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Just now, Melon Dingo said:

@Fifth Scholar / @StrikerEZ if a faction or player completes their win condition, does the game end? If not, then does the Balefire "everyone loses" thing apply to players who have already completed their win condition?

I’m starting to run out of these nice cards. :P I will note that the Balefire condition is an absolute, to partially answer one of your questions; if a game-ending win condition were to be reached on the same turn that the Balefire condition was triggered, the Pattern unravels anyway. Your accomplishments are meaningless if there’s no world left. :P 

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16 minutes ago, Azure Mouse said:

Was balefire used in the books to bring someone back to life?

Theoretically if player A killed player B, but then A gets balefired and never existed, B wouldn't have died and thus comes back to life. That sounds like a nightmare to manage so there has to be some kind of limitation on that kind of scenario, hopefully beyond the three player-three use restriction. There would probably be a time limit, as balefire only erases a victim's actions up to a certain point. Balefiring people who've used their three allotted balefires in an attempt to walk back the doomsday clock, while an intriguing possibility, is far from a guaranteed plan.

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This balefire talk is interesting but I don't think we can make any real assumption. I'm going to assume people lynched aren't entirely eliminated. The rest of the information will probably have to come as balefire is used. Also is there a stilling mechanic? Can people who can channel lose their powers? More speculation than actual questions but I wanted to throw them out there.

Edited by Fuchsia Ostrich
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23 minutes ago, Ivory Dragonfly said:

Heyo! All players probably don't have Balefire. Those who do should be careful. Best not to lose it for everyone.

There's not a lot to say at the moment. Definitely should be a lynch. By the power of the die, it should be Azure Mouse.

Why not poke someone instead of randomly choosing who to lynch? Personally, I would much rather lynch an inactive player.

I'm not sure if this is how it works in the books, and this isn't going to happen (probably!), but it'd be rather amusing if Balefiring someone just restarted the game with anon accounts scrambled and the Balefired player removed. :P

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Just now, Melon Dingo said:

 

Why not poke someone instead of randomly choosing who to lynch? Personally, I would much rather lynch an inactive player.

I'm not sure if this is how it works in the books, and this isn't going to happen (probably!), but it'd be rather amusing if Balefiring someone just restarted the game with anon accounts scrambled and the Balefired player removed. :P

That would certainly make it a very chaotic game, which would live up to it's name.

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14 minutes ago, Melon Dingo said:

 

Why not poke someone instead of randomly choosing who to lynch? Personally, I would much rather lynch an inactive player.

I'm not sure if this is how it works in the books, and this isn't going to happen (probably!), but it'd be rather amusing if Balefiring someone just restarted the game with anon accounts scrambled and the Balefired player removed. :P

That'd be crazy! Pretty intriguing though. I don't know if I could see it happening in an already crazy game

Edited by Fuchsia Ostrich
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1 hour ago, Azure Mouse said:

Melon Dingo Ivory Dragonfly, what do you have to say? 

Edit: @Ivory Dragonfly

What do I have to say about what?

48 minutes ago, Melon Dingo said:

Why not poke someone instead of randomly choosing who to lynch? Personally, I would much rather lynch an inactive player.

Because poke votes on an anonymous account won't really work, since the player, theoretically, has not opened their anon account yet. And as for the effectiveness of my current vote, it's rather implausible to believe it'll stay there through the rest of this cycle, considering it was placed in the first couple of hours of C1. 

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21 minutes ago, Azure Mouse said:

Just was wondering what your thoughts were about the game so far. Ivory Dragonfly

There aren't many to be explained at the moment with so little information to be had and PAFOs being passed out like candy on Halloween. I don't know quite enough about the world to theorize about other aspects of the game based on canon, so that's even less I can contribute until some rules/roles/etc. start getting revealed.

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Heyo! I don't really know anything about the world that this is set in, so I'm sorry if I can't be much help there! But I just wanted to poke my head in to say hello! I think that a lynch is going to be really important in this game because we need to have context for the roles and rules of the game. I think we want information, and I think that in the interest of keeping the game fun I'll vote on someone who hasn't shown up yet. That way it'll help with activity I hope, and also I would like to keep the talkative players alive. I really like it when players talk in these games. @Ivory Dragonfly It might be true that people can't see the poke since it's in a different account than normal, but it doesn't mean we shouldn't try to reach them. They might be lurking and not participating but we just don't notice it. 

Chartreuse Penguin hasn't shown up yet. @Chartreuse Penguin, how is it going? Any thoughts on the game so far?

On the subject of Balefire, Again, I don't know too much of the source material, but the limit on uses is . . . intimidating. I don't even want to get anywhere near an "everyone loses" scenario at all. If people are right in assuming that you can undo death, then maybe someone could also undo the undoing. And then undo that undoing. So much possibility for chaos!

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Hi all, 

Just checking in. I've been at work or asleep. You'll never know which. :ph34r: Anyway, it looks like we have mostly discussed balefire. It's potential to undo death seems amazing, but really hard to pull off. For instance: If I was the deciding vote on a Lynch that killed someone in cycle one and was later removed from all of time in cycle five; does that mean the player I doomed four cycles previously was tied and has a fifty-fifty shot of returning to the game. And if they did return what happens to the votes cast in the other four cycles by the player who should have died. There must be some kind of time limit like kill a player and bring back someone they voted for last cycle or within the last two cycles.

As far as win conditions, mine seems compatible with others. No doubt multiple of us can win in a cycle together. The trick is timing it and the difficulty is we don't know how many have access to balefire. The reveal that three people using balefire three times ends the game in a loss regardless of whether any of us have achieved a win condition means at least three have access to balefire, and it's more likely to be double that number.

I'm not placing a vote just yet, but I will vote.

Upon rereading my post, it occurs to me that with fourteen players, nine balefires kills over sixty percent of the players. If there are four people with access to balefire, eleven of us could be killed without ending the world. That means there must be some sort of reincarnation clause to undo balefires or there are only a few people with that power. Allow me to preface this by saying I don't believe it's a good idea to start killing indiscriminately, but I don't think three sets of three is as likely an ending to the game as we are led to believe. 

I'm off to do something or nothing, but I'll be back soon enough.

Sincerely me

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Hmm, though there doesn't seem to be any limit on number of times an individual could use Balefire. Theoretically then, 2 people could just be using Balefire every turn, and as long as the third person doesn't use Balefire 3 times, the game doesn't end.

37 minutes ago, Magenta Albatross said:

Upon rereading my post, it occurs to me that with fourteen players, nine balefires kills over sixty percent of the players. If there are four people with access to balefire, eleven of us could be killed without ending the world. That means there must be some sort of reincarnation clause to undo balefires or there are only a few people with that power.

If Balefires are the only way to kill people (possibly besides a lynch) then I don't think a reincarnation rule would be necessary. People will probably be at least moderately conservative with it, so if not too many people have it, that would probably be between 0 and 2 kills/cycle. I personally would be surprised if it averaged out much higher than 1. This would also make the game last around 2 weeks, which is a tad short, but still MR length.

I'm also going to hazard a guess that there is no elim faction this game.

Edit: I don't even think we know that Balefires kill people at the moment. I'm not sure what else they would do instead, but it's possible.

Edited by Indigo Weasel
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4 hours ago, Indigo Weasel said:

I'm also going to hazard a guess that there is no elim faction this game.

But what about Darkfriends? If anything screams Elim, its them.

Also, with balefire, I'm not going to try to wrap my head around all of the ways it could screw things up. Let's treat it like a nuke: threat, but don't bet.

Emerald Falcon, to spread around these votes. @Emerald Falcon

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OK, to address some (mild) misconceptions about balefire from the source material:

-Balefire does not make it as if someone never existed.  It does, however, move their thread from the pattern either at the point they're killed, or further back depending upon the power behind the balefire.  The situation where balefire would 'bring' people back to life was when it would be powerful enough to remove the target far enough back that that action never happened.  An example of this is when Rand invades Caemlyn - a large number of the Maidens he brought with him were killed by a trap set by Rahvin...who Rand balefired with a monster amount of power, removing him from the pattern before the trap would have been set (or set off?...don't 100% remember that part)

(Sorry if this comes off a bit high and mighty...  WoT was incredible...I loved that series...it's the main reason I started reading Sanderson)

Anyway, with Lord of Chaos being the title, I'm wondering if this game is centered around events in that book.

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Coral Swan, Haven't seen you yet! how's it going? Any thoughts on the balefire speculation?

This is definitely hard to wrap heads around, its like trying to do a puzzle with only a few pieces that you have to keep hidden from everyone else. We all likely have a bit different information through speculation or GM-PM's. Personally I think that we will have better luck with speculation and analysis after one cycle.

Edited by Cream Tuatara
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Hey all! Normally at this stage, I'd be all for grabbing someone for the lynch, but I wonder if in this game with so little information there's no point. Still, I might drop my vote on the leading candidate towards the end of the cycle - prevent any possible vote manipulations, and all that jazz.

In the meantime, Amber Vulture - something about this post seems off - maybe it's just me.

13 hours ago, Amber Vulture said:

If balefire can be used to make a player no longer exist, we probably wouldn't learn that player's role. If balefire can be used to bring people back to life, we probably wouldn't learn their role upon their initial death to avoid potential confirmed good/evil players.

Quote

I also wish to hypothesize about why the almighty Game Masters wished for 14 and only 14 players. Are there unique roles? Are there individual win-cons? Is 14 an important number in Wheel of Time and I'm just ignorant as I haven't read it? 

There are 14 books in the wheel of time series, which may have been an inspiration. Fifth's last wheel of time game had unique roles in it, and the fact that this is a blackout game makes it even easier to put in unique roles without giving players an easy way to prove those roles. 

 

Edited by Emerald Falcon
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4 hours ago, Charcoal Hyena said:

But what about Darkfriends? If anything screams Elim, its them.

Do you have a reason to think they are in this game? I dont think there are any darkfriends in this game at all.

58 minutes ago, Emerald Falcon said:

In the meantime, Amber Vulture - something about this post seems off - maybe it's just me.

Vulture definitely sounds to me like they have some additional info... but so do we all, so idk.

What they say about the number of players though is true. I think Fifth has a history of giving people unique roles in WoT games. I also seem to recall that game had some ways to prove your role. Based on my own ability set, I dont believe proving roles will be either possible or useful in any way this game.

Rereading everyone's posts, nothing seems particularly in-genuine (if that's a word) or suspicious to me, so I'm going to hop to the Swan lynch, as I believe them to be the only player with yet to post, though they also have yet to log in at all, so hopefully that changes soon.

charcoal hyena. Coral Swan

edit: @Coral Swan

Edited by Indigo Weasel
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1 hour ago, Indigo Weasel said:

Do you have a reason to think they are in this game? I dont think there are any darkfriends in this game at all.

If not darkfriends, then Forsaken. There are certainly enough Forsaken to make an entire Elim team. However, I believe Fifth hinted that not everyone is a channeler. Of course, there's Perrin and Mat, but I would think there would be maybe a non-channeler elim for balance, like Padan Fain.

Emerald Falcon. I don't believe in this Swan bandwagon enough to hop on. While I'm down to figure out what this lynch does, Swan hasn't even posted yet.

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57 minutes ago, Amethyst Scorpion said:

Chartreuse Penguin @Chartreuse Penguin Thanks for the context. It's like a time travelling murder. The more power the further back in time you murdered them.

@Indigo Weasel If you don't think there is an elim team in this game then what kind of game do you think it is?

I think this is a game of neutrals. I believe that because if this game had an elim faction, I'm about 75% sure I'd be in it.

I'm Aran'gar, a Forsaken. When I got my PM, I thought I was evil, but I was convinced by the Dark Lord himself that I have the ability to chose my own "alignment" this game. My wincon makes sense for what I know of my character, and is probably not universally compatible, but I think should be compatible with at least several others. (As I have no clue on what most wincons look like yet)

Aran'gar seems to be a fairly underwhelming Forsaken in terms of either power or notoriety, so I suspect there are other forsaken.

Hopefully none of this message will result in some attempting to kill me... but I do know enough that if someone attempts that they probably wont like what happens next ;)

Oh, and I wouldnt complain if people PMed me this cycle. :ph34r: just throwing that out there.

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7 hours ago, Cream Tuatara said:

Coral Swan, Haven't seen you yet! how's it going? Any thoughts on the balefire speculation?

This is definitely hard to wrap heads around, its like trying to do a puzzle with only a few pieces that you have to keep hidden from everyone else. We all likely have a bit different information through speculation or GM-PM's. Personally I think that we will have better luck with speculation and analysis after one cycle.

I have arrived!

As for balefire, I think that given the fact that exists at all it is very likely to have a use similar to that of the books- that is, of undoing past actions of a player. (In addition to killing them, of course). Important to note is that, at least in the books, balefire cannot undo other balefire. (Probably a good thing for the GMs.) It seems possible that it could change the outcome of a lynch, but I'm not sure of that. If there are other attacks besides balefire, then those almost certainly would be undo-able, however, which makes it more likely that a lynch would be able to.

More information, I think, should be gathered from the lynch.

Dingo(0):Mouse

Hyena(0):Weasel

Swan(3):Dingo,Tuatara,Weasel

Mouse(2):Dragonfly,Swan.

Dragonfly(0):Mouse

Penguin(0):Scorpion

Falcon(0):Hyena

Vulture(1):Falcon

I think my vote will go on Mouse for now. Their vote on Dragonfly feels odd to me, given that Dragonfly had already posted and several others hadn't.

Edited by Coral Swan
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3 hours ago, Indigo Weasel said:

I think this is a game of neutrals. I believe that because if this game had an elim faction, I'm about 75% sure I'd be in it.

I'm Aran'gar, a Forsaken. When I got my PM, I thought I was evil, but I was convinced by the Dark Lord himself that I have the ability to chose my own "alignment" this game. My wincon makes sense for what I know of my character, and is probably not universally compatible, but I think should be compatible with at least several others. (As I have no clue on what most wincons look like yet)

Aran'gar seems to be a fairly underwhelming Forsaken in terms of either power or notoriety, so I suspect there are other forsaken.

Hopefully none of this message will result in some attempting to kill me... but I do know enough that if someone attempts that they probably wont like what happens next ;)

Oh, and I wouldnt complain if people PMed me this cycle. :ph34r: just throwing that out there.

I am a Forsaken as well. I was also told that Lews Therin Telamon is somewhere in this game. 13 Forsaken + Lews = 14 players.

Thanks for posting, Coral Swan.

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7 minutes ago, Melon Dingo said:

I am a Forsaken as well. I was also told that Lews Therin Telamon is somewhere in this game. 13 Forsaken + Lews = 14 players.

Thanks for posting, Coral Swan.

Ok then. If this is true, it shouldn't hurt for me to say this. But this is starting to sound like a village/elimSK game to me. I'm not 100% sure.

@Fuchsia Ostrich I'd like to hear a bit on why you are inclined that there are multiple wincons. :)

So, we have some progress. I'm feeling really good about Melon, and possibly Fuchsia now... But I am making some assumptions about this being a village/SK game.

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