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The Skybreakers

Unmade- Hemulargy?

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I was rereading today and found something strange in the book.

at the part when Shallan fights off the unmade Re-Shephir she theorises that the unmade was searching for something it lost.

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"it made Shallan wonder if Re-Shephir wasn't merely trying to understand humankind, but rather searching for something it itself had lost ".    

Now this matches close to how the inquisitors and koloss where described. Trying to find what they had lost in themselves. I'm not too sure why this would be of massive importance, but it suggests odium - or another being on roshar - knows how to use Hemulargy. This could lead on to something In future on roshar, though I can't yet figure it out

Edited by The Skybreakers
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3 minutes ago, The Skybreakers said:

I was rereading today and found something strange in the book.

at the part when Shallan fights off the unmade Re-Shephir she theorises that the unmade was searching for something it lost.

Now this matches close to how the inquisitors and koloss where described. Trying to find what they had lost in themselves. I'm not too sure why this would be of massive importance, but it suggests odium - or another being on roshar - knows how to use Hemulargy. This could lead on to something In future on roshar, though I can't yet figure it out

I entirely think it's similar principles, but not literally Hemalurgy (unless or until we see actual Spikes in one of them).  I see it as the same category as Heralds being a whole lot Like  a Returned, but not literally having a Divine Breath of Endowment.  

In the case of Roshar, My best guess is that they are similar in concept to the Fused where he took something preexisting (probably Living PR entity rather than a spren) and used them as Raw materials to create something new.  In the case of the Fused they are spren-like ghosts with varying but specific Modifications to grant Powers (the Thundercasts are probably the largest amount of rework), and my guess it that the UnMade were simply taken apart and reconfigured to a much greater degree.  

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25 minutes ago, The Skybreakers said:

 

Thanks, though in Warbreaker 'vasher' a specifies that they do not know much of breath, and I know other theories that stormlight is simply hundreds of breaths, maybe in Warbreaker if someone was to reach (X) heightening they may somehow find the ability to soulcast. This theory wa powered by how Nightblood still consumed stormlight but (it seems to be) a slower rate

Though that's a wierd idea, my point is that anything relating to breaths we can't be entirely sure about, as they don't know about breaths themselves, in Warbreaker they also find that the returned Are also unknown to them. Though I do not know much of past conversations so I can't be entirely sure this hasnt already been disproved.

23 minutes ago, Quantus said:

I entirely think it's similar principles, but not literally Hemalurgy (unless or until we see actual Spikes in one of them).  I see it as the same category as Heralds being a whole lot Like  a Returned, but not literally having a Divine Breath of Endowment.  

In the case of Roshar, My best guess is that they are similar in concept to the Fused where he took something preexisting (probably Living PR entity rather than a spren) and used them as Raw materials to create something new.  In the case of the Fused they are spren-like ghosts with varying but specific Modifications to grant Powers (the Thundercasts are probably the largest amount of rework), and my guess it that the UnMade were simply taken apart and reconfigured to a much greater degree.  

 

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50 minutes ago, The Skybreakers said:

Thanks, though in Warbreaker 'vasher' a specifies that they do not know much of breath, and I know other theories that stormlight is simply hundreds of breaths, maybe in Warbreaker if someone was to reach (X) heightening they may somehow find the ability to soulcast. This theory wa powered by how Nightblood still consumed stormlight but (it seems to be) a slower rate

Though that's a wierd idea, my point is that anything relating to breaths we can't be entirely sure about, as they don't know about breaths themselves, in Warbreaker they also find that the returned Are also unknown to them. Though I do not know much of past conversations so I can't be entirely sure this hasnt already been disproved.

Breaths are Endowment's Investiture while Stormlight is Honor's. The Shards' Investiture have qualitative differences, in these specific cases we have the WoBs given below:

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ZenBossanova (paraphrased)

Can Vasher use Stormlight to Awaken things?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

No, all it does is keep him alive. But he has tried and has not figured out how to Awaken things.

Firefight Phoenix signing (Jan. 21, 2015)

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Questioner

Would Vasher be able to use Stormlight in the same way that he can get Breath?

Brandon Sanderson

That would not be immediately easy, but Stormlight could feed Nightblood.

Questioner

Which is why Szeth can wield Nightblood?

Brandon Sanderson

Eh, you'll have to see if but yes. That could theoretically happen. You can use most of the magics on most of the planets to fuel the other magics, if you know how to do it, it is not easy.

Words of Radiance Philadelphia signing (March 21, 2014)

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R.E. (paraphrased)

Does Vasher have a different way of getting access to Stormlight than everyone else? Given that he has no spren, no honorblade and he isn't a squire?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

Yes. He can use Stormlight to stay alive, but it doesn't let him Surgebind.

R.E. (paraphrased)

Could Szeth get access to this method?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

Yes

R.E. (paraphrased)

And use it to fuel Nightblood?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

Yes he could.

R.E. (paraphrased)

Can you tell me what that method is?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

*smiles*

Supanova 2017 - Sydney (June 18, 2017)

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Questioner

So assuming you have mentioned that it is technically possible to be able to use one magic system on another planet from a different one...

Brandon Sanderson

Yes.

Questioner

Is it possible to fuel that... Like, say could you fuel Awakening using Stormlight, or do you have to bring Breaths?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes, you could!

Questioner

Okay.

Brandon Sanderson

Excellent question. Now it's-- there are tricks to making it happen on each world. Some are easier than others, but yes you can.

Questioner

So could that allow a loophole to maybe... convert from one form of power to another? Or like from Stormlight to Breath?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes. In fact, that's part of why Vasher--

Questioner

Vasher. I wondered that.

Brandon Sanderson

--is on Roshar, is because it's a lot easier to get Stormlight than Breath.

Calamity release party (Feb. 16, 2016)

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Ilkhan2016

Breath and Stormlight are both forms of Investiture. AFAIK you can power any of the magic systems from any form of Investiture. Zahel is on Roshar, I believe, primarily due to how easy Investiture (Stormlight) is to come across.

AFAIK the form of Investiture doesn't change anything about the abilities. For example, Szeth was sucked out of Stormlight when he drew Nightblood; and Azure used Stormlight to Awaken in Shadesmar.

/u/mistborn is that right?

Brandon Sanderson

A lot of this depends on the Investiture and the magic in question. Azure was legit using Breaths, for example--ones she'd brought with her. But Szeth was able to feed Stormlight to Nightblood, much as Vasher uses Stormlight to keep himself alive.

To Awaken with Stormlight, the easiest thing to do would be to first change Stormlight into Breaths--something that Azure doesn't know how to do. (Admittedly, Hoid doesn't either, so it's not like it's a simple thing to achieve.) You could also theoretically use some magical (or mechanical) means to power your Awakening with a different form of Investiture.

Extesian

This is very interesting. Is it possible then in the Cosmere for the 'intent' (spin or however described) of Investiture to be changed? And I mean within reasonable limits (not the powers of six shards or any of that). Can a Shard effectively grow in power in a place (e.g. toward an avatar) through another Shard's Investiture being changed (not just corrupted)? Or is it just making one type ('intent' - you should canonize a word for this :D) of Investiture mimic the properties of another?

Brandon Sanderson

Most of the ways of accomplishing what you're talking about would involve either 1) fooling/overwriting your spiritual makeup somehow. (This is what Hemalurgy does, for example.) 2) Refining the power somehow into a more pure form.

But there are a lot of variables. The way magic from Nalthis works, for example, the system is just looking for any available Investiture to power itself--and so basically anything will do, regardless of the source. This includes consuming your own soul, in some cases...

You'll see terminology coming along eventually that facilitates talking about all of this. I'm not yet decided on some of it.

Celestial_Blu3

How many Breaths does [Azure] have by her final appearance in OB?

Brandon Sanderson

That's a RAFO, I'm afraid.

General Reddit 2019 (April 25, 2019)

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Questioner

With Warbreaker and Stormlight Archive, Vasher and Zahel. *inaudible*

Brandon Sanderson

He went to Roshar because he knew ahead of time, that you could get Stormlight, and how easy it was. So he made his way there because he was tired of sucking peoples' souls to stay alive.

Questioner

How did he know?

Brandon Sanderson

He, as part of a group of scholars, stumbled upon the nature of worldhopping long ago.

Questioner

Could he the same group of scholars as Jasnah?

Brandon Sanderson

No, it's a group of scholars on Nalthis who were studying magic, Investiture, and stumbled upon the means by which you transition into the Cognitive Realm. So, he actually had experience with Shardbldes before, and that was part of how he built... well, he was part of it, but really...

Questioner

So, is Nightblood kind of like a Shardblade? Is a Shardblade?

Brandon Sanderson

Nightblood is an attempt to make a Shardblade using a different magic. And it turned out poorly.

Questioner

Speaking of Nightblood, how did that transition from Nalthis?

Brandon Sanderson

I have not answered that yet. Eventually, you will find out how they ended up on Roshar.

Arcanum Unbounded release party (Nov. 22, 2016)

Quote

Questioner

How does Nightblood work on Roshar?

Brandon Sanderson

Well Nightblood feeds on Investiture, which is the general life-force/magic-force in the cosmere and so he can feed on basically any source of magical energy.

Questioner

And do other magics work on other worlds?

Brandon Sanderson

I've been describing it lately more like you see DC current and AC current, where they're similar things but slightly different. It is possible to make magics work on other planets, some it's easier than others.

Salt Lake City Comic-Con 2014 (Sept. 4, 2014)

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fletchershair

Now that Nightblood is on Roshar, can it use Stormlight the same way is would use Breaths?

Brandon Sanderson

I'll just tell you "yes." I was gonna RAFO that, but I think everyone's figured that out by now.

fletchershair

A friend wants to know exactly how you can go between types of Investiture. You've said that you can before.

Brandon Sanderson

It just depends on the Investiture. Some are much easier to use than others. Like, running Aons with other Investiture, very hard. Just the nature of the magic makes it very hard. But, Nightblood? He'll feed on whatever he can get. So, it's really easy to fuel Nightblood.

KChan

Does Feruchemy have anything to do with that? Converting into Investiture?

Brandon Sanderson

Not gonna say.

Firefight Miami signing (Jan. 8, 2015)

 

As to your question, just like the Fused were once Parshendi/Dawnsingers/Singers/Listeners, it is theorised that the Unmade were once spren, Corrupted by Odium. Another quote to consider is in Oathbringer, as said by Sja-Anat "we were made, then unmade"

Edited by Honorless
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15 minutes ago, Honorless said:

Breaths are Endowment's Investiture while Stormlight is Honor's. The Shards' Investiture have qualitative differences, in these specific cases we have the WoBs given below:

 

As to your question, just like the Fused were once Parshendi/Dawnsingers/Singers/Listeners, it is theorised that the Unmade were once spren, Corrupted by Odium. Another quote to consider is in Oathbringer, as said by Sja-Anat "we were made, then unmade"

Thanks

 

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1 minute ago, The Skybreakers said:

Thanks

No probs :D

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