this might have some spoilers Connection among the Parshendi

[GoWibble]

So I am rereading through the SA (yes, again) and I came across a section with Jasnah and Dalinar talking about when they first met the Parshendi. Dalinar says that they started speaking their language (Althei? How is it spelled?!?) very quickly. Did this have to do with a form, or with voidbinding? Voidbinding doesn't make sense because 

Spoiler

(yes I know that OB has been out for a while, but I have friends that are complaining about spoilers)

the Fused aren't there yet

Please explain. 

[Karger]

1 hour ago, GoWibble said:

Please explain. 

I think the listeners and specifically Eshonai were just naturally good at languages.  The ones they met were in workform so no voidbinding could have been going on based on how we know voidbinding to work(you need a form of power).  It is possible that due to a lack of literacy and a standardized language they more often communicated with people who spoke very different dialects and as such were better at that kind of communication.

Edited March 5, 2020 by Karger

[Quantus]

It's definitely not Voidbinding or anything like that, those Powers didnt return widely until the Everstorm events.  Back then they were just far smarter than the human's thought they would be (Parshendi literally translates to "Parshman who can Think", which is largely because they'd only ever met the "slave-form" Parshendi who were

Spoiler

spiritually damaged back in the day to hobble their sentience (via a process that hasnt yet been explained).    

In that sense it you could call it a Form-related issue, but at most it would be a form that is generally smarter than the others.  The Envoy Form does grant actual supernatural language capability, but those Forms of Power had not been rediscovered back then.  At the time they only knew Dullform, Workform, Warform, Nimbleform, and Mateform; with one each being their ruling body, and Eshonai (one of the ones that learned quickly) wearing/representing the Warform.   

PS.  Spelled "Alethi", which is both the language and the People of Alethkar.  Which in turn is the modern incarnation of the ancient Silver Kingdom of Alethela.

[GoWibble]

3 hours ago, Quantus said:

Nimbleform

This was explained that it filled in for a form of power Scholarform or something? Maybe this was a part of it.

3 hours ago, Quantus said:

PS.  Spelled "Alethi", which is both the language and the People of Alethkar.  Which in turn is the modern incarnation of the ancient Silver Kingdom of Alethela.

thanks. I was just too busy to find it on the Coppermind especially when I couldn't spell it. 

[Karger]

2 hours ago, GoWibble said:

This was explained that it filled in for a form of power Scholarform or something? Maybe this was a part of it.

Most scholars did use nimbleform.  This was a form rediscovered during the war(probably be Venli and Co) that was good at caring for children, art, and scholarship.  The Songs do speak of a separate scholarform but the listeners never learned it.

[Bookish Ocelot]

6 hours ago, GoWibble said:

So I am rereading through the SA (yes, again) and I came across a section with Jasnah and Dalinar talking about when they first met the Parshendi. Dalinar says that they started speaking their language (Althei? How is it spelled?!?) very quickly. Did this have to do with a form, or with voidbinding? Voidbinding doesn't make sense because 

  Reveal hidden contents

(yes I know that OB has been out for a while, but I have friends that are complaining about spoilers)

the Fused aren't there yet

Please explain. 

I'm gonna go out into wild theory land, so please feel free to ignore this If crackpot theories aren't your thing.

Anyways.

The Parshendi have a huge focus on music with the rhythms and things right? Well, music is full of patterns. Once you play or sing for a while, you find patterns that repeat across all sorts of songs and pieces. For example, the I-IV-V-IV chord progression in literally every song ever. Gradually, you learn to pick up on these patterns and anticipate them. My point is, a background in music could make the parshmen very good at noticing patterns, which are a huge thing in language.

They could also just have really good flashcards. 

[Karger]

22 minutes ago, Bookish Ocelot said:

They could also just have really good flashcards. 

That is also possible I suppose.

[Bookish Ocelot]

1 hour ago, Karger said:

That is also possible I suppose.

Flashcards are the key to success.

[+Invocation]

It's also possible that it was Gavilar. He was on track to become a Bondsmith, likely also with the Stormfather, since he mutters "Unite them" at one point, and we know Dalinar can forge Connection with Spiritual Adhesion. Could just be that in a semi-passive effect.

Quote

Ted Herman (paraphrased)

Has Dalinar been on the Bondsmith path for a long time? How about Gavilar?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

Yes to both.

Brandon said that Gavilar had been on the Bondsmith path for longer than Dalinar has been.

Arcanum Unbounded Hoboken signing (Dec. 3, 2016)

 

[Pathfinder]

13 hours ago, Invocation said:

It's also possible that it was Gavilar. He was on track to become a Bondsmith, likely also with the Stormfather, since he mutters "Unite them" at one point, and we know Dalinar can forge Connection with Spiritual Adhesion. Could just be that in a semi-passive effect.

 

On the path does not mean bonding. I will need a moment but I will update with the corresponding WoB.

So as shown below, Gavilar was not bonded to the Stormfather when he received the visions like Dalinar. So although he was on the path longer than Dalinar, Gavilar did not end up bonding him like Dalinar did. Now having said that, I do know and acknowledge you were saying it might be a semi-passive effect. I don't think it was, but that is just my own opinion. 

 

Questioner

The visions Dalinar gets in WoK always struck me as odd – you don’t just look at the past, you are able to act within this experience. Now we know that Gavilar was also on the way to being a Bondsmith – was he acting in a different way? Were the visions only basically the same but different in the end depending on the personal reactions? Is this something like a test?

Brandon Sanderson

He did see the same visions. They were the same thing. But… I will say that his reaction to them were very different from Dalinar’s reactions to them. Anyway it was difficult for the Stormfather without a bond to determine/to tell the difference between very easily. When Spren are bonded, they gain a lot more ability to understand the world around then, so you’ll find out soon more stuff about this in the third book.

Leipzig Book Fair (March 24, 2017)

Edited March 6, 2020 by Pathfinder

[+Invocation]

2 hours ago, Pathfinder said:

On the path does not mean bonding. I will need a moment but I will update with the corresponding WoB.

My thought process is that before Kaladin had actually said an Oath, he was able to do some of the things Windrunners could unconsciously, so it stands to reason that maybe, even without an Oath, Gavilar would have been able to do something similar with the attention of the Stormfather on him.

[Pathfinder]

22 minutes ago, Invocation said:

My thought process is that before Kaladin had actually said an Oath, he was able to do some of the things Windrunners could unconsciously, so it stands to reason that maybe, even without an Oath, Gavilar would have been able to do something similar with the attention of the Stormfather on him.

I believe it is confirmed via WoB, though I would have to locate it, that that is because Kaladin was already bonding Syl, he just hadn't spoken the oaths yet. In Gavilar's case, the stormfather had sent him the visions, and Gavilar had been on the path, but had not started to bond the stormfather yet. 

[+Invocation]

8 minutes ago, Pathfinder said:

I believe it is confirmed via WoB, though I would have to locate it, that that is because Kaladin was already bonding Syl, he just hadn't spoken the oaths yet. In Gavilar's case, the stormfather had sent him the visions, and Gavilar had been on the path, but had not started to bond the stormfather yet. 

Ah, fair enough. My bad.

[Pathfinder]

3 minutes ago, Invocation said:

Ah, fair enough. My bad.

No problemo. The dividing line is pretty amorphous so it can get confusing. So apparently Kaladin did enough for the bond to begin to form even before he said the words, while Gavilar although was on the path for awhile, I guess never went in the "right direction" enough for the bond to begin to form. 

 

 

I found the WoB I was talking about. posted it below:

 

Questioner

When does a person become a Surgebinder? Cause Kaladin talks about when he was a child, talked about it being a familiar feeling, and Shallan obviously was younger. Or is it when they speak the Words?

Brandon Sanderson

The bond starts forming before the Words are spoken, but if the words are never spoken that bond will eventually evaporate and get broken. But the bond will start forming before. Just like an emotion attracts a spren, acting in the way that the spren you would eventually bond will start drawing them toward you and that will start to create that bond.

Words of Radiance Philadelphia signing (March 21, 2014)

Edited March 6, 2020 by Pathfinder

[SingingMosaic]

On 3/5/2020 at 10:35 PM, Bookish Ocelot said:

I'm gonna go out into wild theory land, so please feel free to ignore this If crackpot theories aren't your thing.

Anyways.

The Parshendi have a huge focus on music with the rhythms and things right? Well, music is full of patterns. Once you play or sing for a while, you find patterns that repeat across all sorts of songs and pieces. For example, the I-IV-V-IV chord progression in literally every song ever. Gradually, you learn to pick up on these patterns and anticipate them. My point is, a background in music could make the parshmen very good at noticing patterns, which are a huge thing in language.

They could also just have really good flashcards. 

This is my favorite. Something messed with my brain in a way that drastically decreased my musical ability somewhere around twelve years ago, and I still hear patterns everywhere, to the point where I exasperate people because I can so often tell if a sound is organic or just reproduced, my catalog of sounds in my environment and information about them, so on. One of my favorite things when I was little was sitting there and listening to languages I didn't know out in public and trying to figure out what was going on. I could map inflection patterns the fastest, so I think this is why I have so few problems with tones, aside from really specific ones, because I can map your tones and your cadences in my sleep. Anyway, this is supposed to back you up lol my bad, I kind of just wandered off into oooo sound oooo patterns land for a minute there... Anyway if my broken brain can still do a lot of pattern recognition intuitively, a bunch of highly musical, adaptable people are very likely good at it.

 

On 3/6/2020 at 0:47 AM, Invocation said:

It's also possible that it was Gavilar. He was on track to become a Bondsmith, likely also with the Stormfather, since he mutters "Unite them" at one point, and we know Dalinar can forge Connection with Spiritual Adhesion. Could just be that in a semi-passive effect.

 

There is also this, and this is likely, I imagine it was some of both. Oh OK that's what this pattern means. Oh hey for some reason I can communicate more easily with you than I should. And then everyone carries on because they don't know how to know what's significant yet.