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NiceBleach

Is Hoid trying to reunite Adonalsium?

Question

I'm going to hazard a guess that the answer I'll receive to this will be "we just don't know" or else a mod sending a frame-perfect WoB link to someone getting RAFO'd into the next century, but I figured I'd ask it anyhow. I'm kinda writing this to see if my theory about this has any merit, or if it's already been talked about elsewhere on the forums or Reddit.

Also, I don't know how spoilers are treated in this chat, so I'm going to just spoiler everything from here on out. Beware spoilers for smatterings of the Stormlight Archive, Mistborn: Secret History, and the first Mistborn trilogy, technically.

Spoiler

 

In his conversation with Dalinar in Chapter 54 of The Way of Kings, Wit brings up Adonalsium in an almost wistful manner. When Kelsier talks with Leras after Wit steals some lerasium in Mistborn: Secret History, Leras mentions that Wit "rejected the rest of us." Presumably, "us" is the people who killed and Shattered Adonalsium, and Wit rejected an invitation to the kill god party. That stuff makes me think that Wit liked Adonalsium, or that he maybe prefers Adonalsium to the current system of Shards everywhere.

Ruin and Preservation fusing to become Harmony and Dalinar proclaiming himself "Unity" in Oathbringer makes me wonder if we're going to see some more Shard unification in the future. Dalinar's place in this theory might be a bit iffy. Dalinar summons Honor's Perpendicularity and also maybe somehow summons Honor him/itself. This makes me think that there is a way for Splintered Shards to be re-formed, but this might be a special case. Dalinar's soul is bound to a significant chunk of Honor's power, if I understand the nature of the Stormfather. (A quick consultation of the wiki informs me that I do not, in fact, understand the nature of the Stormfather, or of spren at all. Oh boy, more questions). Things aren't like that elsewhere: Dominion and Devotion aren't concentrated in any way, like the Stormfather is, except for the fact that that Investiture is concentrated in the Cognitive Realm, but there doesn't necessarily need to be one way to reunite a shard. 

 

That got quite ramble-y. Terribly sorry.

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This theory is pretty common, but it has some major problems with it.

  1. Hoid was at the Shattering, and it doesn't sound like he objected to it.

  2. He kind of thought it was necessary.

  3. He has a remnant of the weapon used to kill Adonalsium as part of him, keeping him immortal.

  4. He turned down a Shard. It'd be much easier to get pieces with the amount of power that a Shard has, than to go around sneaking trying to get little pieces.

  5. The amount of investiture he's getting from the different powers he's managed to get is minuscule compared to even one Shard, let along all 16.

Him wanting to rebuild Adonalsium or even a mini-version just doesn't make any sense to me.

It would be really weird for someone who wanted the Shattering to happen, and has part of what killed Adonalsium helping to keep him immortal, to want to bring back the thing that he wanted to kill, while he holds part of the thing that killed it. And reuniting all the Shards would be much easier if he had a Shard of his own, but he doesn't.

 

Quote

 

Questioner

Did Hoid think of the Shattering as necessary?

Brandon Sanderson

pause Kind of.

https://wob.coppermind.net/events/256/#e8718

 

 

 

Quote

 

Valhalla

So, you talked about a weapon made by the enemies of Adonalsium, and you said it doesn't exist in it's original form. Do any remnants of it still exist in the Physical Realm?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes.

Valhalla

Have we seen any of those remnants on-screen?

Brandon Sanderson

pause RAFO.

In current continuity (and people would know this), Hoid's immortality comes from this. People who have read Dragonsteel know that.

https://wob.coppermind.net/events/355/#e10439

 

 

 

Quote

 

Questioner

Hoid was at the Shattering of Adonalsium?

Brandon Sanderson

He was there, yes.

Questioner

Was he Adonalsium?

Brandon Sanderson

He was not. Good question.

https://wob.coppermind.net/events/358/#e10773

 

 

 

Quote

 

Paladin Brewer

We know that Hoid was offered a Shard and turned it down. Was he offered a specific Shard?

Brandon Sanderson

He was. There is one of the Shards that he would've-- yeah.

Paladin Brewer

Would he have been the 17th person or did someone take his place?

Brandon Sanderson

No. Someone took his place.

https://wob.coppermind.net/events/374/#e12132

 

 

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Posted (edited)

25 minutes ago, NiceBleach said:

"we just don't know" or else a mod sending a frame-perfect WoB link to someone getting RAFO'd into the next century

You are correct. 

25 minutes ago, NiceBleach said:

Also, I don't know how spoilers are treated in this chat, so I'm going to just spoiler everything from here on out. Beware spoilers for smatterings of the Stormlight Archive, Mistborn: Secret History, and the first Mistborn trilogy, technically.

This part of the site everyone is supposed to have read the entire cosmere.

Edited by Karger
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Oh, well. It's good to have confirmation. Thanks for the info about spoilers here.

 

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34 minutes ago, RShara said:

This theory is pretty common, but it has some major problems with it.

  1. Hoid was at the Shattering, and it doesn't sound like he objected to it.

  2. He kind of thought it was necessary.

  3. He has a remnant of the weapon used to kill Adonalsium as part of him, keeping him immortal.

  4. He turned down a Shard. It'd be much easier to get pieces with the amount of power that a Shard has, than to go around sneaking trying to get little pieces.

  5. The amount of investiture he's getting from the different powers he's managed to get is minuscule compared to even one Shard, let along all 16.

Him wanting to rebuild Adonalsium or even a mini-version just doesn't make any sense to me.

It would be really weird for someone who wanted the Shattering to happen, and has part of what killed Adonalsium helping to keep him immortal, to want to bring back the thing that he wanted to kill, while he holds part of the thing that killed it. And reuniting all the Shards would be much easier if he had a Shard of his own, but he doesn't.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

It's really that third point that drives the nail in the coffin. I feel like I can explain away the others. To the first and second, he could have been fine with the killing of whoever Adonalsium was and could have changed his mind in the millennia since then. To the fourth and fifth, the theory doesn't dictate that he's trying to rejoin the powers with himself as the new Adonalsium. I can't say anything about that third point, though. And I feel like I read somewhere that he (believes that he) can accomplish whatever he's trying to do easier without a Shard. 

Guess it's back to the drawing board for figuring out Hoid's motives. Or the waiting room.

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On 2.4.2020 at 0:49 AM, RShara said:
  • Hoid was at the Shattering, and it doesn't sound like he objected to it.

  • He kind of thought it was necessary.

  • He has a remnant of the weapon used to kill Adonalsium as part of him, keeping him immortal.

  • He turned down a Shard. It'd be much easier to get pieces with the amount of power that a Shard has, than to go around sneaking trying to get little pieces.

  • The amount of investiture he's getting from the different powers he's managed to get is minuscule compared to even one Shard, let along all 16.

makes sense when he wants to reform a "better" Adonalsium.

shattering is necessary to get Odium out of Adonalsium. for example.

posessing remnant of the weapon that offed Adonalsium matters how exactly regarding this theory? not at all imo.

Turning down a Shard so it can not affect him through its intent. this is necessary or he will eventually end up bound by the Shard and can't act freely anymore.

Doesn't matter. combining all of the Shards magic system in him may only serve as a conduit of some sort. I doubt he has to accumulate much investiture and much less ascend to trigger a reforming of Adonalsium.

 

what you listed are not problems at all. there are easy explanations for each. its a valid theory.

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The aspect of seeing the future makes a major impact on the life of a Shard. Some shards have better future vision than others. Then wouldn't that make the "father/mother" of all Shards the ultimate future vision with the powers of all Shards within? 

With that logic Adonalsium must have let the shattering happen. Ado knows it doesn't matter if it gets shattered, Ado knew Hoid wouldn't take part in the shattering, even if You'd himself didn't know at that time that he would refuse. Hoid wouldn't have the weapon if he wasn't planning on taking part in the shattering. So hoid had a change of heart by himself which Ado knew so He let the shattering happen.  

 

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