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I Really Reeaallyy Hate Shallan


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Just now, Nameless said:

Those are comic book characters. This is Epic Fantasy. Would you read a book about a Gary Stu who goes around out-maneuvering all of his foes, with no internal conflict whatsoever? 

That actually sounds awesome, reading Hoid kicking butt for 1,000 pages. Mmmmmmm. 

1 minute ago, Nameless said:

I'm not saying that Hoid needs to have a complete reversal in his views, but a little wavering in his goals couldn't hurt.

I find it quite annoying at times when characters can't make a decision on things like seriously you've gone your whole life and now you need to make a moral code!! Maybe you should have done that years ago!!  it feels so cheesy when characters can't see the answer that is staring them in the face and I'm tired of reading it. 

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5 minutes ago, Booknerd said:

That actually sounds awesome, reading Hoid kicking butt for 1,000 pages. Mmmmmmm. 

Have you ever heard the saying "too much of a good thing?"

5 minutes ago, Booknerd said:

I find it quite annoying at times when characters can't make a decision on things like seriously you've gone your whole life and now you need to make a moral code!! Maybe you should have done that years ago!!  it feels so cheesy when characters can't see the answer that is staring them in the face and I'm tired of reading it. 

So Hoid shouldn't think about his actions? I am not saying that he changes his mind completely, I'm saying that he thinks about whether his goal is worth it, or something similar.

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3 minutes ago, Nameless said:

Have you ever heard the saying "too much of a good thing?"

I can always take a break, or overdose(is that the term for reading?)

3 minutes ago, Nameless said:

So Hoid shouldn't think about his actions? I am not saying that he changes his mind completely, I'm saying that he thinks about whether his goal is worth it, or something similar.

Well he should but I would think that would be a one paragraph thing where he weighs his options, or sticking to tradition runs off laughing only to come back and insult everyone five seconds later

 

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Just now, Booknerd said:

I can always take a break, or overdose(is that the term for reading?)

Yeah, but a great book would make you want to keep reading.

1 minute ago, Booknerd said:

Well he should but I would think that would be a one paragraph thing where he weighs his options, or sticking to tradition runs off laughing only to come back and insult everyone five seconds later

When Hoid is the main character, we are going to see all of his internal struggles. If he has none, then he is a flat character, and as such wouldn't make a good protagonist.

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Just now, Nameless said:

Yeah, but a great book would make you want to keep reading.

True 

1 minute ago, Nameless said:

When Hoid is the main character, we are going to see all of his internal struggles. If he has none, then he is a flat character, and as such wouldn't make a good protagonist.

Or he has already established morals and doesn't need to spend every single stinking line debating weather or not it's morl to do something! Just  cause a rebellion and establish a justice system to decide what to do with the Dark lord!! Ahem small rant there, but anyway small consideration is not an arc that's just practical.

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11 minutes ago, Booknerd said:

Or he has already established morals and doesn't need to spend every single stinking line debating weather or not it's morl to do something! Just  cause a rebellion and establish a justice system to decide what to do with the Dark lord!! Ahem small rant there, but anyway small consideration is not an arc that's just practical.

The bottom line is this: In order for a book to be good, there needs to be some sort of conflict in it. Perhaps Hoid discovers that everything he's been doing has been playing right into Odium/Autonomy/someone we haven't met yet's hands. He then has to change both his plans. In Dragonsteel, we will at least see Hoid develop into what he is today.

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Just now, Nameless said:

The bottom line is this: In order for a book to be good, there needs to be some sort of conflict in it. Perhaps Hoid discovers that everything he's been doing has been playing right into Odium/Autonomy/someone we haven't met yet's hands. He then has to change both his plans. 

I think you meant to put something else here, also can you honestly see Hoid being played?

2 minutes ago, Nameless said:

 In Dragonsteel, we will at least see Hoid develop into what he is today.

Haven't I said that that is the only acceptable change for Hoid?

 

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17 minutes ago, Nameless said:

Yes. No one is infallible.

Hmmmm. you are correct No one is perfect in everyway I talked with him about it this morning.

but in all seriousness This is Hoid we're talking about I can't see anything he is doing helping his opponents.

Also when I said I think you meant  to put something else here you said both but only put one thing.

 

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I want to pitch to Brandon a short story about Hoid, but to avoid spoilers for Dragonsteel, have it be from his new spren's perspective. As the spren gains sapience and acuity, its observations on Hoid's antics and comments and Truths would be amazing.

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1 minute ago, RShara said:

I want to pitch to Brandon a short story about Hoid, but to avoid spoilers for Dragonsteel, have it be from his new spren's perspective. As the spren gains sapience and acuity, its observations on Hoid's antics and comments and Truths would be amazing.

Please do you have my support that sounds Awesome!!! 

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On 3/13/2020 at 11:43 AM, gloriousGlorfindel said:

I'm honestly the opposite, I hated Kaladin for most of book one (until the end, that was effin epic). I didn't realize that he was depressed and just thought he was too emo for me. On a second read now that I know this, he is more interesting.

I loved Shallan right from the get go. She's really witty and I appreciate and empathize with her yearning for scholarship. And Jasnah is a big bonus!

Emo slaves

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6 hours ago, Booknerd said:

So Hoid is trying to make connections with  Radiants because that increases his chances. I also fail to see what him being in Kholinar for purposes he didn't know has to do with anything, we are discussing the fact that Hoid has no Character arc.

I understand those WOBs to be explaining what is going on, but there is nothing indicating that Hoid is explicitly aware of these phenomena or that he has incorporated that knowledge into his long-term plans.

Hoid has plans, but they are playing out over millennia. Over the timeline of SA scenes, Hoid is improvising every bit as much as our other characters. He just does this with the benefit of all his extra experience.

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24 minutes ago, Q10fanatic said:

I understand those WOBs to be explaining what is going on, but there is nothing indicating that Hoid is explicitly aware of these phenomena or that he has incorporated that knowledge into his long-term plans.

This is Hoid, he knows

24 minutes ago, Q10fanatic said:

Hoid has plans, but they are playing out over millennia. Over the timeline of SA scenes, Hoid is improvising every bit as much as our other characters. He just does this with the benefit of all his extra experience.

And fortune

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On 3/28/2020 at 10:26 AM, Booknerd said:

So he goes from trolling everyone to helping a child, seems like normal Hoid behavior. The only arc that wouldn't ruin Hoid is whatever made him what he is now.

Hence the reason Brandon's writing that book.

Also, there's that chapter where he admits to Shallan that for a moment he didn't know what was going on, which I found intriguing.

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On 3/28/2020 at 2:39 PM, RShara said:

I want to pitch to Brandon a short story about Hoid, but to avoid spoilers for Dragonsteel, have it be from his new spren's perspective. As the spren gains sapience and acuity, its observations on Hoid's antics and comments and Truths would be amazing.

You already have Booknerd's support, but let it be known that you have mine as well!

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