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Syl's fate


Frustration

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Proceed at your own risk.

Kaladin's arc is based around how everyone close to him dies, he must take the death of someone extremely close to him and accept it. There is no one closer than Syl. This is compounded by his admition that he needs to be there for the living not the dead, so unfortunately Syl must die irreversibly and totally, sent to the Beyond dead. I can't see a way around it and that terrifies me, but I see nobody else close enough to Kal to maximize the feels.

Edited by Booknerd
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1 minute ago, Booknerd said:

Kaladin's arc is based around how everyone close to him dies, he must take the death of someone extremely close to him and accept it. There is no one closer than Syl. This is compounded by his admition that he needs to be there for the living not the dead, so unfortunately Sylust die irreversibly and totally, sent to the Beyond dead. I can't see a way around it and that terrifies me, but I see nobody else close enough to Kal to maximize the feels.

Good grief!

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3 minutes ago, Eluvianii said:

I'm gonna evade the sadness this theory gives me by nitpicking, so, how do you kill a spren?

If you wish to avoid the sadness I point you to my first line. Also as how to kill them Kal does so in Oathbringer seems Shardblades work just fine. If not we always have Odium, I am sorry.

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8 minutes ago, Booknerd said:

If you wish to avoid the sadness I point you to my first line. Also as how to kill them Kal does so in Oathbringer seems Shardblades work just fine. If not we always have Odium, I am sorry.

He did? Welp, I can always, just cross my fingers.

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14 minutes ago, Booknerd said:

If you wish to avoid the sadness I point you to my first line. Also as how to kill them Kal does so in Oathbringer seems Shardblades work just fine. If not we always have Odium, I am sorry.

This theory has problems he insists.  If Syl dies then Kaladin can't swear any more oaths and he becomes just an ordinary person. 

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Just now, Karger said:

In which case he can resurrect Syl.  Problem solved.

You'll note I said

 

35 minutes ago, Booknerd said:

 Syl must die irreversibly and totally, sent to the Beyond dead. 

The Beyond is past Shardaic influence. Or potentially He could get a power up via Cultivation, Surgebinding is not the only source of power.

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Syl isn't a mortal.  She cannot die in the same manner as mortal beings,  being part of a Shard and all that. Now it's possible for her to be irretrievable in some way, but even that's a stretch.  I believe it would take a direct strike from a Shard or shard representative to do the trick, and it's a trick likely as harmful to the attackers as it would be for Syl. 

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12 minutes ago, Booknerd said:

The Beyond is past Shardaic influence. Or potentially He could get a power up via Cultivation, Surgebinding is not the only source of power.

I am not sure that the same rules apply the same way for spren.  Splintering Syl might be possible but I doubt Odium would go to the extra effort of breaking down her spiritual aspect as well.  There would be no point.  Then when he ascends Kaladin will resurrect her.  As to a Cultivation power up.  Brandon has implied that her stuff will be more of a back five thing.

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1 minute ago, Karger said:

I am not sure that the same rules apply the same way for spren.  Splintering Syl might be possible but I doubt Odium would go to the extra effort of breaking down her spiritual aspect as well.  There would be no point.  Then when he ascends Kaladin will resurrect her.  As to a Cultivation power up.  Brandon has implied that her stuff will be more of a back five thing.

Spren are Cognitive Shadows they're halfway to dead already.  Any kill should end them. As to a back five unless we have confirmation on a death for Kal any time is possible

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Just now, Booknerd said:

Spren are Cognitive Shadows they're halfway to dead already. 

Killing a spren would be as hard as killing Mistborn Secret History Spoilers

Spoiler

Kelseir something that would actually have cost Ruin some effort. 

 

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2 minutes ago, Booknerd said:

Spren are Cognitive Shadows they're halfway to dead already.  Any kill should end them. As to a back five unless we have confirmation on a death for Kal any time is possible

Spren are not Cognitive Shadows. They are beings made of pure investiture. There is a difference.

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3 minutes ago, Karger said:

Killing a spren would be as hard as killing Mistborn Secret History Spoilers

  Reveal hidden contents

Kelseir something that would actually have cost Ruin some effort. 

 

SH

Spoiler

Ruin would have obliterated Kel, Preservation under it's many vessels were the only things that saved him was the only thing that saved him.

 

6 minutes ago, Nameless said:

Spren are not Cognitive Shadows. They are beings made of pure investiture. There is a difference.

Personified by humans cognitive perseption of particular attributes or things rather 'shadowy' if you ask me.

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11 minutes ago, Booknerd said:

SH

It still would have required deliberate effort.  This is more then I think is really necessary especially since just trapping or injuring Syl would accomplish the same thing faster and more easily.

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23 minutes ago, Karger said:

It still would have required deliberate effort.  This is more then I think is really necessary especially since just trapping or injuring Syl would accomplish the same thing faster and more easily.

Destroying the Stormfather was only avoided because Odium feared a Cultivation retribution destroying Syl would be way easier and probably less risky.

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2 minutes ago, Booknerd said:

Destroying the Stormfather was only avoided because Odium feared a Cultivation retribution destroying Syl would be way easier and probably less risky.

But destroying the stormfather would actually do something.  Killing Syl only really damages Kaladin and as I have said there are easier methods. 

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1 hour ago, Booknerd said:

Unless Kaladin Accends.

Well, his name does mean "He who is born unto eternity."

That said, I don't think Syl will "die" so much as be assimilated upon the swearing of Kaladin's final Oath. And, even that's a bit of a stretch.

Edited by BasementDwellingRadiant
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3 hours ago, Booknerd said:

SH

  Reveal hidden contents

Ruin would have obliterated Kel, Preservation under it's many vessels were the only things that saved him was the only thing that saved him.

 

Personified by humans cognitive perseption of particular attributes or things rather 'shadowy' if you ask me.

Cognitive Shadows are once-mortals that became suffused with enough investiture to persist after physical death. Spren are living embodiments of ideas/ideals. They're both composed of investiture, but I consider how they got that way to be an important distinction.

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5 hours ago, Booknerd said:

Proceed at your own risk.

Kaladin's arc is based around how everyone close to him dies, he must take the death of someone extremely close to him and accept it. There is no one closer than Syl. This is compounded by his admition that he needs to be there for the living not the dead, so unfortunately Syl must die irreversibly and totally, sent to the Beyond dead. I can't see a way around it and that terrifies me, but I see nobody else close enough to Kal to maximize the feels.

No it isn't. His arc is about learning to protect people. He must be able to deal with death so that he can protect those still alive, that is why we have this focus recently. But that does not mean that his arc is about dealing with death.

Besides, we have already seen him face this struggle in book 2 - he thought he killed Syl, and yet, Kaladin still managed to protect someone and save the day, even without her. Having her be killed again in the process you describe will just be a rehashing of book 2's climax.

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Yep Spren can die. 

 

Pinpoint

Can Shardblades kill spren?

Brandon Sanderson

Theoretically, yes.

 

Questioner

Can spren die?

Brandon Sanderson

Spren can die but they are energy which cannot be destroyed. So dying means something different to them than it means to us.

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7 hours ago, Booknerd said:

Proceed at your own risk.

Kaladin's arc is based around how everyone close to him dies, he must take the death of someone extremely close to him and accept it. There is no one closer than Syl. This is compounded by his admition that he needs to be there for the living not the dead, so unfortunately Syl must die irreversibly and totally, sent to the Beyond dead. I can't see a way around it and that terrifies me, but I see nobody else close enough to Kal to maximize the feels.

Kaladin's arc is more than just everybody around him dying.

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