ToaCalune

Nicrosil metalminds (possible spoilers for mistborn era 2)

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Posted (edited)

So this question has probably already been answered, but I can't find anything on it. So I'll ask anyway. (Sorry if this is redundant. It has just been driving me NUTS!)

Ok, so this has been confusing me since Bands of Mourning. So, you have to have the proper feruchemical power to access an un-keyed metalmind, right? So why does there seem to be this inconsistency with nicrosil? Everyone seems to have the ability to use an un-keyed nicrosilminds regardless of whether or not you are already a nicrosil ferring, so what is going on?

Edited by ToaCalune
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Posted (edited)

Let's separate the two special types of metalmind first:

- There are Unkeyed Metalminds, which are metalminds without Identity. Identity is what allows the metalmind to recognize its user, and is the reason why only its user can normally make use of it. But one without Identity makes it possible for any user of that power to use it. So a Gold Metalmind allows any other Bloodmaker to make use of it.
- There are Unsealed Metalminds, which are metalminds that storing Investiture of a type and are also without Identity. Investiture in that context is used as the ability of Nicrosil allows the user to store the raw ability to make use of a power. Normally just that doesn’t give anyone the ability to make use of it (which means that we don’t know exactly what Nicrosil’s base power is for) but when it’s also Unkeyed, it makes anyone able to make use of the metalmind like if I had the power. 

The Bands would basically be an Unsealed Metalmind optimized version with all (as far as we know) Allomantic and Feruchemical powers.
There is still a lot that we do not know like Nicrosil Compounding, if the user needs to deprive himself of his powers or part of them, or how it is possible to get rid of all his Identity to make medallions. Brandon is being very evasive about not spoiling the surprise (and also not ending up giving information that ends up changing in the final product). But on a general basis, this is it.

Quotes:

Your Investiture is keyed to your soul—indeed, it might be a part of your soul, much as your blood is a part of your body.”

“So if a person could store their Identity,” Marasi said, “as Waxillium does with his weight…”

“They’d be without it for a time,” VenDell said. “A blank slate, so to speak.”

“So they could use anyone’s metalmind?” Marasi asked.

“Possibly,” VenDell said.
-

“Some have been experimenting with your idea,” VenDell said, “and early results are promising. However, having a Feruchemist who can use anyone’s metalminds is intriguing, but not particularly life-changing. Our society is strewn with individuals who have extraordinary abilities—this would simply be one more variety. No, what interests me is the opposite, Miss Colms. What if a Feruchemist were to divest himself of all Identity, then fill another metalmind with an attribute. Say, strength. What would it do?”

“Create an unkeyed metalmind?” Marasi asked. “One that another Feruchemist could access?”

“Possibly,” VenDell said. “Or is there another possibility? Most people living right now have at least some Feruchemist blood in them. Could it be that such a metalmind as I describe, one that is keyed to no single individual, might be usable by anyone?”
-

 “Investiture—the innate ability to burn metals or tap metalminds—is also one of the things Feruchemy can store. Lord Waxillium … these are arts we are only beginning to comprehend. But the secrets they contain could change the world.

“In the ancient days, the Last Emperor discovered a metal that transformed him into a Mistborn. A metal anyone could burn, it is said. This whispers of a hidden possibility, something lesser, but still incredible. What if one could somehow manipulate Identity and Investiture to create a set of bracers which imparted Feruchemical or Allomantic ability upon the person wearing them? One could make any person a Mistborn, or a Feruchemist, or both at once.”

 

Edited by Raphaborn
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Posted (edited)

I have the same problem. I am driven nuts by the secrets of feruchemical nicrosil. 90 percent of the time I am told “we really don’t know” but from what I have gathered, it does this;

 It stores your personal spiderweb basically. Every person within the cosmere has a spiritual spiderweb , which is what allows you to tap into a shard’s power to use your ability. Nicrosil is essentially giving a bit of that ability to whomever taps it, allowing them to use the metal that the medallion is melded with. You are basically giving a bit of your magical* capabilities to others. I assume you need to have an unkeyed nicrosilmind to make it work, but that’s the basic gist of it. (Like what the pal above me just mentioned)

I was lead off trail by the  coppermind and the allomancy chart, where one said it stored investiture and the other said it stored your ability to use your abilities. 

Now there are some unexpected things, like what the heck exisors are, but hopefully this will be explained in wax and Wayne 4, which is hopefully coming out in a year or two. 

Now nicrosilminds could be useful for other places within the cosmere, such as

Warbreaker stuff (spoilers)

Spoiler

Storing breaths, which cling to your spiderweb happily, but would be overall useless for this purpose, because you can give breath to any object through sad spells. This would only be useful for compounders.

Sel stuff (spoilersish)

Spoiler

Elantrans (maybe) 

White sand (spoilersish)

Spoiler

The strength of your sand mastery (maybe)

 

Hopes this helps you on your quest to find answers to the cosmere’s mysteries!

Edited by Koloss17
Copying some points already mentioned
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Posted (edited)

33 minutes ago, Koloss17 said:

Warbreaker stuff (spoilers)

  Hide contents

Storing breaths, which cling to your spiderweb happily, but would be overall useless for this purpose, because you can give breath to any object through sad spells. This would only be useful for compounders.

I don't know if this would work. Breath is almost entirely physical Realm and not Spiritual. Nicrisol seems to be mostly/entirely SR stuff

 

Questioner

With spikes, would you be able to actually transfer Breaths, when they get to the other planets?

Brandon Sanderson

So spikes rip off pieces of the soul and so Breaths are not going to be part of the soul. You could maybe get a divine Breath but I haven't really decided on regular Breaths, they're kind of stuck there in the Physical Realm which is not a thing that spikes are dealing with. Divine Breath, potentially, because that's something that's actually melding onto your soul. But, you know, when you're using the Breaths they reach through to the Spiritual Realm so, maybe if you got it while the Breaths were kinetic, right, while you're using them, then you might be able to rip them off. I'm not a hundred percent certain on that one.

Bystander

There's still things to decide upon.

Brandon Sanderson

Yeah there's still things, like I have to kind of see. My instinct says no right now. But, you know, how they interact is not something that I have-- Yeah.

Shadows of Self London UK signing (Oct. 19, 2015)

Edited by Eternal Khol
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*Clears throat.*

Theory time.

Medallions are NOT normal F-Nicrosil. Nor are they normal Unkeyed F-Nicrosil.

Medallions' F-Nicrosil contains an unkeyed hemalurgic charge for the other metal in the medallion. This is part of why making a multi-metal medallion is so rusting difficult.

The (theoretical) process for creating a Medallion/Unsealed Metalmind:

1. Give a ferring of the desired metal F-Aluminum via... any method, really, but probably a spike.

2. Have them store Identity while you spike their feruchemy out.

3. Spike someone who has F-Nicrosil (possibly with another spike) with the unkeyed spike.

4. Also spike them with F-Aluminum.

5. Have them store their Identity and then store the Unkeyed Spike charge in the Nicrosil designed to be in the Medallion.

6. (optional for stuff other than F-Iron) Fill the second metal with Unkeyed charge.

7. Complete! You now have a working Unsealed Metalmind.

The reason this is why I think this could be the process is that i believe that the Unkeyed Hemalurgic charge expects itself to be inside a spike, and because there's no Identity conflict, when it makes contact with someone else's spiritweb (and they understand that the Nicrosil contains the power to grant Feruchemy), the fragment of Unkeyed Spiritweb will latch onto the Spiritweb of the wearer, like a pretend spike. This is then what allows the wearer to tap the Unkeyed metalmind inside the Medallion.

[Stormlight Spoiler]

Spoiler

It's almost like a spren bond, granting a power to the thing it Connects to. In fact, an F-Iron medallion could be likened to the Luckspren that help Skyeels fly. Or the ones that bond with Chasmfiends so that they don't collapse because Square-Cube Law.

Makes me wonder if you could Unkey and store a whole Spiritweb in Unkeyed Nicrosil... Would probably have to be a rusting huge nicrosilmind though. ...Wonder if that'll have applications for spiritual immortality in Era 4...

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29 minutes ago, Halyo_Alex said:

Makes me wonder if you could Unkey and store a whole Spiritweb in Unkeyed Nicrosil... Would probably have to be a rusting huge nicrosilmind though. ...Wonder if that'll have applications for spiritual immortality in Era 4...

this sounds too much like a horcrux from Harry Potter

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48 minutes ago, Eternal Khol said:

this sounds too much like a horcrux from Harry Potter

I was thinking like the holograms from Red Dwarf actually. Horcruxes are pieces of soul, not one whole person's soul. :P

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9 minutes ago, Halyo_Alex said:

I was thinking like the holograms from Red Dwarf actually. Horcruxes are pieces of soul, not one whole person's soul. :P

Ahh.... Touche

If you were to store an entire spiritweb, the objects cognitive and physical presence would most likely disappear entirely. You'd probably have to "make" new ones for the spiritweb you have stored

On a side note,

I wonder if you could bind a Cognitive Shadow to an object so as to circumvent the problem of CS's not being able to leave their planet.  

They'd be bound to the object instead of the Planet or whatever

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1 hour ago, Eternal Khol said:

Ahh.... Touche

If you were to store an entire spiritweb, the objects cognitive and physical presence would most likely disappear entirely. You'd probably have to "make" new ones for the spiritweb you have stored

yeah, but of course that raises the question of what happens to a person when you do that, is that like a form of stasis?

1 hour ago, Eternal Khol said:

On a side note,

I wonder if you could bind a Cognitive Shadow to an object so as to circumvent the problem of CS's not being able to leave their planet.  

They'd be bound to the object instead of the Planet or whatever

Hmm. Sounds like it would be possible with Connection manipulation. Feruchemy or Hemalurgy, possibly.

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58 minutes ago, Halyo_Alex said:

yeah, but of course that raises the question of what happens to a person when you do that, is that like a form of stasis?

For all intents and purposes they'd be dead. Deader than dead.

A spiritweb, cognitive and physical aspect are all intertwined.

If you take away two thirds of the equation, what are you left with?

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14 hours ago, Eternal Khol said:

For all intents and purposes they'd be dead. Deader than dead.

Except you could maybe, with the right knowledge, bring them back.

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