Gay Male Protagonist

[Honorless]

Not really, no. People different from the norm weren't and in many places still aren't really accepted into society. Things have gotten a bit better. But nowadays resentment against social movements is once again at an all-time high. And I do understand them. Many do raise pertinent points, the one I connect to the most is that men's rights movements are often maligned, trashed and vilified by extremist feminist movements. There's active violence at rallies and no one does anything (there's literally video evidence). Even saying the term is a joke or offensive to many people. Yes, I know the two social movements are often joined at the hip, I don't care since where I come from they betrayed us by fighting the short lived legalization of being gay (you do not get to decide whether our existence is right or wrong), legislation against single dads and the definition of rape from including male rape.

 

Being gay isn't an "alternative lifestyle" and it isn't a choice, I wouldn't have chosen to go through this much bs if I had the option. We suffer loss too as human beings, and yet some people literally fight to make us suffer even more loss. Be kind and understanding to us, that's all that's asked of you. Why are you offended by this?

I asked for a gay character once and scroll to see what happened. Did I get angry and say things? Yes. But am I really asking for that much here?

 

 

*sigh* also some explications for some of my previous posts.

Why did I bring out those two games in particular? Mass Effect and Elder Scrolls both explicitly promised to be inclusive in representing their LGBT fanbase. Romance is a big part of Mass Effect yet it's one particular fanbase which has the least number of options.

Elder Scrolls has a lot of nifty little things hidden in its massive mythos, one of the biggest LBGT positive things being a member of the Tribunal gods, Vivec being bi and intersex. Pelinal being gay could've been a big thing just like Vivec was. Yet it was cut specifically because of that. In a previous game, Morrowind, the player character is called the Nerevarine and they're a reincarnation of a Dunmer (Dark Elf) guy, but despite that they can now be a girl (or a cat, for that matter, or a cat girl). Pelinal is similar to that, a previous reincarnation of the player character in Oblivion, which was explicitly the reason why him being gay was removed from the storyline. Also, Players can choose their gender and sexuality during character creation and in Skyrim you can marry anyone regardless of gender, but if they choose to play a gay character, they'd be the only gay couple in the entire game. The idea here is that no one gets offended by the LGBT inclusion or disinclusion, I understand why but it's still quite sad. We exist, choosing to specifically build the option to ignore us like that is quite hurtful.

I criticized Max Gladstone by using his own quote regarding how there are no straight male protagonists in his novels because first of all, I have nothing against straight white guys, this topic is not an attack, it's me being angry for reasons I've already explained many times. I have read his books and statement is a bit of a technically true kind of statement. His books present race and sexual identity without the context of race and sexual identity, those things are just an aesthetic layer to his characters. Also his books aren't very good, he promises to showcase a world where magic and law are intertwined, gods make legally binding agreements and people exploit legal loopholes but all of the books just harp on about how novel an idea that is. There is no story to be found here. Every ending was a letdown by Deus Ex Machina.

I see some of you present statistics, all I can say is that wow, we are owed a whole lot of gay characters. *huffs* How does gay couples posting pictures of themselves on social media matter to this topic? Yes, straight couples are cute too, is this jealousy I detect? *sigh* Gay couples being more visible, more normalized,  that's why they upload so many pics and vids, straight couples already do that, don't make a big deal out of this, seriously.

 

I still don't like the rhetoric used in this topic. I've already raised these points before, but they've been somewhat lost in the hum-dum. I really don't think it's fair to make a comparison between the ostracization that gay people face trying to live their lives and how straight people might feel attacked when they see a gay person talking about these issues. These are real life issues that many people face which should be treated with compassion above being treated as politically sensitive issues that one has to dodge with wordplay, this isn't about giving offense, it's about being humane and compassionate

Edited January 24, 2021 by Honorless
Edited to make it easier to read than the original flow of thought style

[Toaster Retribution]

I apologize if my last comment seemed stupid, and I obviously agree that people who actively seeks to harm gays are criminal pieces of crem, with serious issues. My point was more aimed at that if you use the word homophobia too widely, and on too many people, it might start to lose its meaning somewhat. 

In addition, the word carries a very negative meaning, and I don’t believe in applying that to everyone who doesn’t view various HBTQ-issues the same way that you do, which is why I commented in the first place. Applying negative terms to people who thinks differently is a pet peeve of mine, and I’ll blame that on the fact that such behavior is quite common where I come from. I am fine with dropping this issue (regarding the defenitions and use of the term homophobia) now. Don’t want to cause a situation that might lead to the mods having to come and calm things down.

Stay safe folks!

[Chiberty]

I don't want to get involved in this discussion, but I thought I'd just throw this WoB out to those who are.

Quote

ladyknightradiant

Have we seen all four of the genders for the Parshendi?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes. 

ladyknightradiant

So it's more than just malen and femalen?

Brandon Sanderson

Well, male and female. So, basically, in my original notes I was trying to decide if I should call them [something else?] but they-- eventually we ended up-- It's basically, they have a male neuter and female neuter, and then a male and a female. So yes, there are four genders. [...] And, if you can't tell, the malen and femalen are both asexual, completely.

Footnote: Of note, but irrelevant to this entry, is that the questioner, ladyknightradiant, is the one who put together the Where's My Chull? children's book for Brandon. You can find the full illustrations here.
Words of Radiance Chicago signing (March 22, 2014)

 

[IcaroRibeiro]

17 hours ago, king of nowhere said:

 

Calm down.

the question did not specify any action taken. Are we talking about people who actively persecute gays? Or are we talking about people who simply do not like them?

Because the first kind of people, they are criminals, no arguments about it. and we do have laws against randomly assaulting people on the street, with hate being a further aggravating circumstance.

but the second kind of people, the ones who simply do not like gays but are not doing anything against them, they have every right to exhist. The key here is that just not liking somebody - not liking everyone who does a certain thing - is not a criminal offence, nor is it an offence of any kind. It actually falls under freedom of thought.

the thing is, we have hundreds and hundreds of different cultures on our world. most of them evolved for centuries mostly isolated from others. most of them evolved really conflicting values. but it was all fine, because membres of those cultures were unlikely to come across each other.

now we have cheap air travel and even cheaper and faster communication, so we are coming into contact with dozens and dozens of cultures that do stuff we don't like. And we disapprove of them. I myself could make a list of things i disapprove that would end up covering over 90% of the human race.

So, you can't really ask people to not disapprove of other cultures. it would require massive brainwashing and destruction of identities anyway. but if we are to avoid a worldwide war among supporters of different ideologies, the only way is to recognize that even if we don't like them, even if we don't like what they do, they have a right to keep exhisting as they are, as long as they recognize the same right to us.

this is the final goal of the "live and let live" phylosophy. It is not an hymn to apathia. Not an invitation to mind your own business - though there is some of that. No, it is an attempt to avoid conflict. It is an attempt to reconcile two people who disagree on a fundamental level, in that as long as they can agree to disagree and leave each other alone, there is no need for conflict.

I can see the criticism "but if we allow this way of thinking, we encourage homophobic people to turn their head when they see a gay being beaten". No, that's not how it works. Live and let live requires that people are willing to treat each other as equals. All those low-key acts of small discrimination are against the ideal. the ideal is that if you disapprove someone's culture you can be curt, cool, businesslike with them. you don't have to be their friend, to be nice. but you  are not supposed to turn a blind eye when injustice is done to them. Treating everyone with fairness is the least you can ask to anybody. It's also the most you can ask.

So, people who are mildly homophobic but who are not supporting active discrimination should not be attacked.

Finally, also consider that until some 50 years ago, homosexuality was regarded somewhat like paedophilia is regarded today. Consider that people were raised in that environment. In the light of that, can you really blame them for "not liking gays"? Can you really expect more from them than "eh, I don't really like them, but they are free to do whatever among themselves"?  Personally, considering how much society changed, I already consider it a minor miracle that a majority of people could come that far.

 

Well, I never said that I expect anybody to change its mindset. Neither I said that I have the right to attack a regular person who dislikes homosexuals but don't actively express this, neither try to diminish their civil rights. I liked the words you used to describe them, mildly homophobic, it's a nice term. 

However Sanderson is an author, so he's mildly homophobia can be reflected in their work if he's not wise enough. That's why he avoid writing about LGBT characters. In the momento someone (like my father) who dislikes homosexual relationships, but not commit any kind of violence against them, have some platform to express freely there is a high chance of been unintentionally offensive.

Since Sanderson seems to be someone who enjoying portray humans as best they can he will obviously not been satisfied if he ended been depreciate with his own gay characters and worse, alienating some of his fans in this process who will be severely dissatisfied with verifying stupid and / or stereotyped representation

That's why he's having his own time before feeling comfortable enough to write about a major LGBT charactes. And I don't think we need to put pressure on him. It's better no gay/lesbian casting at all than have a pretty bad one.

[Comatose]

This thread has been on the staff's radar, and there seems to be some continuing issues, so I wanted to step in for a moment.  To be clear, while I do have personal feelings and opinions on this subject, I am currently using my staff/mod voice, so listen up :).  

First, I would like to thank people here for trying to remain civil and exercising humility, even when things were heated, stressful, or hurtful.  There are some issues in what has been posted, but there is a lot to be proud of as well.  

Now for the moderation part.  I would like to direct a shift in this conversation going forward.  The OP of this topic was expressing a desire for more queer characters in Brandon's books (and in SF/Fantasy generally), specifically a "gay male protagonist".  While there has been some good discussion about why this is important, there has also been a lot of 'counterarguments' stating why Brandon is doing his best and why Brandon should not be obligated to include more queer characters.  While these are valid opinions, and it makes sense why they came up, they are not, strictly speaking, on topic.  This thread was not titled or framed as a discussion of whether Brandon should include more queer representation, it was started as an expression of desire for that occur (at least that's how I interpreted it, I could be wrong).  

With that context in mind, please keep the following two points in mind moving forward:

(1) Read the thread before posting.  A lot of people have been making the same points over and over, or even repeating their own posts.  I get that it is easy not to feel heard, but please let the conversation evolve, instead of continually bringing it back to the same point.  

(2) Keep the purpose of the thread in mind.  I've noticed a lot of threads along these lines continually get drawn to the question of 'should' Brandon include more rep, or 'should' he be obligated to include more rep, when that is not always what is the subject of a thread.  The same three WoBs come up again and again.  People should be able to discuss their wants and desires without needing to debate their reason for having those desires.  There are tons of debate threads on the shard, so try to remember to read the room, and if you don't see an applicable debate thread, consider making one yourself, and allow people who want space just to vent and express wishes to do that.  

So, going forward, please continue discussion of what you'd like to see from a queer protagonist, or why you would like to see a queer protagonist here.  If you would like to debate, please move on.  

[Honorless]

On 4/15/2020 at 4:15 AM, ChickenLiberty said:

I don't want to get involved in this discussion, but I thought I'd just throw this WoB out to those who are.

Quote

ladyknightradiant

Have we seen all four of the genders for the Parshendi?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes. 

ladyknightradiant

So it's more than just malen and femalen?

Brandon Sanderson

Well, male and female. So, basically, in my original notes I was trying to decide if I should call them [something else?] but they-- eventually we ended up-- It's basically, they have a male neuter and female neuter, and then a male and a female. So yes, there are four genders. [...] And, if you can't tell, the malen and femalen are both asexual, completely.

 

Thank you for sharing. I've seen that one before, I'll go look for more and share them here to hopefully make someone's day

Quote

Questioner

I know you have gay and lesbian, and you are planning on trans characters and have trans-ish characters. Do you have any asexual characters?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes, though I'm cheating. All the [singers] are asexual in certain-- I do have a non-[singer] asexual character, but I cheated and made an entire race of asexual characters.

Emerald City Comic Con 2018 (March 1, 2018)

Quote

wiresegal

In OB, you explained that the Singers have four sexes. I was wondering... Can the Singers have genders other than those four, like humans? Even as simple as just not going with male, female, or malen/femalen. Could a transgender Singer use their ability to shift forms to change their biological reality? And, finally, could a Spren be non-binary, if it wasn't personified in a typical male/female way?

Brandon Sanderson

In the cosmere as a whole, a person's perception of themselves has a lot of power over both their Spiritual and Physical forms. It is possible, with Investiture, to change their biology to match Cognitive perceptions--and while this could be easier for some races (like the Singers) it's not outside plausibility for any race.

There are non-binary spren, actually--and you should be meeting one important one quite soon in the books.

General Reddit 2018 (Jan. 1, 2018)

Quote

Kogiopsis

We were wondering about spren gender and if spren can have non-binary genders.

Brandon Sanderson

That is certainly possible... After all, I should mention this, since the Parshendi have non-binary genders. Because they have four genders.

Words of Radiance Portland signing (March 7, 2014)

Quote

RenegadeShroom

Have any groups of singers ever had any nonbinary genders? That is to say, a fifth gender recognized by their culture, rather than malen and femalen, which seem to function as more of an extension of the gender binary than anything our culture would recognize as nonbinary.

Brandon Sanderson

Yes.

Skype Q&A (Oct. 8, 2018)

Quote

UppityDarkeyes

Would you be willing to confirm that the use of 'they' pronouns for the Sibling is because the Sibling is non-binary? Since apparently some people are confused on this point.

Brandon Sanderson

The sibling did not view themselves as male or female. (And considered it odd that so many spren would adopt human genders.)

Skyward Pre-Release AMA (Nov. 3, 2018)

Quote

Questioner

How did you decide that you were going to tackle racism, classism, gender, all those things in The Way of Kings? What sort of things went into how you decided the various ways...?

Brandon Sanderson

One of the things I like about Fantasy is the ability to tackle things like this in a way that removes the baggage from our current society which is why you see me doing things like the gender relations based around whether the hand is sleeved or not; what are feminine and masculine arts... I want to do something that's one step removed—not too far removed, because I want it to be pertinent—but removed enough that we can remove some of the baggage and talk about things like this. That's where the lighteyes and darkeyes came from.

I just decided to do it because I felt it's an important part of who we are, and something important to discuss. Beyond the fact that the Parshendi-Human thing is going to be a big deal for this series so I wanted to introduce it early on in the book to let you know this is something that we're going to deal with. 

Words of Radiance San Francisco signing (March 6, 2014)

Quote

Kogiopsis

Since Returned come back as kind of an idealized form of themselves, if somebody was transgender in their original life would they Return as the sex they had been assigned the first time or the gender they identified as?

Brandon Sanderson

I would think that a transgendered person could definitely come back as how they identify. Perception is very important in these sorts of things. It would really depend on the person, but yes.

Words of Radiance Portland signing (March 7, 2014)

Quote

R'Shara

Would Stormlight healing, Progression, or Feruchemical gold healing count as some of the ways that a transgender person could change their body to match their identity?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes. Those would work. In fact, that's kind of the main way that you would make that happen. Injections of Investiture making the body match the Spiritual and Cognitive.

Legion Release Party (Sept. 19, 2018)

Quote

Glamdring804

Could someone, using Investiture the right way, could a transgender person use Investiture to change their body to match--

Brandon Sanderson

Yes.

MisCon 2018 (May 26, 2018)

Quote

wiresegal

In post-medallion-tech Scadrial, (i.e. Era 3) is there any cultural awareness of transgender people? Since for some, their biological state would be affected by Feruchemical gold healing, and that would probably be a documented effect.

Brandon Sanderson

The different cultures and subcultures are going to look at this differently, but I'd say yes, there is awareness. And the more they experiment with the metallic arts being available outside of genetic lines, the more this will be understood for reasons you point out.

Skyward Pre-Release AMA (Oct. 29, 2018)

Quote

wiresegal

Are most kandra comfortable in any body configuration, or is MeLaan being comfortable in any gendered body an outlier? (i.e. do female kandra usually prefer female bodies, etc). And if this is common among kandra, is it because their long lives lead to introspection and self-examination, or is it just part of the species psychology?

Also, it's mentioned that kandra can "smell" whether another kandra is male or female, biologically. Does a transgender kandra have a different "scent?" What about nonbinary? And if they don't smell different, can they change what they "smell" like? (without using any magic beyond their shapeshifting)

Brandon Sanderson

You find a lot more kandra like MeLaan in the later generations. Generations who were allowed to develop a stronger, independent kandra culture separate from always being integrated with human culture. However, I'd say that almost every kandra, by nature of their physiology, spends a good time exploring both genders. I wouldn't call MeLaan an outlier.

Kandra learn very extreme control over their bodies, and can choose which scent to express and which gender (even to other kandra) to present. This includes a neutral scent, or some mix or something new, if they so decide. Remember that a kandra who wants to hide who they are, even from other kandra, is fully capable of doing so. Under current in-world technology, even blood tests would not be able to distinguish a kandra from the form they have decided to take.

Skyward Pre-Release AMA (Oct. 29, 2018)

Quote

Brandon Sanderson

Oh, you want an intersex. That's something very tough for me to write because I've only interviewed a few intersex people and transgender. I think they would make a wonderful character but I think that's kind of a minefield doing on screen, since it's not something I've done my research for right now.

Waygate Foundation Write-a-thon (Jan. 17, 2014)

Quote

Brandon Sanderson

For the same reason that I didn't want to do a transgendered on air streaming when I haven't done the research. I don't want to write a gay character without having the resources to send the book to my gay friends to read them and say "Hey am I accidentally being offensive" and things like that. It's just something that I want to be very extra careful on so I'm not going to do it on screen. There is just too many potential pit falls. I know that we want to try  to write the 'other', and that's important, but I worry that with all of this brainstorming this could go silly, so I just want to be careful.

Waygate Foundation Write-a-thon (Jan. 17, 2014)

Quote

Questioner

A friend wanted me to ask if you ever had plans to put in a transgender character.

Brandon Sanderson

Yes. Trying to find the right place, but it will likely happen sooner rather than later.

Skyward San Francisco signing (Nov. 8, 2018)

Transgender representation is especially important as they're the quite often among the most vulnerable members of LGBT community.

And it's come to the forefront again with groups like TERFs, etc. Some people believe that there are only two genders and everyone who doesn't fall into the binary is just "looking for attention" or that it's a "First World problem" and that in Third World or developing countries or in older times you won't find any trans people. That isn't true at all: there are transgender communities and institutions in all of those places and have been for a very long time. Google two-spirit or hijra and you'll find that out

There are so many authors who ignore these issues, it's important to take the time to appreciate those who don't

Edited January 21, 2021 by Honorless

[AonEne]

At this point I’m not sure what exactly I should be saying - the thread was created for male gay rep, but from the get-go it’s been discussing other LGBTQIAP+ (Okay, I love the inclusions, all of them, but this is starting to defeat the point of an acronym lol. I might just start saying queer in reference to all sexual/gender orientations which are ‘outside of the norm’) stuff. So if I should split off into a new thread for any talk of not gay characters, please yell at me to do so. (I’d like to say something about one of those comments, I’m just not sure if here is still the right place, thanks to Comatose’s post - which was nice, thank you.) 

[king of nowhere]

On 14/4/2020 at 6:50 PM, R J said:

I asked for a gay character once and scroll to see what happened. Did I get angry and say things? Yes. But am I really asking for that much here?

to be fair, nobody said or thought that you should not have a major gay character. the discussion was mostly on how much of an obligation writers have to do this (they should? they don't have to, but it would be nice if they do? it's entirely up to them, no pressure?). plus, there were several tangents.

 

On 15/4/2020 at 9:25 AM, R J said:

 or that it's a "First World problem" and that in Third World or developing countries or in older times you won't find any trans people.

well, it's true that we rarely see trans people in old times. that's because most of the times they would be stoned, or burned at the stake, or executed in some other creative way. in the same way you also see few instances of rape in the past, because rape was considered the woman's fault, so women tried to hide it if it happened. they also tended to stay holed up in home and only go outside with a husband or male relative to act as bodyguard.

it can certainly be called a "first world problem" if we define the term as "you would not care about this if you were still struggling to get adequate food and basic sanitation". by that definition, of course, every problem we have is a first world problem, and the definition is quite meaningless. except perhaps to remind us how far we've came, that we have resources enough to care for problems that don't have anything to do with immediate survival. So, yay progress!

Now let's go back to tackle first world problems. what would be the point of progress if it didn't allow us to care for things beyond immediate survival?

 

[Honorless]

48 minutes ago, king of nowhere said:

well, it's true that we rarely see trans people in old times. that's because most of the times they would be stoned, or burned at the stake, or executed in some other creative way. in the same way you also see few instances of rape in the past, because rape was considered the woman's fault, so women tried to hide it if it happened. they also tended to stay holed up in home and only go outside with a husband or male relative to act as bodyguard.

it can certainly be called a "first world problem" if we define the term as "you would not care about this if you were still struggling to get adequate food and basic sanitation". by that definition, of course, every problem we have is a first world problem, and the definition is quite meaningless. except perhaps to remind us how far we've came, that we have resources enough to care for problems that don't have anything to do with immediate survival. So, yay progress!

Now let's go back to tackle first world problems. what would be the point of progress if it didn't allow us to care for things beyond immediate survival?

I may have burned those detractors but you effin' cremated them, lol! 

Edited April 16, 2020 by R J

[Ripheus23]

https://www.google.com/books/edition/The_Waking_Engine/RdcKAgAAQBAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&printsec=frontcover I think one of/the lead protagonists in this book is a gay guy. For no reason I comprehend (I really don't), I started reading this book and then got distracted and gave up, even though everything about it appealed to me. So I don't know how well the protagonist reps the group or what.

[SwordNimiForPresident]

One of the main characters in The Prince of Nothing series is gay, though it isn't really confirmed until the third book. He is also the most disturbing character I have ever read. In fact the entire series is disturbing. Now that I think about, don't read it unless you're ready to find a good therapist. It's seriously demented.

[Comatose]

@AonEne I think discussion of adding more queer characters of all shades and what we would like to see is fine and on topic.  I was more wanting to encourage discussion and lessen debate (the should/would discussion) which can occur elsewhere and has run its course in this thread.    

Hope that helps!

[AonEne]

5 hours ago, Comatose said:

@AonEne I think discussion of adding more queer characters of all shades and what we would like to see is fine and on topic.  I was more wanting to encourage discussion and lessen debate (the should/would discussion) which can occur elsewhere and has run its course in this thread.    

Hope that helps!

Thank you for the advice!  

On 4/15/2020 at 1:25 AM, R J said:

All the [singers] are asexual in certain-- I do have a non-[singer] asexual character, but I cheated and made an entire race of asexual characters. 

First question: who’s the non-singer ace?! Jaaaaaasnah, perhaps? Heck, Brandon, I need you to reveal who this is. 

Second...well, not a question but a hope: I love the singers, but I’d like to see more characters be ace when that isn’t the norm for their species. You get a lot of aliens who are asexual, for example. 

[Karger]

On 4/16/2020 at 2:33 AM, AonEne said:

(Okay, I love the inclusions, all of them, but this is starting to defeat the point of an acronym lol. I might just start saying queer in reference to all sexual/gender orientations which are ‘outside of the norm’)

Just say nonheteronormative. 

[AonEne]

On 4/27/2020 at 6:12 PM, Karger said:

Just say nonheteronormative. 

Yeah, but that’s even longer.  

[king of nowhere]

I prefer lgbt because, in the italian pronunciation, it rolls off the tongue easily. just adding the Q makes it nigh-unpronounceable. it also strikes a good balance between putting in enough terms without being too long.

[AonEne]

16 minutes ago, king of nowhere said:

I prefer lgbt because, in the italian pronunciation, it rolls off the tongue easily. just adding the Q makes it nigh-unpronounceable. 

That’s fair; it doesn’t roll off the tongue as much in English, though. 

[Bookish Ocelot]

11 hours ago, AonEne said:

That’s fair; it doesn’t roll off the tongue as much in English, though. 

I've been using GRSM (Gender, romantic, and sexual minorities) and SAGA (Sexual and gender minorities). SAGA rolls right off the tongue but it isn't as inclusive. Anyways.

I do think that there is a long way to go in terms of GRSM representation in adult sci-fi/fantasy (Meaning books not marketed as YA). The YA genre has actually done pretty well in terms of this - there are lots of popular fantasy books with non-straight leads or side characters. In fantasy books marketed towards adults I have seen 0. Unless you count The Priory of the Orange Tree. Brandon is a very popular author and has lots of influence. Surely he could use his platform for representation?

[Staenbridge]

On 29/04/2020 at 1:45 PM, Bookish Ocelot said:

I've been using GRSM (Gender, romantic, and sexual minorities) and SAGA (Sexual and gender minorities). SAGA rolls right off the tongue but it isn't as inclusive. Anyways.

 

GRSM is the one I use (you're going to have to clue me in on where the "A" is in "Gender Minorities").

IMO, anything beyond LGBT or LGBTQ is too convoluted for common use. The point of an abbreviation is to be short and snappy: an 8 letter initialism is venturing into alphabet mafia territory, and gives me this shifting goalpost vibe for representation in the acronym. I've seen stuff like "QUILTBAG" proposed, but that's really trying to save a sinking ship. 

On 17/04/2020 at 11:53 PM, AonEne said:

who’s the non-singer ace?! Jaaaaaasnah, perhaps? Heck, Brandon, I need you to reveal who this is.

My bet is Jasnah or one of the long lived characters, i.e. Hoid or a Shard's Vessel. I could imagine that having lived for thousands of years would have a large impact on your attitudes towards romantic and/or sexual couplings, especially if who you are is being constantly moulded to better fit the Intent of your Shard.

[Bookish Ocelot]

2 hours ago, Staenbridge said:

GRSM is the one I use (you're going to have to clue me in on where the "A" is in "Gender Minorities").

IMO, anything beyond LGBT or LGBTQ is too convoluted for common use. The point of an abbreviation is to be short and snappy: an 8 letter initialism is venturing into alphabet mafia territory, and gives me this shifting goalpost vibe for representation in the acronym. I've seen stuff like "QUILTBAG" proposed, but that's really trying to save a sinking ship. 

My bet is Jasnah or one of the long lived characters, i.e. Hoid or a Shard's Vessel. I could imagine that having lived for thousands of years would have a large impact on your attitudes towards romantic and/or sexual couplings, especially if who you are is being constantly moulded to better fit the Intent of your Shard.

I realize I typed it wrong. Whoops. Also, the alphabet mafia is exactly why GRSM is needed. 

[Staenbridge]

13 minutes ago, Bookish Ocelot said:

I realize I typed it wrong. Whoops. Also, the alphabet mafia is exactly why GRSM is needed. 

Well, that makes two of us; I normally say "GSRM" rather than "GRSM"...

[AonEne]

12 hours ago, Staenbridge said:

My bet is Jasnah or one of the long lived characters, i.e. Hoid or a Shard's Vessel. I could imagine that having lived for thousands of years would have a large impact on your attitudes towards romantic and/or sexual couplings, especially if who you are is being constantly moulded to better fit the Intent of your Shard. 

Definitely. My only worry there is that if holding a Shard made you feel that way, it’s not exactly hitting the normalizing and relatable goals of rep  but it’s a step in the right direction. 

[The Awakened Salad]

9 hours ago, AonEne said:

Definitely. My only worry there is that if holding a Shard made you feel that way, it’s not exactly hitting the normalizing and relatable goals of rep  but it’s a step in the right direction. 

Are you saying that you’re not currently holding a piece of an extremely powerful being that was shattered thousands of years ago that lets you wield immense power but slowly erodes your personality to fit into a certain Intent?  

It’s okay I 100% agree with you I just saw the opportunity and couldn’t resist

[AonEne]

45 minutes ago, The Awakened Salad said:

Are you saying that you’re not currently holding a piece of an extremely powerful being that was shattered thousands of years ago that lets you wield immense power but slowly erodes your personality to fit into a certain Intent?  

It’s okay I 100% agree with you I just saw the opportunity and couldn’t resist

As shocking as I know this news is gonna be for you guys, no, I’m not.  

[Staenbridge]

12 hours ago, AonEne said:

Definitely. My only worry there is that if holding a Shard made you feel that way, it’s not exactly hitting the normalizing and relatable goals of rep  but it’s a step in the right direction. 

Oh yeah good point haha, depending on the execution it might give off a "Shards are not human and that's why they don't feel romantic inclinations anymore because human ⇒ romance" vibe, which isn't a stellar idea.