Hemalurgic Shardblades?

[Halyo_Alex]

1 minute ago, cometaryorbit said:

I agree that Aluminum Hemalurgy (not aluminumminds - feruchemy) does not do the same thing as Nightblood. I was just saying that the specific Spiritual-cutting effect we see on Roshar isn't necessary to qualify as a "Shardblade", since Nightblood's effect is different.

 

I agree that being highly Invested by itself doesn't give any destructive effect. It should, however, let the object block a Shardblade (more like a half-shard shield).

My suggestion was that an Aluminummind that was hugely Invested by Compounding (just a bit less than the maximum for a sword-sized object, not totally "full", to allow "room" for the Hemalurgic charge) would block a Shardblade. The Aluminum Hemalurgy (not Feruchemy) was then added to give the "power destruction effect".

Oh, okay, that actually sounds plausible. And more importantly, Aluminum can block a shardblade by default, you don't even need to cram it full of Identity feruchemical charge. Aluminum negates the Roshardblade (lol) supernatural cutting ability, meaning it requires regular cutting physics to cut through Aluminum. So Aluminum foil won't mysteriously block a shardblade, but a big, beefy aluminum sword could, probably. It'd dent, for sure, but it'd be like using a regular sword shaped like a shardblade to cut aluminum.

[cometaryorbit]

Ah hmmm good point.

I wonder if there is a way to use an enormous (1000+ Breath equivalent) Feruchemical charge to "hack" the power-destruction Aluminum Hemalurgy effect into something more like a Nightblood Realmatic-destruction effect? Scadrian magics aren't as "flexible" as Nalthian Commands, much less Selish "programming", so maybe not, but it would be cool.

[DiePie]

Since duralumin is an aluminum alloy (aluminum and copper), would it carry over aluminum's effects on investiture or would they change like they do in alomancy?

Because Duralumin is as strong/stronger than steel, and if it has anti-investiture properties, it would be the perfect metal for weapons and armor made to fight against shardblades, since they would not be able to use their invested effects on anything made out of it

[Halyo_Alex]

2 hours ago, DiePie said:

Since duralumin is an aluminum alloy (aluminum and copper), would it carry over aluminum's effects on investiture or would they change like they do in alomancy?

Because Duralumin is as strong/stronger than steel, and if it has anti-investiture properties, it would be the perfect metal for weapons and armor made to fight against shardblades, since they would not be able to use their invested effects on anything made out of it

I'm searching through the Arcanum for WoBs on that. So far I've found this one.

Quote

Oudeis16

Is duralumin easier, harder, or the same to Push on allomantically as, say, tin?

Brandon Sanderson

I'm going to start moving into "RAFO almost everything" mode here, unfortunately, as (with the weekend over) I need to be getting into the ending of the book itself. Some of the questions, though not yours, are getting very detailed and I need to scale back on answers for now. (Sorry.)

Stormlight Three Update #5 (Nov. 21, 2016)

Aaand that seems to be it for Wobs containing the word "duralumin" that are relevant to it retaining Aluminum's anti-investiture properties.

So basically, there's no wobs confirming it. Checking the coppermind page on it, it doesn't have anything on it there, either. So we have no idea for sure.

[DiePie]

9 hours ago, Halyo_Alex said:

Aaand that seems to be it for Wobs containing the word "duralumin" that are relevant to it retaining Aluminum's anti-investiture properties.

So basically, there's no wobs confirming it. Checking the coppermind page on it, it doesn't have anything on it there, either. So we have no idea for sure.

yeah I noticed that... Well I guess we got to read and find out if you can create an anti-investiture set of armor and weapons using duralumin

[Halyo_Alex]

6 hours ago, DiePie said:

yeah I noticed that... Well I guess we got to read and find out if you can create an anti-investiture set of armor and weapons using duralumin

To be fair, Allomantic Duralumin is only 4% copper, 96% Aluminum, so it seems pretty rusting likely that it does conserve Aluminum's supernatural property of making things completely non-supernatural

[18th Shard]

Spoiler

Quote

Brandon Sanderson

People ask about getting the power from metals and things, but that’s not actually how it works. The power’s not coming from metal. I talked a little about this before, but you are drawing power from some source, and the metal is actually just a gateway. It’s actually the molecular structure of the metal… what’s going on there, the pattern, the resonance of that metal works in the same way as an Aon does in Elantris. It filters the power. So it is just a sign of “this is what power this energy is going to be shaped into and give you.” When you understand that, Compounding [in Alloy of Law] makes much more sense.

Quote

PatrickDiomedes (paraphrased)

I asked whether aluminum blocking Investiture is simply an on/off situation, or whether different amounts/different alloys would inhibit it in different degree.

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

It was theoretically possible.

Arcanum Unbounded Hoboken signing (Dec. 3, 2016)

Quote

zas678

If an Awakener went to Roshar and bled color from a gem, would this gem still hold Stormlight?

Brandon Sanderson

If an Awakener bled-- No it would-- Oh wait yes it would because a colorless gem could still hold Stormlight. It just would not have--

zas678

Would not have the properties of the original color.

Brandon Sanderson

Yeah, the color is integral to what's going on because molecularly some of these gems are the same except for the different coloring. The coloring is kind of what--

zas678

What defines what magic.

Brandon Sanderson

Yeah. It has to with fabrials and some of the effects, and that relates directly to the spren and what spren-- anyway.

Holiday signing (Dec. 12, 2015)

Quote

Andrew The Great (paraphrased)

If someone aluminum or duralumin burned the feruchemically charged metals, what would happen?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

Basically the same thing as above, except with aluminum. Aluminum, they would just go away.

Idaho Falls Signing (June 20, 2009)

Personally, I kind of doubt duralumin would actually inherit those properties - it seems to be more of a Realmatic thing determined by the Identity of something as aluminum, and so like gemstones of the wrong color, duralumin wouldn't work even those it is very close physically to aluminum.

[Ataraxian Wist]

On 3/15/2020 at 5:27 PM, 18th Shard said:

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Personally, I kind of doubt duralumin would actually inherit those properties - it seems to be more of a Realmatic thing determined by the Identity of something as aluminum, and so like gemstones of the wrong color, duralumin wouldn't work even those it is very close physically to aluminum.

Well, we know that unpushable bullets are made of an aluminum alloy, not pure aluminum, so it definitely could work.

Also, I'm so glad this conversation is always being revived. I would have spent a long time looking for any of the old ones, because I haven't been on here in FOREVER.

 

My thoughts: that Reddit theory is actually very similar to my old ones, though a few details lend it SO MUCH MORE SENSE than mine ever made. But there is one problem. The theory leaps from 'we invested the crap out of this and put very specific, tappable powers into it' straight to 'this is complex enough that it should use them on its own.'

Yeah. Major problem, that. However, I might have a way around it.

Blood has been used to trick Hemalurgic spikes into retaining their charges. We don't know exactly how, but I suspect that the blood actually has access to those abilities while the spikes are stored therein. Except, not really, because, you know, blood can't use magic.

We've also seen a Hemalurgic spike used to connect a Cognitive Shadow to the Physical Realm - a la Sovereign. We can only assume that the "active ingredient" spike was H. Duralumin, which steals Connection/Identity. Though maybe it was something else. Not important.

Point is, some sort of spike literally put a Cognitive Shadow into the Physical Realm. That C. Shadow could actually use the Metallic Arts. And we've never seen a spike of that kind stored in blood.

My theory is that, in order to make a sword that is actually capable of using the Metallic Arts, you'd just need to pour some blood into a cavity in the sword, then pound a Sovereign Spike into that cavity. After that, the sword can be forged up so that the spike is welded in - or left as a removable "key"  and the damage is repaired, as long as the blood bonds to the sword instead of burning completely off, since Marsh has revealed that the blood only needs to touch the spike when it is first placed (Vin's earring also demonstrates this caveat).

Maybe more would be needed, like other veins within the blade for blood to sit around in that initially connect to the spikehole, but at any rate this should give the sword the ability to use the powers it has been invested with, as long as they are unkeyed OR keyed to the person whose C. Shadow just got stuffed into it.

The problem we run into now is that those powers could actually be depleted over time as the sword taps them, but That would leave it like a Nightblood that you have toactively feed, rather than one that simply devours your soul with a touch. So I think this Mistblade - because you HAVE to call it a Mistblade - would actually work.

 

EDIT: The issue becomes this: How in Damnation can you summon this thing?

Edited April 13, 2020 by Sazedezas
Update.