A Possible Lead on Cultivation's Vessel

[Bigmikey357]

Some enterprising person way back when figured out Edgli was Endowment based off of a flower that grew only on Nalthis, one that made exceptional dyes. Maybe something similar is going on on Roshar, where a naturally occurring phenomenon gets a name whose origin got lost in the annals of history, a name we later find out is actually significant in that it's a root for the Vessel in residence. 

Well there is something like this on Roshar. It builds the continents in the absence of plate tectonics. It stimulates plant growth; we've been told that stormwater is better for the plant life. It supposedly facilitates the growth of gem hearts in native species.  It's crem. I think Cultivation's Vessel has crem in her name. 

A potential problem with this theory is that the stuff likely existed before the arrival of H and C in system, and something of these natural processes were already in place. However,  names change as do processes.  We don't know how much the ecosystem changed when she got there, we don't know if the role crem plays in Rosharan growth was handled by some other process, or whether this portion of Investiture was pre-assigned to Cultivation and thus was a factor in choosing her planet after the Shattering. We don't know if crem was called something else either.  

The result is likely inconclusive but I think her name, just like every other Vessel we've ever come into contact with, has something with her name attached to it in the natural world. Edgli's flower, Aons for Aona, Skazi for Shai, Atium and Lerasium for Ati and Leras, even Badvadin gets natural stuff named for her avatars,  like Patji and Trell. So Cultivation's name has crem in it.

Thoughts anyone? 

[Honorless]

3 hours ago, Bigmikey357 said:

Some enterprising person way back when figured out Edgli was Endowment based off of a flower that grew only on Nalthis, one that made exceptional dyes. Maybe something similar is going on on Roshar, where a naturally occurring phenomenon gets a name whose origin got lost in the annals of history, a name we later find out is actually significant in that it's a root for the Vessel in residence. 

Well there is something like this on Roshar. It builds the continents in the absence of plate tectonics. It stimulates plant growth; we've been told that stormwater is better for the plant life. It supposedly facilitates the growth of gem hearts in native species.  It's crem. I think Cultivation's Vessel has crem in her name. 

A potential problem with this theory is that the stuff likely existed before the arrival of H and C in system, and something of these natural processes were already in place. However,  names change as do processes.  We don't know how much the ecosystem changed when she got there, we don't know if the role crem plays in Rosharan growth was handled by some other process, or whether this portion of Investiture was pre-assigned to Cultivation and thus was a factor in choosing her planet after the Shattering. We don't know if crem was called something else either.  

The result is likely inconclusive but I think her name, just like every other Vessel we've ever come into contact with, has something with her name attached to it in the natural world. Edgli's flower, Aons for Aona, Skazi for Shai, Atium and Lerasium for Ati and Leras, even Badvadin gets natural stuff named for her avatars,  like Patji and Trell. So Cultivation's name has crem in it.

Thoughts anyone? 

*Skaze for Skai

*Bavadin

Trell is the name of some natural phenomenon or object?

[Bigmikey357]

2 hours ago, Dreamer said:

*Skaze for Skai

*Bavadin

Trell is the name of some natural phenomenon or object?

Thanks for the spelling corrections.  As for Trell, no natural processes that I'm aware of but he does get a religion and a star name. The thousand eyes of Trell and such sundries. 

[Steel Inquisitive]

I like this! I'm having a hard time thinking of a name out of it... Cremitha? Lorcremia? (IDK I'm bad at this:-))

Another one I remember speculation on is from Reya's tear. It's the name of the brightest star in Roshar's night sky.

[Elegy]

The names of Tanavast and Rayse haven't appeared on Roshar though, so by that standard, I kinda doubt there's a Cremilla in the cosmere. But it's an interesting idea!

46 minutes ago, Steel Inquisitive said:

I like this! I'm having a hard time thinking of a name out of it... Cremitha? Lorcremia? (IDK I'm bad at this:-))

Another one I remember speculation on is from Reya's tear. It's the name of the brightest star in Roshar's night sky.

Yes, but he has since confirmed that it's not her:

Quote

Green Hoodie Mistborn

Is Reya Cultivation's name?

Brandon Sanderson

No.  (Sorry)

General Signed Books 2014 (Jan. 1, 2014)

I personally like to think that Reya's Tear is Ashyn (since it's bright and Ashyn is close to Roshar) and Reya was a queen/an important person that lead the people to Roshar.

[hgleclair]

5 hours ago, Elegy said:

The names of Tanavast and Rayse haven't appeared on Roshar though, so by that standard, I kinda doubt there's a Cremilla in the cosmere. But it's an interesting idea!

Yes, but he has since confirmed that it's not her:

I personally like to think that Reya's Tear is Ashyn (since it's bright and Ashyn is close to Roshar) and Reya was a queen/an important person that lead the people to Roshar.

Not to derail but I agree that it’s ashyn and my head cannon has always been that Reya’s Tear is actually a play on Odium. If Odium came with the humans to Roshar maybe he had something to do with the destruction of Ashyn. And Reya’s is relatively close to Rayse. But that could or be a connection that I completely made up.

[Frustration]

6 hours ago, Elegy said:

The names of Tanavast and Rayse haven't appeared on Roshar though, so by that standard, I kinda doubt there's a Cremilla in the cosmere. But it's an interesting idea!

.

One Rayse would spear on Braize, which kind of ryme. Also TANAvast TANAlan TALAn-Eiln TARAvangain the last two are a bit of a stretch but you can see it.

 

14 hours ago, Bigmikey357 said:

 Badvadin gets natural stuff named for her avatars,  like Patji and Trell. 

When was it confirmed that Trell was an avatar of Autonomy?

[Gilphon]

1 hour ago, Booknerd said:

When was it confirmed that Trell was an avatar of Autonomy?

It hasn't been confirmed, but we're at the point where that's fairly obviously the case. Like, it has been confirmed that Trell is a Shard that we now about, and it would make zero sense for Trell to be Harmony, Endowment or Cultivation, so the only remaining suspects are Autonomy and Odium. 

And at that point, Autonomy is just a much better for the evidence than Odium is. The ancient religion is very reminiscent of Taldain, and there's a random craftsman living on Taldain named Trell and it's been confirmed that that isn't coincidental. The modern Trellists talk about how men should be allowed to stand on their own without outside interference, and don't talk about Hatred or Passion at all. Creating Avatars all over the place in Autonomy's main schtick, and meanwhile Odium is totally stuck on Roshar. 

So, like, we can't be 100% certain, but, c'mon.

1 hour ago, Booknerd said:

The names of Tanavast and Rayse haven't appeared on Roshar though, so by that standard, I kinda doubt there's a Cremilla in the cosmere. But it's an interesting idea!

There's Nun Raylisi, the evil God in the Tashikk religion. That's being clearly based on the name Rayse. But I know what you mean; that's not exactly a natural phenomenon is the same way the Tear of Edgli or Atium is. 

[Bigmikey357]

@Booknerd

Rayse and Tanavast haven't popped up on the scanner of natural phenomenon as of yet, but remember we have not visited even a third of Roshar yet, at least not in an in depth way. Plus, this is a world that has seen multiple extinction level events.  Maybe their natural phenomena did not survive the ages. Or maybe I'm just wrong.  I'm sure that the name will be revealed someday. 

[Frustration]

1 hour ago, Gilphon said:

It hasn't been confirmed, but we're at the point where that's fairly obviously the case. Like, it has been confirmed that Trell is a Shard that we now about, and it would make zero sense for Trell to be Harmony, Endowment or Cultivation, so the only remaining suspects are Autonomy and Odium. 

And at that point, Autonomy is just a much better for the evidence than Odium is. The ancient religion is very reminiscent of Taldain, and there's a random craftsman living on Taldain named Trell and it's been confirmed that that isn't coincidental. The modern Trellists talk about how men should be allowed to stand on their own without outside interference, and don't talk about Hatred or Passion at all. Creating Avatars all over the place in Autonomy's main schtick, and meanwhile Odium is totally stuck on Roshar. 

So, like, we can't be 100% certain, but, c'mon.

Maybe but I don't think Autonomy would have too much trouble with Harmony and his almost non-intervention standpoint. Odium however wants Harmony gone but is afraid to act directly. Also if this is true trellium should be called Odiumium, or perhapse OdIUM.

[Honorless]

7 hours ago, Booknerd said:

Maybe but I don't think Autonomy would have too much trouble with Harmony and his almost non-intervention standpoint. Odium however wants Harmony gone but is afraid to act directly. Also if this is true trellium should be called Odiumium, or perhapse OdIUM.

There's a theory about why Autonomy might want to attack Harmony by @asmodeus:

Hoid has stated that he does not like the Vessels of Odium & Autonomy (Rayse and Bavadin)

People have wondered how Odium managed to oppose multiple Shards at once on two occasions. One can say that Devotion is an opposite of Odium and Dominion is an opposite of Autonomy.

I tried to compile a list of supporting evidences for the possibility of either Autonomy or Odium or both being Trell here:

 

[Pete]

On 16/03/2020 at 9:44 AM, hgleclair said:

Not to derail but I agree that it’s ashyn and my head cannon has always been that Reya’s Tear is actually a play on Odium. If Odium came with the humans to Roshar maybe he had something to do with the destruction of Ashyn. And Reya’s is relatively close to Rayse. But that could or be a connection that I completely made up.

Interestingly, "Reya's" is an anagram of "Rayse"

[Honorless]

Could Cultivation's Vessel's name be Senna?

[Frustration]

2 hours ago, Dreamer said:

Could Cultivation's Vessel's name be Senna?

For?

[Honorless]

4 minutes ago, Booknerd said:

For?

Senna was the name that Leras mentioned in Secret History: "Oh Senna, I'm losing them all" when Kelsier hugged him after realizing how painful losing the people of Scadrial to Ruin was for him.

Quote

Questioner

Preservation says, "Oh Senna, how I've failed you?" My question is, is he saying as an "Oh deity?" or is he saying this as "Oh my old...?"

Brandon Sanderson

Yes, it's more the second. 

Arcanum Unbounded release party (Nov. 22, 2016)

Quote

Questioner

Who's Senna?

Brandon Sanderson

RAFO.

Leipzig Book Fair (March 24, 2017)

 

[Frustration]

But why would it be Cultivation? Last I checked there was nothing special between her and Preservation.

[Honorless]

6 minutes ago, Booknerd said:

But why would it be Cultivation? Last I checked there was nothing special between her and Preservation.

We don't really know anything about the Vessels. Just that they're all from Yolen and participated at the Shattering. So they could've known and been close to one another. Some of the Vessels did have relationships with one another

Quote

Wetlander

Were any of the original Shardholders related? We know that Honor and Cultivation were romantically involved, but were any of them brother and sister or child/parent?

Brandon Sanderson

There was at least one relationship of that style.

Firefight Seattle UBooks signing (Jan. 6, 2015)

Oh and did you know

Quote

Alaxel (Paraphrased)

He asked for "Something juicy about Odium that no one knows about yet."

Brandon Sanderson

Odium and Hoid were once friends.

General Signed Books 2014 (Feb. 15, 2014)

but now Hoid doesn't like Rayse (or Bavadin). Edgli didn't seem to care much about Uli Da, or for that matter Aona and Skai either. Lots of relationship drama between the original Vessels that we don't know about and won't know about till around Dragonsteel

[18th Shard]

Just to note, I doubt Cultivation was romantically involved with Preservation, as she was romantically involved with Honor (as referenced in the WoB referenced above). While she could also have been friends with Preservation, I highly doubt that they were close enough for him to note her the way we see him do, as I think almost everyone interprets Preservation as using the name Senna in a romantic sense.

Edited April 8, 2020 by 18th Shard
Complete lack of sense

[Frustration]

51 minutes ago, 18th Shard said:

Just to note, I doubt Cultivation was romantically involved with Honor (as referenced in the WoB referenced above. While she could also have been friends with Preservation, I highly doubt that they were close enough for him to note her the way we see him do, as I think almost everyone interprets Preservation as using the name Senna in a romantic sense.

StormAtlas (paraphrased)

Were Cultivation and Honor romantically involved?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

Yes.

Rithmatist Albuquerque signing (May 22, 2013)

[18th Shard]

...I have no idea how that got typed the way it did. I am fully aware of that WoB. I think I meant to put Preservation instead of Honor, then got distracted and picked up without reading my own sentence. 

Wow. 

Well, let's edit that.

[Sandra]

I would have guessed it to be Reya, if it wasn't for that WOB that says otherwise... Someone should ask Brandon if the name of Cultivation's vessel is hidden somewhere in the books or if it's going to be a complete surprise. 

[Ripheus23]

On 3/15/2020 at 8:42 PM, Frustration said:

Odiumium

Delicious.

I personally would bet on "Larsta" as relevant to Cultivation's name. The Coppermind says: "Be warned, the Larsta love oath is binding," and "it focused on the simple beauty of nature."

[Subvisual Haze]

Nahel(la)?  The Nahel bond between sentient life and spren and the way the bond grows in symbiotic strength over time certainly seem Cultivation-y.

[Sandra]

14 minutes ago, Subvisual Haze said:

Nahel(la)?  The Nahel bond between sentient life and spren and the way the bond grows in symbiotic strength over time certainly seem Cultivation-y.

I like that a lot, but this WOB tells us no. 

 

Argent

The namesake of the Nahel bond. Was that a person, or is just a name?

 

Brandon Sanderson

It's a word in original Alethi as I was working on it. And actually, the original didn't use "bond." Bond was implied by it. The word meant, "connection to the divine." It's gotten larger since then...

 

Blightsong

So when Vasher takes a similar name, he's trying to imply that meaning?

 

Brandon Sanderson

Yes.

 

https://wob.coppermind.net/events/373/#e12060

[Ripheus23]

5 hours ago, Subvisual Haze said:

Nahel(la)?

Nahelahalehan.

Also a delicious crem-based spread, like Nutella.