13 posts in this topic

So I’ve been bouncing this idea around for a while, and finally decided to type it up. 

So we know that Pattern bonded Shallan when she was younger, to the point that she could summon her shardblade (to kill her mum). After this she regresses somehow, possibly due to her self-forgetting stuff. 

Another example we know much less about is Tien, Kaladin’s younger brother. We don’t know a lot about what he did in Amaram’s army, but it is implied that he had reached a point in his Ideals that caught the attention of the Skybreakers enough that Nale felt he needed to be eliminated. I personally think he was at the first Ideal, but have little proof to back that up. 

So: what are the common threads in these two young lives?

My theory: not their own lies, but the lies of those around them. We know that (Pattern at least) Cryptics are very curious about humans. 

Lyrin was hiding the gem theft, and we know that this caused a lot of strife in Hearthstone. Shallan’s mother was involved somehow with the Skybreakers before her death, and Lin was dealing with political issues (or was that just after Shallan’s mum died?) as well as dealing with debts. Also maybe the Ghostbloods. We know that Pattern is interested in the lies of people besides Shallan.

Shallan and Tien are both “the light” of their respective households. The Lightweavers have been described as the “spiritual sustainers” of the Radiants. 

They are both artistic, and very curious about the world around them. If Cryptics are the spren of natural forces and the laws of nature, the interests of the spren and the knight would align in this.

A few other parallels I don’t think are relevant:

Shallan and Tien each have depressed older brothers.

They are both interested in the creatures around them.

They like gentle rains.

Please point out anything that I’ve missed!

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, Lightwing8888 said:

Lyrin was hiding the gem theft, and we know that this caused a lot of strife in Hearthstone. Shallan’s mother was involved somehow with the Skybreakers before her death, and Lin was dealing with political issues (or was that just after Shallan’s mum died?) as well as dealing with debts. Also maybe the Ghostbloods. We know that Pattern is interested in the lies of people besides Shallan.

I think Tien, Elhokar, and Shallan's personal lies are much more obvious and formidable.  Also Tien did not start to bond until after leaving behind his home and that lie and joining the army.

Quote

Draconic Lingerer

So you had had a Word of Brandon that had said that Tien was on his way to becoming a Lightweaver. My question is, did he ever actually become a Lightweaver; did he speak an Oath, and if so, did he bond with a Cryptic?

Brandon Sanderson

That's an excellent question. If you look closely through the first book, you will see Tien having some slight Lightweaving effects. In the back of my head, he was where Kaladin was during most of the first book, where it wasn't really official but there was a spren hanging around. He was very close to-- by the time he left, already done that. I would say he never actually managed to get that bond working... Otherwise, perhaps, things would have played out differently than they did.

FanX Spring 2019 (April 19, 2019)

 

2 hours ago, Lightwing8888 said:

Shallan and Tien are both “the light” of their respective households. The Lightweavers have been described as the “spiritual sustainers” of the Radiants. 

That is slightly supernatural sort of. 

Quote

Questioner

At the end of Oathbringer, or near the end, Kaladin is talking to Syl about not getting Shallan or whatever, and he says that she really just reminded him of someone, who is it that she reminded him of?

Brandon Sanderson

She reminded him of Tien, his brother, because his brother was a burgeoning Lightweaver, and Lightweavers, you'll notice, when they're around someone, that person starts to act a little bit more like a little bit of their best self. There's a bit of, also, counteraction to feelings of darkness and despair, it's just a natural Lightweaver sort of thing. And so, part of what Kaladin was drawing from Shallan was that feeling. I think it could've totally become love. And he's now cutting that off, he's saying it couldn't at all have become-- it could have. But that was part of what was drawing him in.

FanX Spring 2019 (April 19, 2019)

 

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12 hours ago, Karger said:

I think Tien, Elhokar, and Shallan's personal lies are much more obvious and formidable.  Also Tien did not start to bond until after leaving behind his home and that lie and joining the army.

That WoB says that Tien did start his bond before he left.

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Posted (edited)

1 minute ago, Nameless said:

That WoB says that Tien did start his bond before he left.

But it did not start to solidify until afterward. 

Edited by Karger
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Just now, Karger said:

But it did not start to solidify until afterward. 

It never fully solidified. Tien never swore his first oath, he just had a spren following him around.

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Posted (edited)

2 minutes ago, Nameless said:

It never fully solidified. Tien never swore his first oath, he just had a spren following him around.

A better point is that Pattern does not care about Jasnah's lies.  The fact that she has a fake soulcaster is of only academic interest to him.  The Truth he wants is Shallan's.  Additionally basically everyone goes through life with a strong amount of background lies.

The average number of lies told per day by each person was 1.65.Nov 30, 2011
Edited by Karger
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12 minutes ago, Karger said:

A better point is that Pattern does not care about Jasnah's lies.  The fact that she has a fake soulcaster is of only academic interest to him.  The Truth he wants is Shallan's.  Additionally basically everyone goes through life with a strong amount of background lies.

The average number of lies told per day by each person was 1.65.Nov 30, 2011

I wasn't arguing your other points, just clarifying that Tien's bond began before he was conscripted.

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37 minutes ago, Nameless said:

I wasn't arguing your other points, just clarifying that Tien's bond began before he was conscripted.

The when of bonding is a bit weird.  Kaladin was sort of bonded to Syl as a kid for example.

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5 hours ago, Karger said:

The when of bonding is a bit weird.  Kaladin was sort of bonded to Syl as a kid for example.

Where do we learn this? I thought she was first attracted to him by what he did for Amaram. 

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5 minutes ago, Lightwing8888 said:

Where do we learn this? I thought she was first attracted to him by what he did for Amaram. 

Syl was searching for Kaladin, they were probably connected through the spiritual realm.

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14 hours ago, Nameless said:

Syl was searching for Kaladin, they were probably connected through the spiritual realm.

Ah yes, that spiritual Mumbo Jumbo.

*nods knowingly*

So @Nameless, you’re saying that the Nahel spren know who they are going to bond (in a spiritual-realm way) before they transfer from the cognitive realm?

But what about the Stormfather? He seemed pretty surprised when he bonded Dalinar. 

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Just now, Lightwing8888 said:

Ah yes, that spiritual Mumbo Jumbo.

*nods knowingly*

So @Nameless, you’re saying that the Nahel spren know who they are going to bond (in a spiritual-realm way) before they transfer from the cognitive realm?

But what about the Stormfather? He seemed pretty surprised when he bonded Dalinar. 

Well, Syl's explanation was that she was searching for Kaladin, and that she knew he was out there. The Stormfather had a bunch of different candidates, and he was in denial about the bond to begin with.

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Just now, Nameless said:

Well, Syl's explanation was that she was searching for Kaladin, and that she knew he was out there. The Stormfather had a bunch of different candidates, and he was in denial about the bond to begin with.

Yeah that makes sense. Also, I guess the Big Three spren aren’t really the norm on this. 

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