Long Game 64: Choose Your Own Sanderson Adventure!

[Ironfire]

@Elandera can you change your role to a specific lens, so people can expand on the oculators?

[Ironfire]

Role 1

Head of the Order of the Shattered Lens:

Twice per game, the Head can set up pillars that neutralize all night actions of the other factions for that night.

This includes the factional kill/conversion

If no night actions are done by the other factions, the pillars will stay up

[Experience]

2 minutes ago, Ironfire said:

neutralize all night actions

What does this mean?

[Straw]

1 hour ago, EXPERIENCE said:

What does this mean?

All actions during the night are blocked.

[Fifth Scholar]

It’s been a while and I need to jump back into SE while I have the time, so I’ll sign up as Sergey Karjakin, Russian ambassador and secret advisor to the Secretary of Defence. 

I too have not read Alcatraz, but that’s no excuse for not giving El and Wilson more of a headache more fun with writeups! So I have a flavour addition to the game.

The Thirtieth President: The specter of Calvin Coolidge haunts the White House. Once per phase, a d4 is rolled and one of the following writeup consequences results: 

1: Coolidge randomly interrupts both a random one-on-one and a random group PM with cryptic commentary.

2: Coolidge terrifies a random player out of his wits.

3: Coolidge participates in a murder, lynch, conversion, or other writeup-significant event. 

4: GM discretion (but it can’t be nothing ). 

[Kidpen]

1 hour ago, Ironfire said:

Role 1

Head of the Order of the Shattered Lens:

Twice per game, the Head can set up pillars that neutralize all night actions of the other factions for that night.

This includes the factional kill/conversion

If no night actions are done by the other factions, the pillars will stay up

Why is the flavor like this exactly? I don't remember any pillars like that in the book.

[Elbereth]

Hello all! Time for a multiquote, because even as a GM I can't help it.  

On 3/26/2020 at 10:01 PM, Straw said:

I would assume that role actions during the game would be submitted in the GM PM, unless the GMs say otherwise.

Correct. 

9 hours ago, EXPERIENCE said:

Sounds good. Quick question. I couldn't find it in the rules so on a lynch vote tie, is it random or are both killed. 

Unless Kynedath says differently (as they submitted the lynch mechanics rule), it'll be random. 

8 hours ago, EXPERIENCE said:

Also, here's another question for lynch. Someone that is captured can be lynched. Do they still need the 50%+ lynch vote to kill them, or do they no longer have that protection. 

Again, Kynedath can have input on this, but I would rule no - if you're captured and lynched by plurality, you'll die as if you'd been lynched by majority. 

8 hours ago, Elkanah said:

I have a few questions about the rules as they are right now. Are we adding Crystal Knights to one eliminator doc as we go? Is that a rule one of us need to add? While that doesn't fall under the purview of either suggestions for the rules for rules it seems like an important rule.

Is the game currently winnable for the liebrarians? Even without Kynedath's more interesting (if complicated) lynch mechanic, the liebrarians would lose at parity. Even a normal lynch becomes insurmountable when the teams are even. The crystal knights must know who their teammates are because they are converting them. You can't hide information from the person providing it. Given that, maybe we want to consider having liebrarian only kill roles that they lose upon conversion. That makes the Liebrarians the eliminators with the village as the secret faction. Sorry if that kills the flavor, but I'm hoping help keep it balanced.

I appreciate the clarification that locked up players do not count toward or against win conditions, but can they still be converted for their vote. If they can, is that revealed after the rest of their role has already been revealed?

I understand the gossiper isn't restricted by the one on one PM rule, but is he restricted by the 'you can only target those you have PMs with' rule? It's implied that it's not restricted, but I'd like it explicit.

Does each Crystal Knight have a convert power, or is it a faction action? Will you take the first or last submission for conversion if there is only one convert per cycle?

(edited to remove everything that isn't a question)

Crystal Knights will be added to an elim doc as they're converted, and that doesn't need to be made into a rule by one of you. 

We will definitely make sure this game is balanced for both sides. Right now, that somewhat depends on the final roles and rules, but I think it's fairly likely that the Crystal Knights will not get a conversion every cycle (since conversions are twice as powerful than just kills). 

I'm going to rule that the Crystal Knights can convert captured players. Remember that role and alignment both will not be revealed upon capture, only upon death. 

You're correct. The Gossiper can have anyone in this group PM, whether they also have a personal PM with that person. Effectively the Gossiper role doesn't interact with the PM rule at all, which you can think of as only covering one-on-one cases. 

Faction action, last submission in the turn. 

7 hours ago, Ironfire said:

Role 1

Head of the Order of the Shattered Lens:

Twice per game, the Head can set up pillars that neutralize all night actions of the other factions for that night.

This includes the factional kill/conversion

If no night actions are done by the other factions, the pillars will stay up

I'm not sure about twice per game, though it depends on the eventual number of players we have. I'm assuming that this is not a public, announced action: do you want to be a turn in advance (so put in during the previous Day turn) or simultaneous? 

Though the last bit is somewhat unlikely, I'll nix it anyway - more than one night of no actions in a row is going to be annoying for everyone. 

5 hours ago, Fifth Scholar said:

It’s been a while and I need to jump back into SE while I have the time, so I’ll sign up as Sergey Karjakin, Russian ambassador and secret advisor to the Secretary of Defence. 

I too have not read Alcatraz, but that’s no excuse for not giving El and Wilson more of a headache more fun with writeups! So I have a flavour addition to the game.

The Thirtieth President: The specter of Calvin Coolidge haunts the White House. Once per phase, a d4 is rolled and one of the following writeup consequences results: 

1: Coolidge randomly interrupts both a random one-on-one and a random group PM with cryptic commentary.

2: Coolidge terrifies a random player out of his wits.

3: Coolidge participates in a murder, lynch, conversion, or other writeup-significant event. 

4: GM discretion (but it can’t be nothing ). 

Fifth? You're amazing.  

[Elkanah]

6 hours ago, Fifth Scholar said:

It’s been a while and I need to jump back into SE while I have the time, so I’ll sign up as Sergey Karjakin, Russian ambassador and secret advisor to the Secretary of Defence. 

I too have not read Alcatraz, but that’s no excuse for not giving El and Wilson more of a headache more fun with writeups! So I have a flavour addition to the game.

The Thirtieth President: The specter of Calvin Coolidge haunts the White House. Once per phase, a d4 is rolled and one of the following writeup consequences results: 

1: Coolidge randomly interrupts both a random one-on-one and a random group PM with cryptic commentary.

2: Coolidge terrifies a random player out of his wits.

3: Coolidge participates in a murder, lynch, conversion, or other writeup-significant event. 

4: GM discretion (but it can’t be nothing ). 

I love this so much!

8 hours ago, Ironfire said:

Role 1

Head of the Order of the Shattered Lens:

Twice per game, the Head can set up pillars that neutralize all night actions of the other factions for that night.

This includes the factional kill/conversion

If no night actions are done by the other factions, the pillars will stay up

Does this include creating PMs?

32 minutes ago, Elbereth said:

Hello all! Time for a multiquote, because even as a GM I can't help it.  

Crystal Knights will be added to an elim doc as they're converted, and that doesn't need to be made into a rule by one of you. 

We will definitely make sure this game is balanced for both sides. Right now, that somewhat depends on the final roles and rules, but I think it's fairly likely that the Crystal Knights will not get a conversion every cycle (since conversions are twice as powerful than just kills). 

I'm going to rule that the Crystal Knights can convert captured players. Remember that role and alignment both will not be revealed upon capture, only upon death. 

You're correct. The Gossiper can have anyone in this group PM, whether they also have a personal PM with that person. Effectively the Gossiper role doesn't interact with the PM rule at all, which you can think of as only covering one-on-one cases. 

Faction action, last submission in the turn. 

Thank you so much for the answers!

Cool

I'm still just as concerned about the win conditions, but I'll trust you to work that out

Thank you, I had forgotten that clarification. Is there a reason for the crystal knights to convert captured players, yet? I might have to come up with a role that interacts with that.

Cool

Cool

Thank you  

 

I'll probably choose some roles as soon as I can think of interesting ones.

Edited March 28, 2020 by Elkanah
clarity

[Elbereth]

4 minutes ago, Elkanah said:

Does this include creating PMs?

Thank you, I had forgotten that clarification. Is there a reason for the crystal knights to convert captured players, yet? I might have to come up with a role that interacts with that.

Ah, I was going to mention that and forgot, thanks! I'm fairly sure the answer is no: pillars will block all actions, but not PMs. 

Generally no, since it doesn't count towards their win condition. But it could happen: for instance, if a captured player is very accurate on several of their members, and generally helping the village (or, conversely, would be really useful for convincing the village to go elsewhere). Unlikely? Sure. Would I convert LG21!Aman in such a scenario? Probably.  

[Kynedath]

1 hour ago, Elbereth said:

Unless Kynedath says differently (as they submitted the lynch mechanics rule), it'll be random. 

Again, Kynedath can have input on this, but I would rule no - if you're captured and lynched by plurality, you'll die as if you'd been lynched by majority. 

Yes, both of these are correct.

[Straw]

Just a reminder, but @xinoehp512, do you have the third faction ready yet?

[xinoehp512]

2 hours ago, Straw said:

Just a reminder, but @xinoehp512, do you have the third faction ready yet?

I have an idea. How much am I allowed to make up for the faction?

[Elbereth]

Just now, xinoehp512 said:

I have an idea. How much am I allowed to make up for the faction?

Flavor, win condition, faction action, interactions with other factions... pretty much anything, really. If it’s too much we’ll let you know.  

[Ironfire]

Actually, PMs are blocked when the Head of the Order of Shattered Lens activates the pillars, because in the fourth book of Alcatraz, the giant robots stick big glowing rods (I thought they were pillars rip) into the ground, which blocks communication lens from working as well as communicative glass. I just kinda extended it to include all night actions because it seemed a little underpowered if it only blocked PMs.

[xinoehp512]

3 hours ago, Elbereth said:

Flavor, win condition, faction action, interactions with other factions... pretty much anything, really. If it’s too much we’ll let you know.  

Hmm...

My idea is a Smedrys faction, with a goal to kill all the Librarians. (Or eliminate, or whatever.) Before I go further, I'd just like to make sure that doesn't irreversibly mess up the balance or anything.

[Elbereth]

2 hours ago, Ironfire said:

Actually, PMs are blocked when the Head of the Order of Shattered Lens activates the pillars, because in the fourth book of Alcatraz, the giant robots stick big glowing rods (I thought they were pillars rip) into the ground, which blocks communication lens from working as well as communicative glass. I just kinda extended it to include all night actions because it seemed a little underpowered if it only blocked PMs.

Hm, okay. This will not count towards the PM inactivity filter, then, but that's fine. 

1 hour ago, xinoehp512 said:

Hmm...

My idea is a Smedrys faction, with a goal to kill all the Librarians. (Or eliminate, or whatever.) Before I go further, I'd just like to make sure that doesn't irreversibly mess up the balance or anything.

Don't worry. We will fix the balance. That makes it a village-vs-two-evils deal, so the village will be buffed a bit and the Crystal Shards nerfed, but it's certainly doable. We may have to provide some disincentive to the evil teams working together to win the game, but that's fine. 

Basically, balance is our job.  You tell us what idea you want, and then we make sure it works. What you've given us so far is definitely feasible. 

[xinoehp512]

2 hours ago, Elbereth said:

Hm, okay. This will not count towards the PM inactivity filter, then, but that's fine. 

Don't worry. We will fix the balance. That makes it a village-vs-two-evils deal, so the village will be buffed a bit and the Crystal Shards nerfed, but it's certainly doable. We may have to provide some disincentive to the evil teams working together to win the game, but that's fine. 

Basically, balance is our job.  You tell us what idea you want, and then we make sure it works. What you've given us so far is definitely feasible. 

Good!

So, of course, the most notable thing about the Smedrys is their Talents, seemingly detrimental traits that are actually incredible useful in the correct situations. Ideally, each Smedry would have their own unique Talent that translated into some in-game ability.

However, the other most notable thing about the Smedrys is their complete and utter unpredictability. To represent this in game, any action an Smedry takes has a chance to be moved to any random non-Smedry individual.

Is this alright?

[Experience]

Here are my roles. I hope their balanced. 

Jail-breaker: Each day, you can release one locked up player. This makes it so that they can take actions, make PM's, and count towards win cons. This action has a 20% chance of failure and 10% chance of being caught, causing the Jail-breaker to be locked up. 

Criminal: You have been to jail so many times that you are a leader among the inmates. When you are locked up, each other locked up person's lynch vote has a 40% chance of changing to the same as your vote.

Edited March 29, 2020 by EXPERIENCE
made more clear

[Elkanah]

I don't know the flavor so anyone who knows I'd appreciate help naming the roles. 

 

Role 1: You may target a player with whom you have a PM. For all intents and purposes you have changed positions. Any action that would target you is used on them. Any that would target them would target you. 

GM discretion as to whether this applies to PMs 

Role 2: You may target a player. That player's actions are assigned randomly among legal targets this cycle (including those in jail. PMs excluded.

 

Feel free to adjust these to manageable parameters. 

[A Joe in the Bush]

21 minutes ago, Elkanah said:

I don't know the flavor so anyone who knows I'd appreciate help naming the roles. 

 

Role 1: You may target a player with whom you have a PM. For all intents and purposes you have changed positions. Any action that would target you is used on them. Any that would target them would target you. 

GM discretion as to whether this applies to PMs 

Role 2: You may target a player. That player's actions are assigned randomly among legal targets this cycle (including those in jail. PMs excluded.

 

Feel free to adjust these to manageable parameters. 

For Role 1, I'd go with Transporter's Glass operator, or just Transporter. For Role 2, we'd have to make something up I think. Maybe a Lens that causes insanity it the target? Madness Lenses probably.

[Experience]

*In the middle of typing names*

Gets ninja'd by Joe.

[A Joe in the Bush]

6 minutes ago, EXPERIENCE said:

*In the middle of typing names*

Gets ninja'd by Joe.

Get used to it. =P

[Elbereth]

20 hours ago, xinoehp512 said:

Good!

So, of course, the most notable thing about the Smedrys is their Talents, seemingly detrimental traits that are actually incredible useful in the correct situations. Ideally, each Smedry would have their own unique Talent that translated into some in-game ability.

However, the other most notable thing about the Smedrys is their complete and utter unpredictability. To represent this in game, any action an Smedry takes has a chance to be moved to any random non-Smedry individual.

Is this alright?

Hm, okay. I think that's fine - we may create individual roles for the Smedrys, and may or may not reveal what they are. Or we might use others' roles. TBD, but the principle of it is fine. 

1 hour ago, EXPERIENCE said:

Here are my roles. I hope their balanced. 

Jail-breaker: Each day, you can release one locked up player. This makes it so that they can take actions, make PM's, and count towards win cons. This action has a 20% chance of failure and 10% chance of being caught, causing the Jail-breaker to be locked up. 

Criminal: You have been to jail so many times that you are a leader among the inmates. When you are locked up, each other locked up person's lynch vote has a 40% chance of changing to the same as your vote.

Hmmmm. I think those are reasonable, though Wilson and I might have small tweaks. (For instance, Jail-breaker might have a higher chance of failure or released players might have a limited time to stay out.) 

45 minutes ago, Elkanah said:

Role 1: You may target a player with whom you have a PM. For all intents and purposes you have changed positions. Any action that would target you is used on them. Any that would target them would target you. 

GM discretion as to whether this applies to PMs 

Role 2: You may target a player. That player's actions are assigned randomly among legal targets this cycle (including those in jail. PMs excluded.

My spreadsheet is going to be unhappy.  But yeah, those look fine. Probably going to rule that the first rule doesn't apply to PMs, pending further consideration. 

 

Announcement: Signups for this game will close tonight at 9pm Pacific Time as specified in the OP. Then we'll have a day for Wilson and I to make final adjustments to balance, and the game will begin at 6 p.m. Pacific Time. Note the change - that will be the rollover time for the remainder of the game. (Unless we change it again, which is admittedly possible.) 

7 more hours to signup if you're on the fence, folks! 

[Experience]

2 minutes ago, Elbereth said:

Hmmmm. I think those are reasonable, though Wilson and I might have small tweaks. (For instance, Jail-breaker might have a higher chance of failure or released players might have a limited time to stay out.) 

I would rather it have a higher chance of failure. What about 35% chance of failure?

[Elbereth]

8 minutes ago, EXPERIENCE said:

I would rather it have a higher chance of failure. What about 35% chance of failure?

After a fair amount of discussion, we've settled tentatively on this: 
The Jail-breaker has three chances to break people out from prison. Each time, they get more practiced in breaking people out, so they're more likely to succeed. But the guards become more and more alert, so they have a higher chance of being caught. 

Try 1: 80% chance of failing, no chance of being caught.
Try 2: 50% to fail, 30% chance to be caught.
Try 3: 20% chance to fail, 60% chance to be caught.