Mid-Range Game 41 / Anonymous Game 8: Lord of Chaos

[Ivory Dragonfly]

Well, this is an interesting turn of events... Two people claiming roles that might be elims, or at best SKs?

40 minutes ago, Coral Swan said:

I think my vote will go on Mouse for now. Their vote on Dragonfly feels odd to me, given that Dragonfly had already posted and several others hadn't.

That vote was probably just an effort to get me to post more than a "what you're all saying sounds interesting" kind of post. Speaking of which, it's time I remove my vote. Mouse.

I see no reason we should lynch Swan over anyone else, so I'll refrain from joining that wagon.

I'm curious as to how Dingo knows so much.

[Azure Mouse]

@Coral Swan I was on mobile at the time, and when I skimmed through to see if Dragonfly had spoken yet, and  I didn't see that they had. Sorry about the confusion, just trying to see what everyone's thoughts are. 

[Indigo Weasel]

Hmm... No one else supporting Dingo and myself? That's unfortunate. Perhaps this game isn't quite so simple. xD
Granted, it's a Fifth game. Idk what I was expecting.

[Amber Vulture]

42 minutes ago, Melon Dingo said:

I am a Forsaken as well. I was also told that Lews Therin Telamon is somewhere in this game. 13 Forsaken + Lews = 14 players.

The initial writeup for this game suggested that only most of us will be channelers, and a game with 13 Forsaken and one Dragon is all channelers. Other than that, a village!Forsaken and SK!Lews makes sense. I don't see why there would be multiple Forsaken with no contact if we weren't at least a neutral, if not village, faction. Dragonfly seems to disagree though.

@ Someone with a good memory, Aran'gar wasn't known as such while Lews was still alive, correct?

If Lews was the SK, it should be possible to narrow down his identity as he wouldn't be able to use saidar while five Forsaken could.

Edited April 12, 2020 by Amber Vulture
Accidentally posted

[Indigo Weasel]

20 minutes ago, Amber Vulture said:

The initial writeup for this game suggested that only most of us will be channelers, and a game with 13 Forsaken and one Dragon is all channelers. Other than that, a village!Forsaken and SK!Lews makes sense. I don't see why there would be multiple Forsaken with no contact Dragonfly seems to disagree though.

You're right. I remembered it with different wording that allowed everyone to be a channeler. 

20 minutes ago, Amber Vulture said:

@ Someone with a good memory, Aran'gar wasn't known as such while Lews was still alive, correct?

Shush. Lol Balthamel would be the name you are looking for. =)

20 minutes ago, Amber Vulture said:

If Lews was the SK, it should be possible to narrow down his identity as he wouldn't be able to use saidar.

There will be people other than Lews though who can't use Saidar.

Edit: Just saw your edit. Wouldn't people other than the forsaken possibly not be able to use Saidar though? If I understand correctly, it's just the half of the power for female characters. So any male character wouldn't be able to use it.

Edited April 12, 2020 by Indigo Weasel

[Azure Mouse]

Would they be able to use Saidan(or whatever the male one is)

[Amber Vulture]

2 minutes ago, Indigo Weasel said:

You're right. I remembered it with different wording that allowed everyone to be a channeler. 

Shush. Lol Balthamel would be the name you are looking for. =)

There will be people other than Lews though who can't use Saidar.

Your and Dingo's claim is making me feel better about claiming, but I do think it would be funny if the entire Forsaken contingent revealed themselves and were promptly slaughtered by the village.

I'm also using my modern name, so it's probably fine.

Not everyone can use saidar, but five of the Forsaken can, which is five people who can't be Lews. It is true that male characters wouldn't be able to use saidar either, including the other eight Forsaken.

Lews would be able to use saidan.

[Fuchsia Ostrich]

54 minutes ago, Indigo Weasel said:

 

@Fuchsia Ostrich I'd like to hear a bit on why you are inclined that there are multiple wincons.

Mostly due to the nature of WoT. Forsaken, White Tower, Dragon, Black Tower, Seachan. So many factions... I don't know which are being used or not. It appears we have a Forsaken and the Dragon (who may be alone but may have supporters). Also, the specified amount of players cries out a game with specifically designed roles (like has been said earlier) and having multiple factions within those roles could be possible

[Melon Dingo]

20 minutes ago, Amber Vulture said:

The initial writeup for this game suggested that only most of us will be channelers, and a game with 13 Forsaken and one Dragon is all channelers. Other than that, a village!Forsaken and SK!Lews makes sense. I don't see why there would be multiple Forsaken with no contact if we weren't at least a neutral, if not village, faction. Dragonfly seems to disagree though.

@ Someone with a good memory, Aran'gar wasn't known as such while Lews was still alive, correct?

If Lews was the SK, it should be possible to narrow down his identity as he wouldn't be able to use saidar while five Forsaken could.

Good point about channelers.

I am a reincarnate Forsaken as well.

If Lews was a SK, couldn't we just all claim our Forsaken names and then just lynch people who claimed the same name? After all, two Forsaken wouldn't have the same name.

I wonder if Lews is like the elim in MR20, where he has a ton of abilities and actions.

[Amber Vulture]

1 minute ago, Melon Dingo said:

If Lews was a SK, couldn't we just all claim our Forsaken names and then just lynch people who claimed the same name? After all, two Forsaken wouldn't have the same name.

Dragonfly and Ostrich don't seem to be on board the all Forsaken theory, which is unfortunate. Unlike Dragonfly, Ostrich doesn't appear to be necessarily anti-Forsaken.

[Fuchsia Ostrich]

25 minutes ago, Amber Vulture said:

Dragonfly and Ostrich don't seem to be on board the all Forsaken theory, which is unfortunate. Unlike Dragonfly, Ostrich doesn't appear to be necessarily anti-Forsaken.

I'm waiting for a lynch and maybe a night kill before jumping on any major theories

edit: I remembered this game isn't Long. So I guess I'm just waiting for the next lynch

Edited April 12, 2020 by Fuchsia Ostrich

[Amethyst Scorpion]

I'll support Indigo Weasels and Melon Dingos story. I'm a forsaken too. I was nervous thinking I was on my own for this game.

I'm hoping that the forsaken is the village, because if not then the forsaken team might have just thrown away their chance at winning. That being said, I think that it's likely the SK hunt people are suggesting. Otherwise why wouldn't anyone have voted on indigo weasel or melon dingo since they claimed? I think that if the main village was hunting the forsaken then more action would have been taken. After all, it's been four hours and a lot of people have seen those claims.

I am going to vote on Ivory Dragonfly @Ivory Dragonfly for now for their initial comment on when the forsaken claimed.

[Indigo Weasel]

I don't feel quite comfortable voting on Ivory yet, mostly because I think an SK would be given far more information than the rest of us. If we are all Forsaken, Ivory is likely faking not being one just in case it's a pseudo faction game and we exposed ourselves too much. If we aren't all forsaken, I think Ivory likely has little information on the state of the game/her group, and is speculating about what a group of Forsaken could mean for the state of the game.

Either way, I think an SK would keep their heads down a bit more. I'm looking more at Mouse for the quantity of posts that kind of just say self explanatory things (though D1 that's not super meaningful). Also, Crocodile's post feels very villiger-y... for what it's worth... as we still don't even know if there are villagers this game. Beyond that, the rest of the people who have spoken less are more on my list to look into.

Lol, if I spend so much time looking for an SK, and then realize this isn't an SK game, I'm going to be very sad. Lol.

[Amethyst Scorpion]

1 hour ago, Indigo Weasel said:

I don't feel quite comfortable voting on Ivory yet, mostly because I think an SK would be given far more information than the rest of us. If we are all Forsaken, Ivory is likely faking not being one just in case it's a pseudo faction game and we exposed ourselves too much. If we aren't all forsaken, I think Ivory likely has little information on the state of the game/her group, and is speculating about what a group of Forsaken could mean for the state of the game.

Either way, I think an SK would keep their heads down a bit more. I'm looking more at Mouse for the quantity of posts that kind of just say self explanatory things (though D1 that's not super meaningful). Also, Crocodile's post feels very villiger-y... for what it's worth... as we still don't even know if there are villagers this game. Beyond that, the rest of the people who have spoken less are more on my list to look into.

Lol, if I spend so much time looking for an SK, and then realize this isn't an SK game, I'm going to be very sad. Lol.

Those are good points, but I really feel that if they were trying to hedge their bets or protect their identity then they would have said something more neutral. It reads like someone whose victory condition is to kill forsaken, or at least isn't aligning with the interests of a forsaken. That felt like a gut reaction on their part, the first thing that they thought of they types down. my suspicion of them is a gut feeling, but it's not the most baseless gut read I've ever seen.

Regardless it is still day 1 and everything is foggy, so probably take it with a grain of salt. I'm sticking with it for now still.

Edited April 12, 2020 by Amethyst Scorpion

[Ivory Dragonfly]

1 hour ago, Indigo Weasel said:

If we are all Forsaken, Ivory is likely faking not being one just in case it's a pseudo faction game and we exposed ourselves too much. If we aren't all forsaken, I think Ivory likely has little information on the state of the game/her group, and is speculating about what a group of Forsaken could mean for the state of the game.

It is probably one of these things...

8 minutes ago, Amethyst Scorpion said:

Those are good points, but I really feel that if they were trying to hedge their bets or protect their identity then they would have said something more neutral. It reads like someone whose victory condition is to kill forsaken, or at least isn't aligning with the interests of a forsaken. That felt like a gut reaction on their part, the first thing that they thought of they types down. my suspicion of them is a gut feeling, but it's not the most baseless gut read I've ever seen.

Or it was an intentionally crafted response...

Either way, it seems this game somewhat hinges on secrecy, and I'm not much inclined towards the idea of revealing anything unnecessary simply at the whims of other players who choose to reveal their identities. Not that what they're revealing is bad or problematic in any way, but that I am personally apt to err on the side of an overabundance of caution.

[Indigo Weasel]

Honestly I was hoping that others would PM me instead of outing themselves... But this is more exciting anyways.  

[Amber Vulture]

2 minutes ago, Indigo Weasel said:

Honestly I was hoping that others would PM me instead of outing themselves... But this is more exciting anyways.  

PMs don't open until the start of the next cycle, unfortunately.

[Indigo Weasel]

True, though I don't think we are in a huge rush.

[Amethyst Scorpion]

Secrecy is all well and good, I have mad respect for secrets in mafia games, I would rather get the village pointing in the same direction to start out with. I'd feel much more comfortable with a clear target for lynches rather than everyone serving their own purposes.

[Ivory Dragonfly]

12 minutes ago, Amethyst Scorpion said:

Secrecy is all well and good, I have mad respect for secrets in mafia games, I would rather get the village pointing in the same direction to start out with. I'd feel much more comfortable with a clear target for lynches rather than everyone serving their own purposes.

Agreed, but there seems to be some amount of mystery regarding who is actually village. If I'm elim, I'd rather the village not know. If I'm an important village, I'd rather the elims/SK not know. Considering I know neither for sure, I'll just say I'm in the game, have some actions available to me, and have an alignment of some kind.

[Emerald Falcon]

Methinks the Forsaken among us should read their wincon more closely.  This isn't a Village vs. SK game as some are suggesting. It's a faction game - each of the Forsaken has to personally cause the Dragon's death in some way if they want to win.

From there, it's guesswork, but if I had to guess based on balance reasons, there will be some proof against us all just claiming our role. My guess is that Lews is immune to the lynch, or at least won't die from it the first time - if that were the case, then we would have to fall back on our kills to achieve our goal, which are (at least in my case) not entirely reliable.

So, the point of the game, unless I'm mistaken, is this: The 13 Forsaken are hunting for Lews Therin, and we all want to find him first to kill him and gain favour with the Dark One. Lews Therin, The Dragon, is of course out to kill (or at least outlive) the rest of us first, and probably has a variety of irritating heroic abilities to aid him.

The Wheel turns, my friends. May luck smile on the worthy.

[Amber Vulture]

22 minutes ago, Ivory Dragonfly said:

Agreed, but there seems to be some amount of mystery regarding who is actually village. If I'm elim, I'd rather the village not know. If I'm an important village, I'd rather the elims/SK not know. Considering I know neither for sure, I'll just say I'm in the game, have some actions available to me, and have an alignment of some kind.

There are five claimed Forsaken so far, enough to present a very strong case for us being the main faction. All of the Forsaken presumably have relatively similar abilities; there doesn't seem to be any reason an enemy faction would target any Forsaken in particular, especially without claiming names. I wouldn't want to go the 'everyone claim a name and lynch the duplicates' route even if that was effective though, as that's not fun for anyone.

4 minutes ago, Emerald Falcon said:

Methinks the Forsaken among us should read their wincon more closely.  This isn't a Village vs. SK game as some are suggesting. It's a faction game - each of the Forsaken has to personally cause the Dragon's death in some way if they want to win.

From there, it's guesswork, but if I had to guess based on balance reasons, there will be some proof against us all just claiming our role. My guess is that Lews is immune to the lynch, or at least won't die from it the first time - if that were the case, then we would have to fall back on our kills to achieve our goal, which are (at least in my case) not entirely reliable.

Hmm. That does seem possible. Everyone choosing the same target every cycle could circumvent that limitation, with victory being determined randomly if we do identify the Dragon, since protections only have a partial success as well. If that happens, we should try the lynch first just to see if it works.

[Indigo Weasel]

2 hours ago, Emerald Falcon said:

Methinks the Forsaken among us should read their wincon more closely.  This isn't a Village vs. SK game as some are suggesting. It's a faction game - each of the Forsaken has to personally cause the Dragon's death in some way if they want to win.

If that's your wincon, I don't share a wincon with you.

Edit (I had some more time, and was bored, so decided to pick at some things said earlier):

2 hours ago, Emerald Falcon said:

From there, it's guesswork, but if I had to guess based on balance reasons, there will be some proof against us all just claiming our role. My guess is that Lews is immune to the lynch, or at least won't die from it the first time - if that were the case, then we would have to fall back on our kills to achieve our goal, which are (at least in my case) not entirely reliable.

I mean, I claimed because I was bored. Half of me thought I was going to get lynched. Lol. I wouldn't encourage anyone else to claim publicly, but to instead PM me...

I would be careful about using the survival of the lynch as a way to find Lews. There is a decent chance some others might have that ability. Assuming the lynch even kills someone.

Hmm 

 

Edited April 12, 2020 by Indigo Weasel
Got rid of extra line breaks

[Charcoal Hyena]

So all of this Forsaken=village business really screws up the chart I made . If this theory is correct (which it seems to be), then my only grievance is that we don't have Mat Cauthon's insane luck in this game.

[Melon Dingo]

8 hours ago, Emerald Falcon said:

Methinks the Forsaken among us should read their wincon more closely.  This isn't a Village vs. SK game as some are suggesting. It's a faction game - each of the Forsaken has to personally cause the Dragon's death in some way if they want to win.

From there, it's guesswork, but if I had to guess based on balance reasons, there will be some proof against us all just claiming our role. My guess is that Lews is immune to the lynch, or at least won't die from it the first time - if that were the case, then we would have to fall back on our kills to achieve our goal, which are (at least in my case) not entirely reliable.

So, the point of the game, unless I'm mistaken, is this: The 13 Forsaken are hunting for Lews Therin, and we all want to find him first to kill him and gain favour with the Dark One. Lews Therin, The Dragon, is of course out to kill (or at least outlive) the rest of us first, and probably has a variety of irritating heroic abilities to aid him.

The Wheel turns, my friends. May luck smile on the worthy.

You are incorrect. I asked in my GM PM, and Fifth said that the death of Lews Therin does not have to be caused by me. I will win if he dies, no matter when or how. If you don't believe me, you're free to ask him yourself.