you enjoy it? If it gives you thrills on Blueberry Hill? Great! Enjoy away! 

If you don't like it? Whatever, you do you, but don't force your preferences on others and call it morality.

Now, the question about how to discuss it in a public forum like 17th Shard? That's a whole other question that would be guided by forum policy and administration ruling. 

[Guest _Shallan_]

1 hour ago, Orlion the Platypus said:

What you enjoy personally in your reading hobby? It's not anyone's business to police. To say it is "wrong" tends to be some religious culture hangups meant to control instead of enforce any sort of morality. 

If you enjoy it? If it gives you thrills on Blueberry Hill? Great! Enjoy away! 

If you don't like it? Whatever, you do you, but don't force your preferences on others and call it morality.

Now, the question about how to discuss it in a public forum like 17th Shard? That's a whole other question that would be guided by forum policy and administration ruling. 

 

 

The titles I used was more of a question just to get the topic started in general, not so much me caring about what people think about the matter of me enjoying it.

It's not always a religious thing, at least not in my experience.  You may (or may not?) be suprised to know how many times on the internet I have been attacked for posting thoughts on the issue of fanservice across entertainment media in which the people flaming me where definately not religious.  One recent case was a user with a signature that stated "The commercial says church is not for perfect people.  I guess that's why I'm an atheist."  Due to the nature of what he was posting about me, I won't be able to copy that part of the conversation because the forum mods and admins in question are very lax compared to this one.

 

Speaking of a signature, I need to think of a good one here.

Edited April 8, 2020 by -Felurian-

[Orlion Blight]

16 minutes ago, -Felurian- said:

 

 

The titles I used was more of a question just to get the topic started in general, not so much me caring about what people think about the matter of me enjoying it.

It's not always a religious thing, at least not in my experience.  You may (or may not?) be suprised to know how many times on the internet I have been attacked for posting thoughts on the issue of fanservice across entertainment media in which the people flaming me where definately not religious.  One recent case was a user with a signature that stated "The commercial says church is not for perfect people.  I guess that's why I'm an atheist."  Due to the nature of what he was posting about me, I won't be able to copy that part of the conversation because the forum mods and admins in question are very lax compared to this one.

 

Speaking of a signature, I need to think of a good one here.

On the first sentence, that's good to hear! Too often, it's what I assumed. 

On the bulk of your response, I think there is a slight disconnect, so I will try to clarify what I mean by "religious hangup". It's not just when the local churches organize something like a boycott and bookburning, it's that the influence has a sociological impact on our actions. 

Kinda like how there are few to no Puritans in the US today, but due to their influence in and on our early history, a lot of their values, like being very hardworking, have become US values. 

So you are correct: objections would come from believer and nonbeliever alike, though I think the nonbelievers' objections are the result of religious influence...but I also guess that isn't too on-topic either 

[Guest _Shallan_]

10 minutes ago, Orlion the Platypus said:

On the first sentence, that's good to hear! Too often, it's what I assumed. 

On the bulk of your response, I think there is a slight disconnect, so I will try to clarify what I mean by "religious hangup". It's not just when the local churches organize something like a boycott and bookburning, it's that the influence has a sociological impact on our actions. 

Kinda like how there are few to no Puritans in the US today, but due to their influence in and on our early history, a lot of their values, like being very hardworking, have become US values. 

So you are correct: objections would come from believer and nonbeliever alike, though I think the nonbelievers' objections are the result of religious influence...but I also guess that isn't too on-topic either 

Nah you are fine.  I just notice a strange double standard when it comes to things like this.  For instance, over at video game forums, I have gone on record as saying that I think both of these characters are sexy beasts, but I only ever seem to catch hell over saying this about the female character.  Nobody gives a damnation when I say a male character is sexy.  First character is Gladio from Final Fantasy XV, the female is Sophitia from SoulCalibur.

[Snakenaps]

My female roommate is currently playing Alexios in Assassin's Creed: Odyssey just so that she can admire his looks and voice. I'm playing Kassandra because I wanted to be a woman, just like myself. Both of us are in the right. 

I think any large community can become poisonous and hypocritical. The Shard is so small that I haven't seen that here yet, but I definitely saw it in the Steven Universe fandom. Be it media, sports, politics, religion, a hobby, anything, snotty people will rise and make others miserable. It definitely occurs in the equine community. People can get really opinionated about horses. 

[Orlion Blight]

Ooff... I'd forgotten how crazy internet communities could be...

It's why a strong moderating presence is necessary to establish as clear as possible the guidelines and enforce them. Otherwise you get nonsense interactions (I'm sure it "makes sense" to the individual in the moment, but it ultimately doesn't. As seen with the Steven Universe and K-pop fan communities).

[AonEne]

Just because someone’s morals are different from yours, that doesn’t mean they’re bad people. That applies to everyone, whether religious or not. And trying to spread your morals doesn’t make you bad either - almost everyone does that  

[Toaster Retribution]

I think a reason for the hate in video gaming communities is that video games are quite famous for objectifying people, especially women. Recent ads for Raid: Shadow Legends have been doing this for example, by mostly showing very lightly dressed female heroes who have bodies like supermodels. And that is just an example. People are (rightly, in my opinion) protesting this, sometimes for feminist reasons (it is sexist) and sometimes because objectifying people is generally seen as bad. Then add the fact that video game communities are often quite toxic in general for some reason, and you have your answer as to why you can get hate in those communities. 

My opinion on these kinds of issues is that sex and nudity are parts of life, and as such, will figure as a factor in fiction which portrays life. However, I think that any kind of gratitious/pornographic portrayal is wrong. I dont agree with looking at/watching/reading things for sexual reasons either. I am a fan of GRRMs characters and storytelling, but his sex scenes, not so much.