Long Game 64: Choose Your Own Sanderson Adventure!

[The_God_King]

@A Joe in the Bush@EXPERIENCEWell, I would gladly have someone vote on me. For the most part, the code is basically a PM between me and Coda. If you can crack it oh well. I haven't used it to post anything of note.

 

Writing on the walls was a lowly thing to do but how else could I tell people my secret plans? Putting it in Sanskrit was just a bit of fun. If you didn't know Sanskrit could you even say you knew writing at all? Oh well. I seem to be leaving quite the trail of dust behind me. Who knew hiking shoes left behind so much dirt! Luckily the guards hadn't caught me yet. They might not be so happy with me but was anyone ever happy with me? Also, the lizard people can't read Sanskrit, everyone knew that.

[Elkanah]

44 minutes ago, A Joe in the Bush said:

Do you folks think that revealing who we all started PM's with would be more beneficial for the Eliminators or for the Village? I've put some thought into it, and can't quite decide. It wouldn't allow us to track the Smedry kills, but it could help us out a bit if we managed to find a Knight Silimatic Engineer, as they would want a PM with another knight so they could use Protector's Glass on them. But I think it would also go pretty far in revealing who a Jail-breaker is, and I'm not sure non village aligments will have one of them. What do you guys think would be a benefit or hindrance to such a plan?

This is really interesting. I tend to think more information is better than less. I realize I am in the minority on that point as we can use that abstractly to turn a game of mafia into a math problem. I don't think sharing with whom we have PMs would hurt us and I'm not sure what the eliminators could do with that information so I'm in favor of it. I'll check with the people I am in contact with to see how they feel as that information is half theirs. I fear that villages often suffer because they are unwilling to share information the eliminators already probably have. 

tl;dr: I'm in favor, but I'll see.

56 minutes ago, Kynedath said:

Gotta say folks, not a huge fan of the codes personally. All it really does is add to the noise we have to sift through to get to important information.

I'm assuming that it's pretty quiet on here because everyone is scheming in their PMs and figuring out how best to use their abilities. 

That's fair. I like codes because they are like less secure PMs. We have restrictions on PMs which are safe this game. If you want to have extra PMs you take on additional risk in that it has to be public. Of course, that said, I have only seen actually sensitive information passed via code one time and it was a seer claiming his role accidentally to a werewolf. Outside of that they have always been for fun or flavor and die out after cycle 2.

I've been asleep or at work, but I still want to do a Xino-esque rules post here soon

Edit: ninja'd by the God King

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Edited March 31, 2020 by Elkanah

[The_God_King]

24 minutes ago, A Joe in the Bush said:

If we don't have a good reason to vote, I'm likely to vote on one of the people posting codes, as they're just making the game harder. I would prefer us to have some sort of discussion about the game that would lead to reasons for votes to be cast rather than just RNG voting. Hence why I brought up the PM reveal thingy as a good source of discussion. Does anyone have any thoughts on everyone revealing who they started PM's with? Or how active their PM's are?

I'm not sure knowing who has what PMs would lead to any more of an educated opinion. Any way we do it the imprisonment tonight would be about as random as it could be.

 

6 minutes ago, Elkanah said:

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How dare you insult my mother in such a way! also, your handwriting is terrible. Who taught you how to write, the greeks? (also if you didn't guess, the RP was heavy in that one)

Edited March 31, 2020 by The_God_King

[A Joe in the Bush]

3 minutes ago, The_God_King said:

I'm not sure knowing who has what PMs would lead to any more of an educated opinion. Any way we do it the imprisonment tonight would be about as random as it could be.

The knowing won't actually help, the discussion about whether or not to reveal might It will at least make people publically say why they want or don't want a reveal, and that might help people make opinions. I'm just trying to find something other than pure RNG.

[Guest Coda]

@The_God_King

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[The_God_King]

3 minutes ago, A Joe in the Bush said:

The knowing won't actually help, the discussion about whether or not to reveal might It will at least make people publically say why they want or don't want a reveal, and that might help people make opinions. I'm just trying to find something other than pure RNG.

This is true but I still feel that it is still rather random. also if we reveal our PMs elims are free to target anyone so they can narrow down roles (such as protection and cancels). It will take time but it gives more information for the Elims than for the village in the long run. 

@Coda

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[Elkanah]

9 minutes ago, The_God_King said:

I'm not sure knowing who has what PMs would lead to any more of an educated opinion. Any way we do it the imprisonment tonight would be about as random as it could be.

Hmmm. Well I was going to argue that we can follow the pattern of kills and conversions, but I realized that the factions aren't restricted by the PM target rule. I suppose I yield on this one. I don't think it does a whole lot for the eliminator team, but I realize it doesn't help us either.

[StrikerEZ]

@Elbereth Are conversions publicly announced when they happen? Did we only start with one Knight? (I'm expecting a PAFO on that one, but doesn't hurt to ask :P)

@A Joe in the Bush I'm conflicted on whether or not we should reveal who all we have PMs with. The faction actions, as far as I'm aware, aren't limited to who the faction members have PMs with, so knowing who has PMs with who won't really help us track down conversions and the kills. I can't really see advantages to disclosing our PM contacts, especially this early in the game. 

As for the lynch, I think it might be best to not have one today. Partially because I think it would be really sucky if we managed to jail/lynch the only Knight on D1, but also because we have a 87.5% chance of just hitting a Librarian anyway (assuming we started with 1 Knight and 1 Smedry). I'm not too set on not having a lynch if we decide someone is absolutely worthy of getting lynched today, however.  Personally, I don't think anyone's said anything too wild yet. 

Also, I would like to say that all the codes and stuff are a little bit annoying, but I think it's fine as long as you're posting other content with them!

[Elandera]

1 hour ago, A Joe in the Bush said:

If we don't have a good reason to vote, I'm likely to vote on one of the people posting codes, as they're just making the game harder. I would prefer us to have some sort of discussion about the game that would lead to reasons for votes to be cast rather than just RNG voting. Hence why I brought up the PM reveal thingy as a good source of discussion. Does anyone have any thoughts on everyone revealing who they started PM's with? Or how active their PM's are?

I'm split on revealing or not. On one hand, the current PMs are random and would help us better know possible sources for the tons of roleblocks out there. As Fifth said, wide use of roleblocks is a bad thing, so it might help to know who was responsible in order to find out why.

On the other hand, it will be easier to find out who is responsible for non-elim actions. Faction kills cannot be tracked with this method. Elims, however, would be able to track protection a little more easily if PM partners were common knowledge. 

My PMs are not super active. Haven't even had a response in one of them. The other is with someone probably as guarded as me, so information is slow. 

[Kidpen]

Hello folks! I exist, and that's about all I have to say for this moment.

[Guest Coda]

Okay, Striker. If you're really bothered by my codes with TGK, I'll add filler content to the top. Agree with everything, etc. Revealing PMs loses us nothing, as they were randomized and conversations can be lied about. Hiding PMs also loses us nothing.

@The_God_King

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Edited March 31, 2020 by Coda
Typo

[Shqueeves]

I'd be down to reveal PMs this time cause they're random, but in the future it seems less useful

[Elbereth]

 

31 minutes ago, StrikerEZ said:

@Elbereth Are conversions publicly announced when they happen? Did we only start with one Knight? (I'm expecting a PAFO on that one, but doesn't hurt to ask :P)

No, and PAFO.  

Edited March 31, 2020 by Elbereth

[Fifth Scholar]

3 hours ago, Kynedath said:

Gotta say folks, not a huge fan of the codes personally. All it really does is add to the noise we have to sift through to get to important information.

I'm assuming that it's pretty quiet on here because everyone is scheming in their PMs and figuring out how best to use their abilities. 

I don't really have that much to say. I'm not one to vote day 1, so I'll mostly be observing this cycle, and I'll have more context for what happens next cycle after the lynch results and such. For now just checking in, letting people know I exist.

My issue with the codes is more that they’re a means of communication which reward people with effort and time. While the second is random, Eliminators tend to have more of the first, and can pool their brains in a doc to help crack codes; as such, you really shouldn’t be saying anything in a code you’re not comfortable sharing with the entire group, and since the people who will actually bother to crack codes are usually evil, you might as well share what you have to say with the village as well. I’m not opposed to their use if they’re being used for a bit of fun, but if people are passing information along them, I will oppose that. 

I think it was quiet just from times of day shifting. People tend to be on in the morning a bit less (though you’re correct that a lot of people, myself included, have retreated to PMs). 

What information are you trying to look for as you “observe?” I’m a staunch supporter of the D1 lynch, and believe the best way to observe information is to create it with lynch discussion. As such, Kynedath. We need more votes than God King’s poke on Elandera anyway, particularly since that vote seems somewhat illegitimate given that its target has already provided two thoughtful posts. 

2 hours ago, A Joe in the Bush said:

Do you folks think that revealing who we all started PM's with would be more beneficial for the Eliminators or for the Village? I've put some thought into it, and can't quite decide. It wouldn't allow us to track the Smedry kills, but it could help us out a bit if we managed to find a Knight Silimatic Engineer, as they would want a PM with another knight so they could use Protector's Glass on them. But I think it would also go pretty far in revealing who a Jail-breaker is, and I'm not sure non village aligments will have one of them. What do you guys think would be a benefit or hindrance to such a plan?

I’m not in favour of revealing PM contacts. Keep in mind the Eliminator factions might not know roles, but they might strategically split up PMs they regard as active by converting or killing people in chains to prevent potential coordination. Keeping village communication together, even if we can’t trust the people we’re talking to, is important to me, and I’d rather not lose that. (Thank you for creating actual discussion, by the way, Joe.)

59 minutes ago, StrikerEZ said:

@Elbereth Are conversions publicly announced when they happen? Did we only start with one Knight? (I'm expecting a PAFO on that one, but doesn't hurt to ask :P)

@A Joe in the Bush I'm conflicted on whether or not we should reveal who all we have PMs with. The faction actions, as far as I'm aware, aren't limited to who the faction members have PMs with, so knowing who has PMs with who won't really help us track down conversions and the kills. I can't really see advantages to disclosing our PM contacts, especially this early in the game. 

As for the lynch, I think it might be best to not have one today. Partially because I think it would be really sucky if we managed to jail/lynch the only Knight on D1, but also because we have a 87.5% chance of just hitting a Librarian anyway (assuming we started with 1 Knight and 1 Smedry). I'm not too set on not having a lynch if we decide someone is absolutely worthy of getting lynched today, however.  Personally, I don't think anyone's said anything too wild yet. 

Also, I would like to say that all the codes and stuff are a little bit annoying, but I think it's fine as long as you're posting other content with them!

suppresses desire to vote for Striker D1 for not voting I’m not going to try to rehash the old D1 lynch debate, but tl;dr we should at least pretend that we’re having one to generate good discussion, even if we decide later we’d rather not kill people. Letting the Eliminators pick targets freely during the Night is mostly a waste of a cycle, and getting analysis off the ground always requires a lynch, even if we don’t necessarily want one or think it’ll work. It’ll also revitalise a discussion which is going somewhat in circles right now because nobody’s actually being accused of anything.  

[Kynedath]

@Fifth Scholar As I observe I'll be looking for interactions that seem off, for anyone trying to keep a low profile while still being useful to the village, as well as other eliminator behaviors. I am fully aware of the need for a Day 1 lynch, however I know that I feel awful when I get lynched/killed on day 1 so I choose to stay out of it on principle. By all means, have a lynch, get the information you need from it! I fully support you doing that! I just choose to abstain.

[StrikerEZ]

1 hour ago, Elandera said:

On the other hand, it will be easier to find out who is responsible for non-elim actions. Faction kills cannot be tracked with this method. Elims, however, would be able to track protection a little more easily if PM partners were common knowledge. 

Personally, I think this is the best reason to keep PM contacts secret from the whole thread. Individual players can make the decision whether or not to reveal their contacts to the people they're PMing, but that information being public could lead to the elims knowing who's going to be protected and who not to kill.

1 hour ago, Elbereth said:

No, and PAFO.  

Okay. If the pillar things are out on N1 and the Knights convert N1, do the Knights have to wait until N3 or can they try again on N2?

22 minutes ago, Fifth Scholar said:

’m not in favour of revealing PM contacts. Keep in mind the Eliminator factions might not know roles, but they might strategically split up PMs they regard as active by converting or killing people in chains to prevent potential coordination. Keeping village communication together, even if we can’t trust the people we’re talking to, is important to me, and I’d rather not lose that. (Thank you for creating actual discussion, by the way, Joe.)

This is another reason I'm starting to think revealing PM contacts probably isn't the best idea. I don't fault Joe for coming up with the idea (it's a lot harder to notice flaws in your own ideas), and I actually really appreciate him posting it because it caused a lot of really good discussion! Speaking of which....

24 minutes ago, Fifth Scholar said:

suppresses desire to vote for Striker D1 for not voting I’m not going to try to rehash the old D1 lynch debate, but tl;dr we should at least pretend that we’re having one to generate good discussion, even if we decide later we’d rather not kill people. Letting the Eliminators pick targets freely during the Night is mostly a waste of a cycle, and getting analysis off the ground always requires a lynch, even if we don’t necessarily want one or think it’ll work. It’ll also revitalise a discussion which is going somewhat in circles right now because nobody’s actually being accused of anything.  

bets you to do it anyway I wasn't trying to say that we shouldn't keep discussing things. I'm normally a big fan of D1 lynches, just this one is a bit interesting because we have the option of just jailing someone or taking them out of the game. Plus I just would feel very bad if we managed to lynch and kill the Crystal Knight this cycle (if there's only one-this might not be a problem consider El's PAFO). And yeah, I begrudgingly agree that, even when we don't want a lynch, we kinda need one to get some info and discussion going. Just I'm not happy that we're probably gonna kill a Librarian this cycle.  

[xinoehp512]

20 hours ago, Elbereth said:

6. Inhibitor's glass blocks the Smedry kill and negates the effect of any glass the target is currently using. 

Does that include any of the Oculator, Shattered Lens Pillar, Transporter or Madness Lenses?

 As for the lynch, I am a supporter of the D1 lynch. I think that imprisoning might be a reasonable compromise between death and a no-lynch.

Sart hasn't posted yet, so I think I'll throw down a poke for now. @Sart

[Elbereth]

1 minute ago, StrikerEZ said:

Okay. If the pillar things are out on N1 and the Knights convert N1, do the Knights have to wait until N3 or can they try again on N2?

Only a successful conversion action will prevent the Knights from converting the next night. This includes the pillars as well as any applicable roleblocks (yes, including the Smedry). 

2 minutes ago, xinoehp512 said:

Does that include any of the Oculator, Shattered Lens Pillar, Transporter or Madness Lenses?

...yes, yes it does. Wilson and I did not in fact think about it, but those are indeed included now that we have. 

[Sart]

Hmm... Codes... The Coder... Dakota... North Dakota... South Dakota... West Dakota... Coda!

Obviously, guilt by word association is the worst kind of guilt.

For more serious reasoning, I find it concerning that this is Coda's only post that's not encrypted.

1 hour ago, Coda said:

Okay, Striker. If you're really bothered by my codes with TGK, I'll add filler content to the top. Agree with everything, etc. Revealing PMs loses us nothing, as they were randomized and conversations can be lied about. Hiding PMs also loses us nothing.

@The_God_King

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Agreeing with everything means standing for nothing. In the immortal words of Calvin Coolidge

Quote

I have noticed that nothing I never said ever did me any harm.

By saying nothing and spreading no suspicion, Coda is trying to avoid harm, like a suspicious Crystal Knight or Smedry might do. For that reason, I vote for you.

[A Joe in the Bush]

5 minutes ago, StrikerEZ said:

This is another reason I'm starting to think revealing PM contacts probably isn't the best idea. I don't fault Joe for coming up with the idea (it's a lot harder to notice flaws in your own ideas), and I actually really appreciate him posting it because it caused a lot of really good discussion! Speaking of which....

I literally never said it was a good idea. I asked people what they thought about it, because i was trying to generate discussion. For instance, i now have a good reason to trust that Fifth Scholar is a crystal knight. What reason is that? He reads the strongest as village to me, and is active, so he'll probably get converted pretty dang soon. Which is sad. But i trust him until we know a conversion has probably happened.

[Guest Coda]

@Sart

Perfectly reasonable. To counter your arguments, I hereby support not revealing PMs.

EDIT: @The_God_King

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Edited March 31, 2020 by Coda
Avoid double-post

[Experience]

Wow. I have not been as active as last game. So it looks like there are currently votes on four different people right now. I feel like a kill vote will help us more than a capture vote because that way we can actually learn their role. I will go and read through the thread so far and decide who to place a vote on in a little bit.

[Shqueeves]

Elandera(1): The_God_King
Kynedath(1): Fifth
Sart(1): xino
Coda(1): Sart

Locking someone up over lynching them seems to have minimal benefit. IDK if it was already answered, but are prisoners exempted from death by failure to create PMs? If not, then it's just a slow death vs an immediate one, unless a jail-breaker gets themselves involved

[Zillah]

There's been a lot of codes back and forth, and I am personally getting a little annoyed with it. I enjoy puzzles and it’s fun to crack them, but after a while it just gets tedious. I also don’t really get the point of doing it. Day one isn’t my strong suit, so I’m just checking in for now. I’ll hopefully have more by the next cycle. For now it’s watching and observing. 

[StrikerEZ]

1 hour ago, A Joe in the Bush said:

I literally never said it was a good idea. I asked people what they thought about it, because i was trying to generate discussion. For instance, i now have a good reason to trust that Fifth Scholar is a crystal knight. What reason is that? He reads the strongest as village to me, and is active, so he'll probably get converted pretty dang soon. Which is sad. But i trust him until we know a conversion has probably happened.

Oh...sorry for the confusion? Either I read your post as advocating more for it than you meant or I just completely misunderstood to begin with. 

As for your read on Fifth, I wasn't necessarily getting a super strong village vibe from. To be fair, if I were a Crystal Knight, I'd probably leave Fifth unconverted (assuming he's village right now) and wait for him to earn his reputation of honorary elim.  (No offense @Fifth Scholar by the way. I hope you understand my point though )

I think if I had to vote on anyone right now, it'd probably be Coda? Or maybe someone who hasn't shown up yet? Has everyone shown up yet?

Also, I just realized that Knights/the Smedry are probably gonna want to avoid just locking people up as much as possible because they can still vote in lynches even though they don't count towards win cons anymore. So there could be a bunch of villagers locked up in jail which no one's going to want to waste faction actions on who can still impact the lynches. At the same time, we do need to truly lynch some people to get some info about alignments.