Child of Hodor

Hoid Makes a Deal With Odium

53 posts in this topic

Theory: Hoid is gathering up magic from all the Shards for some purpose. Odium is of the Shards. He will cut a deal with Rayse to get some of Odium’s magic.

Hoid’s Mission

He was in Elantris to try and become an Elantrian. He was on Scadrial to get a bead of Lerasium. He was on Roshar to become a Radiant which he has as of OB.

There is one more Shard in this system whose magic he needs.

Hoid will go to Braize 

Brandon said “has Hoid been to Braize” is one of the biggest RAFOs https://wob.coppermind.net/events/221/#e6196

In WoK Ch 57 Hoid tells Kaladin his purpose in Roshar was to “chase an old acquaintance, but I spend most of my time hiding from him instead”

In WoR Ch. 67 he tells Dalinar he’s willing to “watch this world crumble and burn to get what I need.”

He doesn’t want Odium to win, which is why he’s sending all those letters. But he is going to help Odium out in exchange for voidbinding powers to add to his collection.

i predict the book 4 epilogue is Hoid on Braize talking to Rayse.

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57 minutes ago, Child of Hodor said:

Hoid on Braize talking to Rayse.

Nice, that rhymes. (Just a gut reaction, sorry. :P)

58 minutes ago, Child of Hodor said:

There is one more Shard in this system whose magic he needs.

Actually, there are two more. Yes, if he wants Odium's power, he would have to cut a deal with Rayse. That being said, he also needs the power of Cultivation. I think it's more likely that the Book 4 epilogue will show Hoid getting a boon/bane from the Nightwatcher.

Hoid really despises Rayse, and I truly believe that it would take a life-threatening event to force him into a deal. However, with the presence of Nightblood on Roshar... well, that leaves room for some very interesting occurrences. If Odium gets his hands on Nightblood, then perhaps a deal isn't too far off. 

In my opinion, your idea of Hoid on Braize talking to Rayse sounds like a perfect, suspenseful epilogue for Book 5, closing out the first arc. I love the idea of it!

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3 minutes ago, Ashspren said:

I think it's more likely that the Book 4 epilogue will show Hoid getting a boon/bane from the Nightwatcher.

I love this idea.

Hot take: Cultivation's Vessel is an old flame of Hoid's from back om Yolen.

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Just now, Goatbringer said:

I love this idea.

Hot take: Cultivation's Vessel is an old flame of Hoid's from back om Yolen.

Wonder how Tanavast is feeling about that... 

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7 minutes ago, Ashspren said:

Wonder how Tanavast is feeling about that... 

He probably feels dead inside.

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4 minutes ago, Stormfather-in-Law said:

He probably feels dead inside.

And thanks to Odium, he's dead on the outside too! Gotta love heartbreak.

 

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Given that Hoid hates Rayse a lot, I think it's more likely that Hoid will work to destroy Rayse, and then maybe make a deal with his successor.

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7 minutes ago, RShara said:

Given that Hoid hates Rayse a lot, I think it's more likely that Hoid will work to destroy Rayse, and then maybe make a deal with his successor.

Something like that.  Or maybe make a deal with one of the unmade and then possibly double cross them. 

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10 minutes ago, RShara said:

Given that Hoid hates Rayse a lot, I think it's more likely that Hoid will work to destroy Rayse, and then maybe make a deal with his successor.

As much as this idea appeals to me, I think Rayse is going to stick around for a little while. Rayse himself–– and not just Odium–– is shaping up to be the main antagonist of the Stormlight Archive, so I would be surprised if he was gone before Book 10. 

2 minutes ago, Karger said:

Something like that.  Or maybe make a deal with one of the unmade and then possibly double cross them. 

I think this is more likely. Given that an Unmade isn't quite at the same level as a Shard, this leaves more plausibility for Hoid being able to outplay them. 

Granted, I'm still kind of hooked onto the idea of Nightblood being used to threaten Hoid's life. We know that Nightblood could potentially kill him, and now that Vasher-as-Zahel has brought it to Roshar, I'm looking forward to an interaction between the two. 

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All the Odium derived magic seem to take something from the wielder ("give me your pain"). I don't think Hoid would want something that is detrimental to himself.

He forwent Ruin's magic due to the damaged Spiritweb as a backdoor into the mind thing that was built into Hemalurgy.

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11 hours ago, Dreamer said:

All the Odium derived magic seem to take something from the wielder ("give me your pain"). I don't think Hoid would want something that is detrimental to himself.

He forwent Ruin's magic due to the damaged Spiritweb as a backdoor into the mind thing that was built into Hemalurgy.

Right. And while the Nightwatcher might also give him a bane, he’s also getting a boon out of it... so, unless Hoid was actually an old flame on Yolen, it should balance out. :P 

Additionally, Hoid and Cultivation have the same goal: stop Rayse. That makes a deal a bit more palatable. 

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Spoiler

What about Ruin? Think he would use hemalurgy? Would that be the only way to gain the power of that shard?

 

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1 hour ago, Chalke219 said:

 

  Hide contents

What about Ruin? Think he would use hemalurgy? Would that be the only way to gain the power of that shard?

 

Quote

Ruro272 (paraphrased)

Does Hoid have a Hemalurgically charged Nicrosil spike?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

It's... unlikely. Hoid would not want to open himself to the influence of Shards so using Hemalurgy on himself is unlikely. Although Hemalurgy is the easiest way to get other powers, he'd more likely do things the hard way.

Minicon 2015 (April 2, 2015)

 

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5 hours ago, Chalke219 said:

 

  Hide contents

What about Ruin? Think he would use hemalurgy? Would that be the only way to gain the power of that shard?

 

Spoiler

There is also Feruchemy, it is half from Ruin's power. I think that there is a WoB that Hoid tried to obtain it in WoA/HoA.

Concerning Odium's power, I am not sure if Hoid would want connection to him at this time. But he can convince Sja-Anath to corrupt his Cryptic in a pinch, I guess? Thus getting access to powers of all 3 Shards in Rosharan system through one tidy Nahel bond package.

Odium doesn't need Nightblood to quash Hoid like a bug, BTW. Didn't Hoid tell as much to somebody in SA at some point? Maybe Dalinar? 

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20 minutes ago, Isilel said:
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There is also Feruchemy, it is half from Ruin's power. I think that there is a WoB that Hoid tried to obtain it in WoA/HoA.

 

Odium doesn't need Nightblood to quash Hoid like a bug, BTW. Didn't Hoid tell as much to somebody in SA at some point? Maybe Dalinar? 

Yeah WoK he talked about it, I think if a bunch of fused got together and used division Hoid would eventually die.

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On 3/19/2020 at 6:02 PM, Booknerd said:

Yeah WoK he talked about it, I think if a bunch of fused got together and used division Hoid would eventually die.

Or Odium could just kill him himself.

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1 hour ago, Nameless said:

Or Odium could just kill him himself.

Well yeah but I'm trying to find an easier way to kill him.

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Just now, Booknerd said:

Well yeah but I'm trying to find an easier way to kill him.

Or you just tie him up in chains made of living beings, so that he can't break them, and repeatedly hemalurgicly spike healing out of him.

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Just now, Nameless said:

Or you just tie him up in chains made of living beings, so that he can't break them, and repeatedly hemalurgicly spike healing out of him.

Exactly what being are you making chains out of?

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1 minute ago, Booknerd said:

Exactly what being are you making chains out of?

Fused carapace. They have the order that can grow weapons and stuff out of it, so why not chains?

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2 minutes ago, Nameless said:

Fused carapace. They have the order that can grow weapons and stuff out of it, so why not chains?

I don't know how much that would count if Hoid sees them as cognitive shadows he could harm them, or if he sees carapace as closer to fingernails he could probably break them

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Just now, Booknerd said:

I don't know how much that would count if Hoid sees them as cognitive shadows he could harm them, or if he sees carapace as closer to fingernails he could probably break them

Then put pain receptors in them

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8 hours ago, Nameless said:

Then put pain receptors in them

Nameless aka Morgoth lol, my money is that your theory gets a tipping-of-the-hat by Brandon by the end of the series. That guys definitely does read this stuff 

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On 3/18/2020 at 1:25 PM, Ashspren said:

As much as this idea appeals to me, I think Rayse is going to stick around for a little while. Rayse himself–– and not just Odium–– is shaping up to be the main antagonist of the Stormlight Archive, so I would be surprised if he was gone before Book 10. 

I think this is more likely. Given that an Unmade isn't quite at the same level as a Shard, this leaves more plausibility for Hoid being able to outplay them. 

Granted, I'm still kind of hooked onto the idea of Nightblood being used to threaten Hoid's life. We know that Nightblood could potentially kill him, and now that Vasher-as-Zahel has brought it to Roshar, I'm looking forward to an interaction between the two. 

Well, I was saying it was more likely, not that either of them are very likely :)

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10 hours ago, RShara said:

Well, I was saying it was more likely, not that either of them are very likely :)

Thanks for clarifying :)

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