Bondsmith Oaths

[BasementDwellingRadiant]

My apologies for this quick and possibly unorganized post. I'm half-asleep and should really be going to bed. But... well. Thinking. I have no evidence for this, and it is less a theory than a question and stray thought that has been haunting my mind for a few days now: Are the Bondsmiths' Oaths more individualized than the other orders'? We've seen some level of similarity between knights of other orders. In the climax of book one, Syl speaks to Kaladin about him knowing the words. Kaladin and Teft have somewhat similar second oaths. Pattern has outright told Shallan what structure the Lightweavers' truths take. But, such a topic is never broached with Dalinar. The Stormfather has never implied anything about the oaths of the Bondsmiths. He's never said anything like "You know the words," at least as far as I can remember. And, when he speaks, they seem to almost come out of nowhere. They are fitting, mind you. I am not saying "oh his oaths are trash because they aren't ever foreshadowed" or anything like that. What I mean to say is that Dalinar seems to decide upon his own Oaths. Could all Bondsmiths be like this?

 

Or, could it vary based upon which "god spren" the Bondsmith has bonded?

 

I apologize if this topic has been discussed before. But, in my half-asleep state I wanted to know what you all thought of the possibility.

 

Thoughts?

Edited February 21, 2020 by BasementDwellingRadiant

[Elsecaller_17.5]

I agree. I suspect all bondsmith oaths will be very variable depending on both the spren and the radients experience. We probably won't actually know though until/if we see another Bondsmith.

[Quantus]

Im of two minds on this.  On the one hand the three Godspren are by all accounts wildly different, and it would make all kinds of sense for their Oaths to be similarly Unique.  On the Other Hand they are building/proving the same general Bond and Surges, so by that logic they should probably follow a common theme.  We know form the other Orders we've seen that Oaths can sometimes be wildly individualized (Lightweaver Truths being the most, but the Skybreakers Crusade Ideal etc are equally personal).  I tend to suspect it will fall somewhere in the middle, with each Godspren having a very different Perspective on the same general theme, which will likely only make sense in retrospect.   

[Karger]

I think you will generally get dissimilar wordings.  IE Stormfather "I will bring unity instead of division" vs Sibiling "I will bring order from the chaos of mankind" are both still about creating ways in which political power can be effectively expressed but sound different thematically.

[jamesbondsmith]

On 2/22/2020 at 0:43 AM, Karger said:

I think you will generally get dissimilar wordings.  IE Stormfather "I will bring unity instead of division" vs Sibiling "I will bring order from the chaos of mankind" are both still about creating ways in which political power can be effectively expressed but sound different thematically.

Perhaps the Nightwatcher's oaths will be something like 'I will foster growth in all things', like growing a society instead of letting it stagnate or go backwards.

I like the idea of each 'godspren' having oaths that tie into their associated Shard, but I'm not sure if uniting people is inherently honourable. Taking responsibility for your actions definitely seems honourable, though.

I feel like the general perception is that the Sibling is either related to Odium or a mix of Cultivation and Honor, and your idea works better for the latter. Using the dictionary definition of Odium as hatred based on someone's actions, perhaps an Odium Bondsmith oath might be 'I will create and enact just laws for all'. I know this seems very Skybreaker-ish, but I was thinking more along the lines of the legislative, lawmaking side of law (or perhaps the judicial, trial judge side, but that's a little more Skybreaker). The idea of bring order out of chaos might work here too. It might also explain Nale's fanatic devotion to Ishar's command to kill Radiants, if Skybreakers follow laws set down by Bondsmiths.

Uniting disparate people into a society, then making laws for that society and growing them into a prosperous culture does seem to tie into the 'guiding' nature of Bondsmiths.

[Karger]

8 hours ago, jamesbondsmith said:

Perhaps the Nightwatcher's oaths will be something like 'I will foster growth in all things', like growing a society instead of letting it stagnate or go backwards.

Or just "I will alter the way that humans interact for the good of the whole."

[+asmodeus]

I tend to think that Dalinar's Oaths are following a general theme of Order specific Oaths, and the differences between the Oaths of any two Bondsmiths, regardless of what specific spren they bond, will be similar in nature to the differences between the Oaths of Kaladin and Teft. 

One of the things that's been... bugging me, for a while, is how polar Dalinar's Oaths can be interpreted to be, between Honor and Cultivation. We know three of his Oaths -

1. Life before Death, Strength before Weakness, Journey before Destination.

2. I will unite instead of divide. I will bring men together.

and 3. If I must fall, I will rise each time a better man.

Now, one could think of the second being extremely Honor-like, in establishing and bringing people together under one set of social rules, and the third to be extremely Cultivation-y, in the sense that given the opportunity, I will cultivate myself.

This is not a strict divide however - one can just as easily argue that being better - or, trying to be better - is innately Honorable, even if it sounds Cultivating. Similarly, one could also argue that uniting people is one form of Cultivating society to be a little better.

In this case, both his Oaths so far can be thought of as either stemming from Honor, Cultivation, or a combination of the two without too much effort. In contrast to, for example, the Edgedancer Oaths, which feel very Cultivation-focused, or the Skybreaker Oaths, which feel very Honor-focused.

That being said, could Bondsmith Oaths be unique to each of their possible spren? I don't know. For this to be true, Dalinar's Oaths would have to resonate with the living idea that is the Stormfather (and Highstorms), and I don't think they do. There is nothing in Dalinar's Oaths that feels particularly Storms-like, unless you argue that the Highstorms make people huddle together for shelter and that the Storms throw people around, teaching them to stand back up every time that happens. Meh.

And behind all this, there is the fact that all Oaths are technically of Honor, because regardless of the content of the Oath, taking/speaking one is you choosing to be bound by rules that you didn't have to be bound by - an inherently Honorable action.

[sylbladio]

On 2/21/2020 at 3:54 PM, BasementDwellingRadiant said:

What I mean to say is that Dalinar seems to decide upon his own Oaths. Could all Bondsmiths be like this?

I think the oaths have the same essence, but the words change in different Radiants. I'm pretty sure being a Bondsmith means becoming a better person over time. So the spren probably choose similar people.

[Hyarmenatan]

If Gavilar was supposed to bond the Stormfather how could his oaths look like? I guess second ideal could stay the same, Gavilar also wanted to achieve unity, through different means than Dalinar, but to a similar end.

Also, do we have any confirmation that Stormfather was going to bond Gavilar? When SF mentions what Honor told him to do, he lists visions and bonding, but does not imply this should be the same person.

 

[Callsign Radiant]

I'm not sure that the words necessarily come from nowhere. Just because the Stormfather doesn't say anything about Dalinar knowing the words, doesn't mean he doesn't or that there aren't particular words or sentiments that are needed. It just means that the Stormfather didn't mention it. Spren all have different personalities and interact differently with their radiant. The Stormfather is very different from Syl.

About the ideals being more varied? It's certainly possible considering how different Honor and Cultivation are. On the other hand, from what I remember, bondsmiths are always the leaders of the radiants. They also have the same surges. I think it is also possible that the theme of the ideals is the same for all bondsmiths but as with other orders there is variation in the wording. Lightweavers probably still have the most varied ideals.