TheWadehart

theory
Specuating on Oathgate Locations (and other stuff)

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OK, I dusted off an old map that speculated on the location of the Aimia and Shinovar OGs, because I started thinking about the fortress at the center of the Purelake, and I remembered that one of the Oathgate radials I drew, crossed through the center of the Purelake.  And then of course I remembered Feverstone keep, that we know almost nothing about other than it is close to RallElorim and is on a plain. I of course wondered could it be a Coastal Plain in the rain shadow of the mountains? And then I wondered is it just pure coincidence that one of the radials just happens to cross through the Horneater Peaks and the Cultivation shardpools?  The same radial, BTW, that Kholinar (the first gate captured) is on?  

So thinking about those two fortresses, I started thinking, yeah the Oathgates are cool and allow all the good little people move around, but these gates were built for WAR as well.  And gates in the middle of cities are not very defensible, sure they can be locked and all, but come on?! If you were building a vast infrastructure like this wouldn't you want some safeguards?  So I wondered, maybe there is a reason that the Purelake fortress is on a radial. And maybe Feverstone Keep as well. Maybe there are other fortresses scattered around Roshar, and they have oathgate rooms at their centers!

Ok by that point the speculation train was running on full steam.  Jumping tracks. Whoo boy. Urithiru. The middle of all of these Oathgates.  A city tower. An Arcology.  Cities need power to run.   City wide heat, water, sewage, air circulation stormlight for quickly growing crops etc… Not to mention possibly having some sort of defensive array, or intra-tower teleportation pads or remote viewing screens, Mickey mouse alarm clocks. Lots of power. But all Urithiru has is a battery.  A big honkin battery maybe, but just a battery. Ok people say that the Sibling is supposed to make it run, but show me a single location where Spren empowered a single thing? Yes they direct function, but they don't provide the actual power for it. Stormlight does. So just how the heck is that pretty battery filled? Well,  we will just lower this itty bitty cage of gemstones down to the storm… Nahh. Well, the people using the Oathgates give extra stormlight… What? How? How is it collected and transported to the battery? OK, what about Bondsmiths? Just open a perpendicularity near the battery and bam! Full power baby! Ummm, first we don't know if all Bondsmiths could do that, or for that matter if any of them could, until Dalinar came along. It's been RAFO'd.  Second, do you really want to be opening a GATEWAY to the Cognitive and Spiritual realms at the heart of your fortress city?  That's just begging for some sort of desperation attack. Hmmmm. If only we had some way of collecting Stormlight from across all of Roshar… Hey gancho, we have this pretty array of gateways all around Roshar, why do they have to do just ONE thing?  Why do the Oathgates have TWO spren? One of them certainly looks like a Giant Inkspren, but does that other one look like a giant bronze spren to you? Lets face it, a giant spren of the Elsecallers should be more than enough for shuffling stuff around through preprogrammed fabrials. So what is the white one's function? We know it's sentient, but it doesn't match up to any other higher spren that we've seen on camera. Maybe it's there for an entirely different reason, maybe it's there to funnel stormlight back through the network to provide power to the city?!  So, you ask, why isn't the battery full? After all, it's been sitting there doing nothing for millennia. Well maybe the gates need to be unlocked. What about the Stormseat gate, it's unlocked now? Maybe it needs to be exposed and not covered in crem. What about the Thaylin gate? Bahh! I need a drink.

Roshar Speculated Oathgate Locations.jpg

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That is quite a rant let us take it one part at a time.  First even if Bondsmiths can't open a perpendicularity they can still use an overcharge ability.  Secondly the sibiling themselves might have access to some kind of power the same way the stormfather does.  Thirdly why not fill it manually one gemstone at a time?

1 hour ago, TheWadehart said:

one's function? We know it's sentient, but it doesn't match up to any other higher spren that we've seen on camera

Yes we have.  Lightspren.

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I love this map, and the way you’ve marked it up.
 

I have wondered about the second spren. The description in Oathbringer made it seem very similar to the Inkspren. Almost like a white version of it.

“One mother-of-pearl, the other black with a variegated oily shimmer.”

Your guess is as good as mine.

What jumped out at me is that Urithiru doesn’t fall exactly at the convergence. Either the map isn’t 100% accurate, or that’s an interesting occurrence 

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I love this map, and the way you’ve marked it up.
 

I have wondered about the second spren. The description in Oathbringer made it seem very similar to the Inkspren. Almost like a white version of it.

“One mother-of-pearl, the other black with a variegated oily shimmer.”

Your guess is as good as mine.

What jumped out at me is that Urithiru doesn’t fall exactly at the convergence. Either the map isn’t 100% accurate, or that’s an interesting occurrence 

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2 hours ago, Karger said:

That is quite a rant let us take it one part at a time. 

First of all Fanboy fanatics do not rant, no we definitely and most assuredly do not!  We expound! Yes! We definitely expound, at great length, mind you.

2 hours ago, Karger said:

First even if Bondsmiths can't open a perpendicularity they can still use an overcharge ability. 

Reading that last chapter in OB, I'm pretty sure that the overcharge is done by opening the perpendicularity.

2 hours ago, Karger said:

Secondly the sibiling themselves might have access to some kind of power the same way the stormfather does. 

Possibly, but I'm none to sanguine about it.  Stormfather was something of a one-off as Tanavast gave it his proxy when he died. So to speak.

2 hours ago, Karger said:

Thirdly why not fill it manually one gemstone at a time?

Because as I said, that is one big battery, supplying the needs of a city, a whole entire city! One gem at a time wouldn't make a millionth of a dent in the energy needs.  In fact when they tried to infuse stormlight into it it had no visible effect.  I believe that it was siphoned away so quickly into the 'wiring/strata' of the city it didn't even glimmer!

2 hours ago, Karger said:

Yes we have.  Lightspren.

I really don't think so.  See that is the thing that was bothering me.  The black one does more or less match the description of an Inkspren, but the white one doesn't look anything like a Reacher/Lightspren.

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8 minutes ago, TheWadehart said:

First of all Fanboy fanatics do not rant, no we definitely and most assuredly do not!  We expound! Yes! We definitely expound, at great length, mind you.

I agree wholeheartedly. 

9 minutes ago, TheWadehart said:

Reading that last chapter in OB, I'm pretty sure that the overcharge is done by opening the perpendicularity.

It is not.  It is a separate ability.  I will post WoB when I find it if you like.

11 minutes ago, TheWadehart said:

Possibly, but I'm none to sanguine about it.  Stormfather was something of a one-off as Tanavast gave it his proxy when he died. So to speak.

Even before then the Stormfather distributed stormlight.  In fact he has done so since before the shattering.

12 minutes ago, TheWadehart said:

Because as I said, that is one big battery, supplying the needs of a city, a whole entire city! One gem at a time wouldn't make a millionth of a dent in the energy needs

Why not several hundred gems at a time?  Also the city is still partly on somehow.  Some things like the increased pressure remain functional.

13 minutes ago, TheWadehart said:

In fact when they tried to infuse stormlight into it it had no visible effect.  I believe that it was siphoned away so quickly into the 'wiring/strata' of the city it didn't even glimmer!

Pretty sure it just did not go in.  They would have noticed if it drained and did nothing.  They would likely have thought that "hm big city.  It must need more stormlight."

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Maybe there wasn't enough power applied to the system to initiate the start up sequence or to override protect mode. I tend to like the idea of an array that funnels massive amounts of power into the Oathgate system.  Makes as much sense as anything else being proposed.  My only issue with this is with the opening of other Oathgates we should have seen some indications of increased functionality in Urithiru. There are currently 3 open Oathgates, Jah Kaved, Stormseat and Thaylen City.  That should have jarred at least a little more functionality from our capitol city. If it takes all ten then the Radiants are screwed,  but the purpose of an array is so that no single node can doom the entire system. 

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As an engineer, I like this theory.   But I do think if it is true, the designers of Urithiru would have thought forward enough to have the gates function as an array especially with a hot spare or two.   In WAR, you always want spare parts.  If a gate were to be damaged or in need of maintenance then you would not want to have whole system go dark.

There could have been more to the radiants “ locking “ the gates long ago ... they may have executed a full shutdown of all systems to prevent some greater tragedy.   The new occupants of Urithiru just need to learn the procedure to start it up... even if it runs in degraded mode.

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One line crossing both Shinovar and Aimia (is that Akinah?) then on the other side both Vedenar and Narak, with two other lines (Kurth & Rall Elorim) not connecting to other Oathgates?

Edited by Dreamer
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This is a good theory. I think the 10 Oathgates mostly are in the 10 Dawncities. Feverstone keep is important for some reason though, could be an Oathgate there. 

15 hours ago, Karger said:

It is not.  It is a separate ability.  I will post WoB when I find it if you like.

Brandon later clarified that the WoB was unintentionally misleading, but I think the part you are referencing is correct.  I don't think any Bondsmith pre-honor's death could create/summon a perpendicularity that recharged all the nearby spheres.

I agree that a Bondsmith could do what Dalinar did to activate the Oathgate when he was freaking out late in OB, by pulling something (part of the Stormfather?) from another realm and jamming it into the Oathgate as a substitute for a sword. 

 
Quote

  16 hours ago, Karger said:

Thirdly why not fill it manually one gemstone at a time?

 

Didn't they try it (a group of radiants directed by Navani) and it didn't work? No bondsmiths tried it though.  

 

 
Quote

 

17 hours ago, Karger said:

Secondly the sibiling themselves might have access to some kind of power the same way the stormfather does.

 

 

 

Something along this line. Urithiru was constructed specifically to be paired with the Sibling. The Sibling's withdrawal directly led to the KR abandoning Urithiru, it was too hard to maintain without the Sibling. Honor adopted the Stormfather, Cultivation adopted the Nightmother, the Sibling may be a combo of the two Shards and a Sibling to both.

The Knights Radiant 's spren are all of Cultivation and/or Honor, Urithiru was built for the Knight's Radiant, it makes thematic sense that the Sibling who is a mix of both is the bondsmith spren that makes the KR's tower function. 

Overcharge WoB and correction spoilered for length.:

Quote

 

Questioner

Dalinar Ascends, right? Like, right then, there.

Brandon Sanderson

I have RAFO'd that. Whether he is Ascending or not is a RAFO.

Questioner

Okay, because I know he kind of mentions from that, I don't know how to say his name but the older guy who has the Diagram--

Brandon Sanderson

Taravangian, yeah. Whether that deserves to be a capital "A" or not is a matter of argument. It can be disputed.

Questioner

I guess my main question would just be Dalinar's now able to pull Stormlight and give it to people now.

Brandon Sanderson

He definitely can. That is a Bondsmith power, so.

Questioner

That is a Bondsmith power, okay.

Brandon Sanderson

That is specifically a Bondsmith power.

Questioner

Because my roommate was saying well, the Stormfather was surprised he could do that or was the Stormfather surprised that he was able to bridge--

Brandon Sanderson

He was surprised by what was happening to Dalinar as a whole.

Questioner

Oh okay, that's what I thought because I was like, because I felt like the Stormlight, that power would be a Bondsmith power.

Brandon Sanderson

Let's say that the Stormfather and Odium were seeing something in Dalinar that, perhaps, the average person watching even who is knowledgeable about Surges would not completely understand... But he will be able to use that power and Bondsmiths in the past have used that same power.

Footnote: Brandon clarified that he might have been unintentionally misleading in his answers to this question during his Stormlight 4 Update 1.
Idaho Falls signing (Dec. 29, 2018)

 

 

Quote

I'll leave you with a random tidbit to theorize about. I'm pretty sure that at my signing last week in Idaho Falls, I was unintentionally misleading about some of the things I said about Dalinar's powers (regarding infusing of spheres.) I was trying to talk around spoilers for book four... 

https://www.reddit.com/r/Stormlight_Archive/comments/absjnj/stormlight_book_four_update_1/

 

 

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17 minutes ago, Child of Hodor said:

Brandon later clarified that the WoB was unintentionally misleading, but I think the part you are referencing is correct.  I don't think any Bondsmith pre-honor's death could create/summon a perpendicularity that recharged all the nearby spheres.

It is not a perpendicularity that overcharges them.  We don't really know how it works but it is a specifically bondsmith ability assuming that WoB is still kind of correct and we have no reason to believe that the other two spren were different in this regaurd.

25 minutes ago, Child of Hodor said:

Didn't they try it (a group of radiants directed by Navani) and it didn't work? No bondsmiths tried it though.  

Just Renarin.

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I could be wrong but doesn't Kharbaranth have an Oathgate.

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9 hours ago, Child of Hodor said:

Something along this line. Urithiru was constructed specifically to be paired with the Sibling. The Sibling's withdrawal directly led to the KR abandoning Urithiru, it was too hard to maintain without the Sibling. Honor adopted the Stormfather, Cultivation adopted the Nightmother, the Sibling may be a combo of the two Shards and a Sibling to both.

The Knights Radiant 's spren are all of Cultivation and/or Honor, Urithiru was built for the Knight's Radiant, it makes thematic sense that the Sibling who is a mix of both is the bondsmith spren that makes the KR's tower function. 

The Eila Stele references the Singers' gods "of spren, stone, and wind." This is widely believed to reference the Nightwatcher, the Sibling, and the Stormfather respectively. I'm not sure if either Honor or Cultivation took any ownership over the Sibling as they did with the Stormfather and the Nightwatcher. Random speculation here; it could be that the Sibling was more connected to Cultivation and needs her investiture to run the city, not Stormlight. Or possibly a combination of both Stormlight and Cultivation's equivalent.  

Edited by Harrycrapper
Typo
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2 hours ago, Booknerd said:

I could be wrong but doesn't Kharbaranth have an Oathgate.

Taravangian and Co traveled to Jah Keved that was having a Civil War. His humanitarian efforts resulted in them naming him as King. Jah Keved has an oathgate and Taravangian was operating from there. Kharbranth itself does not have an oathgate. 

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On ‎2‎/‎17‎/‎2020 at 10:53 PM, Dreamer said:

One line crossing both Shinovar and Aimia (is that Akinah?) with two other lines (Kurth & Rall Elorim) not connecting to other Oathgates?

I believe those are just the "back ends" of two lines that cross the center.  As in if you follow them through the center, they reach oathgates.  

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On 2/18/2020 at 0:55 PM, Harrycrapper said:

The Eila Stele references the Singers' gods "of spren, stone, and wind." This is widely believed to reference the Nightwatcher, the Sibling, and the Stormfather respectively. 

God of stone, you say?  Could that potentially be related to the Shin's reverence of stone?

 

 

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On 2/18/2020 at 0:55 PM, Harrycrapper said:

The Eila Stele references the Singers' gods "of spren, stone, and wind." This is widely believed to reference the Nightwatcher, the Sibling, and the Stormfather respectively. ...

30 minutes ago, Irishlawyer said:

God of stone, you say?  Could that potentially be related to the Shin's reverence of stone?

So glad I checked out this thread 'cos these are I've been thinking the same things. The Singer wind god must be the Stormfather. I also thought that their stone god must be the Sibling, since that's who should be powering Urithuru, IIRC; and that's why I think we'll meet the Sibling in SA5 (Szeth's book) because the Stone Shamans are involved somehow. But their god of spren - - I'm not sure it is the Nightwatcher. Always another secret in the Cosmere!:ph34r:

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1 hour ago, Lump-wing said:

So glad I checked out this thread 'cos these are I've been thinking the same things. The Singer wind god must be the Stormfather. I also thought that their stone god must be the Sibling, since that's who should be powering Urithuru, IIRC; and that's why I think we'll meet the Sibling in SA5 (Szeth's book) because the Stone Shamans are involved somehow. But their god of spren - - I'm not sure it is the Nightwatcher. Always another secret in the Cosmere!:ph34r:

Yea, that Lift reading Brandon did recently seriously contradicted what everyone thought we knew about the Nightwatcher. Spoilers for unreleased RoW below:

Spoiler

I only listened to it once, but I'm pretty sure Wyndle outright said that Cultivation created the Nightwatcher and wanted to keep her unConnected from humans. That basically means she isn't one of the Singers ancient gods and that she isn't a Bondsmith Spren. Or at least it doesn't make sense to have her bonding a human if she doesn't want her to be Connected to them. Something is going on here and we don't know as much as we thought we knew. Typical Brandon. 

 

2 hours ago, Irishlawyer said:

God of stone, you say?  Could that potentially be related to the Shin's reverence of stone?

It's pretty likely. I think in WoR, Szeth was hanging around Urithiru and said that the stone there wasn't unholy to walk on for some reason. Probably won't get to know more about that until book 5 unless poor Szeth gets his book pushed back again. 

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@Harrycrapper thx for using the spoiler tags - I'm resisting the temptation to look (hates teh spoilerz, me does).

I actually have a guess re: the Singer god of spren, but I'm keeping it under wraps for now - we might not even find out till the "back 5" books.

November canNOT come soon enough!!

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8 hours ago, Harrycrapper said:

Yea, that Lift reading Brandon did recently seriously contradicted what everyone thought we knew about the Nightwatcher. Spoilers for unreleased RoW below:

Hey Harycrapper!  What reading are you referring to?  Do you have a link? :o

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4 hours ago, TheWadehart said:

Hey Harycrapper!  What reading are you referring to?  Do you have a link? :o

Here the text

Spoiler

“I have met the Nightwatcher,” Wyndle said. “She does not think the same way the rest of us do. Cultivation created her to be apart, to be separate from mankind, unconnected. She wanted to create a daughter whose shape and personality would not be influenced by the perceptions of humans. This makes the Nightwatcher less... well, human than a spren like myself. Still, I don’t believe her capable of lying. It isn’t something she could conceive of, I believe.”

 

Edited by Eternal Khol
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2 hours ago, Eternal Khol said:

Here the text

You might want to put that in a spoiler tag;-)

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15 hours ago, TheWadehart said:

Hey Harycrapper!  What reading are you referring to?  Do you have a link? :o

I haven't seen a transcribed version, it's a verbal reading Brandon did at a convention. There's a video on youtube on Brandon's channel, here's the link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wfd5zIA0SYU 

Again, it's from the unreleased book 4, so if you don't want even the slightest spoilers, don't watch that portion of the video.

I don't know precisely where the Stormlight reading starts, I think it's somewhere around the 40 minute mark. It's an entertaining video throughout though, so I recommend watching the whole thing.  

 

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