PrinceGenocide

Chromium Savants are extremely dangerous !!!

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Posted (edited)

So I was wondering , if I were a leecher and i became a savant by constantly burning chromium. Would I eventually be able to kill ppl by touch alone.

Now we know that Nightblood unsheathed and in the absence of an alternate source of investiture will feed on the soul of the wielder.

Hence we can infer that souls are investivure. 

So is it possible that a leecher savant could actually wipe out ur soul. Just one caress and u lose ur soul. 

damnation that's cool. Of course in case of ppl like Radiants or wax , u would first have to burn through thier stormlight or metals/metalminds before getting to thier souls. 

But if u are a savant then surely u could do that quickly too right. Like maybe in two seconds. Then the soul goes in one sec. So u would have to maintain contact for 3 secs. 

I don't think there will too many disadvantages from being a chromium savant. Similar to how copper and bronze savants have little to fear.

Tin is dangerous cause it actually affects ur body. But chromium doesn't. It might be deadly to others but u could avoid that by simply wearing gloves.

I think u could stop burning chromium and suffer no ill-effects,  except perhaps irritability like drug quitters suffer from. 

I guess u would be like Rogue from X-Men.

Maybe u could even stop burning chromium for a hour or so without the itch coming in. During that hour u could be intimate with someone or you could just touch other ppl. Be normal. 

I think that's not too bad a price to be death incarnate. 

We have already seemingly seen a leecher indirectly through the article on Nicki Savage. I think the Set has a few too.

Hmmm, Nicki Savage as Lady Death.

So does my theory hold any water ??

 

Edited by PrinceGenocide
A little polishing
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I think with a Leecher taken to the logical extreme, your theory does hold water.  What the numbers would turn out to be, and how difficult would be to avoid chromium toxicity on your way to becoming a Savant, that would be hard to say for now (we're getting a Chromium character eventually, so we'll get more info then).  But Leechers operate on the same general mechanism as Nightblood, and savantism is weird, so I dont know of any specific reason that it couldnt work.  Might not work as fast as Nightblood does (even with duralumin), or so completely destroy in all three realms, but enough to kill might be in reach.

One side note: Savantism is supposed to always have a downside, even if they havent always been presented that way.  He's said that the Downsides were a very important part of is original intent with Savants, and that he feels like he's deviated from that too much from that original intent and may well backpedal on it some.  

 

 

Quote

 

Brandon Sanderson

Warning, Evgeni. I'm really considering doing a backpedal on savants. The more i think about them, the less I'm not liking how my current course has them being treated in upcoming books. I think it deviates too far from my original vision.

Argent

Hey, I wouldn't normally contact you directly like this, but given that you thought it important enough to reach out and let me know you might change how savants work, I figured you probably wouldn't be too upset by this message. I replied to your Facebook comment, asking if you could clarify a little bit which aspects of savantism you are thinking of keeping and/or cutting. I don't need an essay on the topic (though you know I'd love one!), just some details on what we can consider canon for theories, and what we should be careful around.

Brandon Sanderson

Evgeni,

So here's the problem. The more I dig into savants in the later outlines, the more I feel that I'm in a dangerous area--in that I'm disobeying their original intention. (Which is that using the power so much that it permeates your soul can be dangerous, a kind of uncontrolled version of a spren bond.)

And so, I don't want to let myself just start making people savants right and left. It needs to be a specific thing. Wax is the troubling one, as I have him burning so much steel that he's well on his way, but isn't showing any side effects. If I'm going to give him savant-like abilities, he needs savant-like consequences.

That's the danger, just falling back on savanthood to do some of the things I want, so often that it undermines the actual point and purpose of them in the cosmere lore.

So if I backpedal, it will be to contain this and point myself the right way, sharply curtailing my desire to make people savants without their savanthood being an intrinsic part of their story and conflict in life. (Like it was for Spook, and is for Soulcasting savants on Roshar.)

Feel free to share this.

Argent

Okay, so - if you do decide to go this route, I see the story implications (larger focus on consequences, less easy to get to the point where a character can be considered a savant). What I am not sure about is the potential for a mechanical change. Would a backpedal on your side cause a conflict with information you've shared with us, in or out of your books? Are you saying that it's possible that Wax won't be considered a savant (if you can't squeeze a good ramifications plot for him that doesn't contradict the apparent lack of consequences so far, for example)?

Brandon Sanderson

I haven't decided on anything yet. It's mostly consequences for the future--just a kind of, "be aware I'm not 100% pleased with how Wax turned out, re: savanthood and Allomantic resonance."

The idea of resonance is that two powers, combined, meld kind of into one single power. This is a manifestation of the way Shards combine. Wax was intended as a savant of the two melded powers. But without consequences in his plot, I'm not confident that I'll continue in the same vein for future books.

Footnote: The first message comes from Brandon reaching out to Argent (Evgeni) on Facebook with a follow-up regarding this entry. This rest is from a Reddit PM exchange between Argent and Brandon.
Miscellaneous 2016 (Dec. 15, 2016)

 

 
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Posted (edited)

Hmm then perhaps he/she would be like midas or completely like Rogue , unable to have any physical connection at all. 

Also I don't think the savant would be able to destroy things on all 3 realms. Nah only the investiture parts 

As for downsides , I think some metals are worse than others in that respect.

Like , we see clubs and breeze suffering from some cognitive issues but that's pretty much it. 

I'm pretty sure we could say many mistborn and perhaps pre spike marsh were bronze savants too.  They didn't suffer much from it either. 

Edited by PrinceGenocide
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Whoa, I did not see that one coming. Yeah, I think that should be possible, though maybe not on the same scale, with Nightblood being one of the most Invested things that isn't a Shard. 

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Well if you wanna get REALLY technical, Matter Investiture and Energy are all interchangeable, so a REALLY rusting strong Leecher could approach Nightblood-level destruction on all 3 realms. You'd probably have to give them a Medallion for Nicrosil Compounding to let them recursively multiply their A-Chromium power, maybe throw in an A-Duralumin medallion, idk, in order to get to THAT level of power. Savantism would likely help in that endeavor, but I worry that savantism of that level would just have them passively erode whatever they touch (other than Aluminum, probably) which means clothing alone would be an ordeal. An aluminum-lined wetsuit underneath (covering most of their skin) could work, though. Like Nightblood's aluminum sheath.

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This sound Theoretically possible but extremely unlikely. What I always thought a Chromium savant could do is leech from a distance. We see other powers that were believed to only work on physical contact can be used at a distance cough.... Jasnah .... cough. We also see that when Ettmetal copies A-Chromium it creates a EoF leeching field so I don't see why a skilled Chromium savant can't do this either.   

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I think that theoretically this (the OP) is possible; however, anywhere within a normal range of a savant or even someone using feruchemical Nicrosil, I kind of doubt it. It's a bit like the WoB on whether you could make a Death Star using Lightweaving or Soulcast lerasium - it's on the order of magnitude of turning lead to gold in a nuclear reactor. You have to remember that you can't push on metal inside a person's body but can Surgebind on them because Surgebinding is a bit more power intensive. Nightblood being your standard for vaporizing things is a bit skewed seeing as he is the single most invested object in the cosmere, and outranks the Unmade in pure investiture levels. If a Leecher is pulling that amount of Investiture, they are probably already past mistpoint. (Ettmetal grenades are literally consuming an unstable godmetal, so I'd say there is more going on there than meets the eye.) 

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Posted (edited)

The WoB about backtracking on the mechanics of Allomantic savantism aside, it's also not obvious what it would mean for Leeching anyway. We can only speculate.

Savantism a la Spook constantly flaring tin is the original model, and what do we see? He's hyper-enhanced when burning tin, basically able to flare with less tin (already a long burning metal)... But he doesn't retain the effect of burning tin if he shuts it down, in fact it is the opposite - his normal senses are numbed. It's like he would need to burn tin at an ordinary low burn just to be normal, and flaring tin gets him above a tin flare would have before becoming a savant.

A savant Seeker burning bronze mostly gains range on their Seeking, and not so much a power gain that they can always pierce copperclouds, though that is possible based on the relative strength of the Allomancer (I would interpret that as "Final Empire savant Seeker can pierce Era 2 copperclouds due to their diluted power, plus the slight boost to effectiveness and ability to interpret very slight signals from being a savant" - and maybe the same for FE savant Seeker vs. an Inquisitor who gained copper though an inefficient hemalurgic spike).

So it seems more probable to me that a Leecher savant would mostly gain range, and a measurable but not dramatic step-up in how much they can Leech out (down to the Spark of Life). Where they do gain a natural boost, it's like their normal level Leeching is equivalent to a flared Leeching before becoming savant, and their flared Leeching would reach a bit further.

If anything, I'd suspect the "boosted savant" expression of a Leecher is like how the "allomantic grenade" that Irich throws at Wax was able to drain him from a distance: he didn't have to pick it up for it to Leech him, it was just tossed "just outside the doorway in which he crouched" on the train when he realized his steel reserves were gone. The really interesting expression of a savant Leecher from a storytelling POV would be draining from across a room or through a wall or door.

Edited by robardin
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We're told in the HOA epigraphs that Tin and Pewter savantism are really dangerous, Bronze much less so. I wonder if that's because Tin and Pewter deal with your body's normal abilities while Bronze doesn't.

But by that WOB it should have some side effect - just quite a bit less bad, I guess.

...Hmm, if Bronze works on the same basic mechanism as Awakeners' Lifesense from Warbreaker and other investiture-sense mechanisms in the Cosmere (there's something similar in Sixth of the Dusk), I wonder if a really severe case of Bronze Savantism would have some "Drab-like" effects when not burning Bronze, being less "in-tune" with Investiture than a normal person with no powers?

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2 hours ago, cometaryorbit said:

We're told in the HOA epigraphs that Tin and Pewter savantism are really dangerous, Bronze much less so. I wonder if that's because Tin and Pewter deal with your body's normal abilities while Bronze doesn't.

But by that WOB it should have some side effect - just quite a bit less bad, I guess.

...Hmm, if Bronze works on the same basic mechanism as Awakeners' Lifesense from Warbreaker and other investiture-sense mechanisms in the Cosmere (there's something similar in Sixth of the Dusk), I wonder if a really severe case of Bronze Savantism would have some "Drab-like" effects when not burning Bronze, being less "in-tune" with Investiture than a normal person with no powers?

Well if ceasing a Tin burn with savantism makes your senses feel dull and weak, maybe ceasing a bronze burn with savantism makes you feel like you're in a mild coppercloud, or something. Possibly alongside what you're describing.

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Doesn't chromium get rid of kinetic investiture? If that's the case then it wouldn't destroy your soul no matter how powerful it got.

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On 4/6/2020 at 11:48 AM, Nameless said:

Doesn't chromium get rid of kinetic investiture? If that's the case then it wouldn't destroy your soul no matter how powerful it got.

Chromium works on all forms of Investiture. It is not limited to kinetic Investiture only. It is just better at kinetic Investiture. 

 

If [Leeching] would work with Breath, would it work with Lifeless? Could you Leech a Lifeless?

Brandon Sanderson

This is theoretically possible.

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12 hours ago, Dancer said:

Chromium works on all forms of Investiture. It is not limited to kinetic Investiture only. It is just better at kinetic Investiture. 

 

 

Isn’t Breath “kinetic”? It’s a physical thing like the Mists or Stormlight.

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Posted (edited)

1 hour ago, SwordNimiForPresident said:

Isn’t Breath “kinetic”? It’s a physical thing like the Mists or Stormlight.

Only when they're being transferred. A Breath that's animating a Lifeless is 'stuck' to them and most certainly isn't kinetic any longer.

Edited by Weltall
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So my take on this is yes in theory.  In fact era four might have some kind of chromium based death ray.  That being said I do not think even a savant is going to completely kill you.  They might however do something else.  The way I see things an average human soul in the cosmere has a balance between different investitures in a mostly "regular shape."   People with "cracks" or an "imbalance" have a less regular shape that allows for mental illness, magic, and sapience.  I think a savant might be able to "polish" these out.  Basically you would be left with people who did not have any of the three.  So maybe a chromium savant just "lobotomies" people?

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