MasterheartsXIII

Theory regarding the flashback at the end of Bands (Spoilers)

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This is a theory as to how Kelsier was walking around in the flashback at the end of Bands of Mourning.

 

I believe he's a mistwraith.

I stumbled upon this theory when I read the following on the Coppermind regarding mistwraiths:

"A single Hemalurgic spike is enough to staple a Cognitive Shadow to a mistwraith, though whether this has happened in the past is unknown."

One could definitely argue that Kelsier is a cognitive shadow of sorts (albeit with more sentience than most) in Secret History. We also know that he is somehow missing an eye during the events of era 2. My guess is that he stapled himself to a mistwraith and had it assume the form of himself, and since he isn't a kandra, he doesn't need gifts to stay sane. He moved the one spike to his eye to both emulate marsh, and to give himself Steelsight.

Thoughts? Comments? Has this theory been created before or did I find a new one?

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43 minutes ago, MasterheartsXIII said:

This is a theory as to how Kelsier was walking around in the flashback at the end of Bands of Mourning.

 

I believe he's a mistwraith.

I stumbled upon this theory when I read the following on the Coppermind regarding mistwraiths:

"A single Hemalurgic spike is enough to staple a Cognitive Shadow to a mistwraith, though whether this has happened in the past is unknown."

One could definitely argue that Kelsier is a cognitive shadow of sorts (albeit with more sentience than most) in Secret History. We also know that he is somehow missing an eye during the events of era 2. My guess is that he stapled himself to a mistwraith and had it assume the form of himself, and since he isn't a kandra, he doesn't need gifts to stay sane. He moved the one spike to his eye to both emulate marsh, and to give himself Steelsight.

Thoughts? Comments? Has this theory been created before or did I find a new one?

It is a theory I have seen before. That doesn't mean there is anything wrong with you coming to the same conclusion. There is quite a bit to support it, but it has not been confirmed yet. I wish you luck with your theory!

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This is somewhat relevant.

Quote
Arcanum Unbounded release party (Nov. 22, 2016)
#1 Share Copy
 
Play/Pause
 

Questioner

In Bands of Mourning, we learned that the Sovereign, who they confused as being the Lord Ruler, came after the Catacendre. [He] was their god, was their king and god. And then Kelsier looking for a string. Is the spike somehow connecting Kelsier's soul to Spook's body.

Brandon Sanderson

No, good question. It is connecting his soul with his body, his current body, but it is not Spook's body. That's a great theory.

 

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I kinda feel like this has to be what's going on- Like where else could he have gotten a body that looks just like his old one, all the way down to the scars?

But I also feel like getting the Mistwraith body to match his old one exactly is something that's gonna take a bit more effort than just stapling his soul to it. Finding bones that work right is probably gonna be an issue, for one thing. 

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Wob that may support this theory

Quote

Brandon Sanderson

Kelsier's Bones

I don't know if I mentioned it previously in the annotations, but I originally had TenSoon leave Kelsier's bones in Luthadel, burying them again following his appearance to Wellen and the other guard. My alpha readers, however, were very disappointed in this. They saw Kelsier's bones as a very important artifact, and they wanted to see more from them. So, I added the scene where the people in the warehouse saw TenSoon and he gave them advice, then I had him bring the bones with him.

However, I wasn't sure what to do with them. I'd already written the book at this point, and was just revising. I realized there wouldn't be another chance to make use of the bones. But I figured the readers were right, and TenSoon should bring them just in case.

Where the bones are at the end of the book is something of a mystery. They made it back to the kandra Homeland, I'll say that. However, what happened to them then . . . well, you will have to see.

The Hero of Ages Annotations (Feb. 9, 2010)

 

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@MasterheartsXIII I agree with this theory and I'm impressed you came to independently (I didn't). And @Debarrathat is a golden WoB! Reputations all around!

I more interested in how he got Feurchemy. Personally I believe a lerasium spike had something to do with it.

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14 hours ago, Elsecaller_17.5 said:

I more interested in how he got Feurchemy. Personally I believe a lerasium spike had something to do with it.

I personally think he replicated the original feurchemy method since there was no more lerasium and I do not think Harmony wanted to make more.

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2 hours ago, Karger said:

I personally think he replicated the original feurchemy method since there was no more lerasium and I do not think Harmony wanted to make more.

But we don't know there's no more lerasium (unless I've missed a WoB). Do we know what the original method was? Wouldn't it just be being born with it?

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57 minutes ago, Elsecaller_17.5 said:

But we don't know there's no more lerasium (unless I've missed a WoB). Do we know what the original method was? Wouldn't it just be being born with it?

Vin gave Elend the last bead and unless Harmony decided to make more (which he could) I don't see where more would come from.  We do not know what the original method was.  There is an old WoB that said it was originally a "gift" to the Teris people and another that said during Hoid's cameo he was beaten up because he "went too far" while trying to discover it.

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22 hours ago, Gilphon said:

But I also feel like getting the Mistwraith body to match his old one exactly is something that's gonna take a bit more effort than just stapling his soul to it. Finding bones that work right is probably gonna be an issue, for one thing. 

Not really, his Spiritual template is what determines how he's 'supposed' to look so once he gets a body, that's going to start coming into play. We see something similar with another sort of Cognitive Shadow in Stormlight Archive. The scars are explained as Kelsier's Cognitive self-image; since having the scars from Hathsin is such a key part of who Kelsier is, he'll have them in a new body even if various forms of magical healing were applied to him.

Now, where the fleshy bits all come from if he's not using a Mistwraith is uncertain but given that Investiture is another state of matter, provide him enough of it when stapling his soul to the body and F-Gold or some other healing power should repair the body for him. Something similar is at play in Warbreaker with the Returned.

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On 2/20/2020 at 2:30 PM, Weltall said:

Not really, his Spiritual template is what determines how he's 'supposed' to look so once he gets a body, that's going to start coming into play. We see something similar with another sort of Cognitive Shadow in Stormlight Archive. The scars are explained as Kelsier's Cognitive self-image; since having the scars from Hathsin is such a key part of who Kelsier is, he'll have them in a new body even if various forms of magical healing were applied to him.

Now, where the fleshy bits all come from if he's not using a Mistwraith is uncertain but given that Investiture is another state of matter, provide him enough of it when stapling his soul to the body and F-Gold or some other healing power should repair the body for him. Something similar is at play in Warbreaker with the Returned.

Would he have to appropriate a Full Fereuchemist's body, in that case?

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I wonder if burn Ettmetal makes you into a a Feruchemist, but only a Mistborn can burn it?

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Posted (edited)

1 hour ago, SwordNimiForPresident said:

I wonder if burn Ettmetal makes you into a a Feruchemist, but only a Mistborn can burn it?

While it isn't Allomantically inert, I doubt even a Mistborn could burn it under normal circumstances. Your saliva would make it (and presumably the Mistborn) explode. They wouldn't be able to swallow it to burn it...

Relevant WOBS:

Quote

 

Silasary

If someone is a full Mistborn and is able to use Feruchemical gold... can they safely burn harmonium?

Brandon Sanderson

Oh, okay. This is theoretically possible. 

Silasary

Would it have an effect?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes. It would do something.

Silasary

And I'm going to hopefully ask what that is.

Brandon Sanderson

*gives a RAFO card* You've earned their card.

Emerald City Comic Con 2018 (March 1, 2018)

 

 

Quote

 

Mason Wheeler

Harmonium is ettmetal... Its chemicals properties are sort of analogous to cesium. It explodes in contact with water. People are made out of water. You try to spike someone, you try to swallow it, you try to wear it as jewelry, it will not end well. Why in the world would he pick something so inharmonious?

Brandon Sanderson

He didn't pick it. It's unstable because of the two halves of him not meshing well.

Oathbringer release party (Nov. 13, 2017)

 

 

Edited by The Sovereign
God Beyond I love the Arcanum.
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On 2/19/2020 at 7:53 PM, Elsecaller_17.5 said:

@MasterheartsXIII I agree with this theory and I'm impressed you came to independently (I didn't). And @Debarrathat is a golden WoB! Reputations all around!

I more interested in how he got Feurchemy. Personally I believe a lerasium spike had something to do with it.

I would have assumed Harmony was just like *Ahem* (bad impressions follow) "hey!" "Cognitive Shadow Kelisier, Old master, you want some feruchemy?" and Kelisier was like "Sure!" 

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