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Crylorenzo

Returned And Seeing The Future

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While re-reading Warbreaker, a question came into my mind - we all know that Returned come back for a purpose, probably based on what Endowment sees in the future.
We also know from Odium's scene with Taravangian that in the view of the future, some people are grayed out like Renarin. If I get any of the exact wording wrong, the idea is still there some there are individuals who have become wildcards/unreadable. I wondered if Brandon has said anything about whether the Returned would be similarly greyed out or not. I feel like they would be considered wildcards in a similar way.

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14 hours ago, Crylorenzo said:

While re-reading Warbreaker, a question came into my mind - we all know that Returned come back for a purpose, probably based on what Endowment sees in the future.
We also know from Odium's scene with Taravangian that in the view of the future, some people are grayed out like Renarin. If I get any of the exact wording wrong, the idea is still there some there are individuals who have become wildcards/unreadable. I wondered if Brandon has said anything about whether the Returned would be similarly greyed out or not. I feel like they would be considered wildcards in a similar way.

I think part of what greyed out Renarin, is his powers are a continual effect. As in happens multiple times, which would result in the wildcardness to me. While with Returned, they are shown a glimpse of the future. Asked if they want to go back to change it. If they agree, they are put into a body, but lose their memory of it except for little glimpses. It is then up to them to act on what little info they have. Blushweaver was the other example of this. She was trying to prevent the war, but because she had trouble recalling it, her interpretation was to get control of the army to avoid catastrophe. So with the returned, their returning only affects things in regards to themselves and that specific moment. Renarin sees a vision. Then acts on that vision. Then sees another vision that was affected by that action. And then acts on that vision. And so on. So for instance a returned changes the future. A future watcher, would see that change, and react to that change, but unless another returned is sent, that reaction of the future watcher is what remains static. Meanwhile since Renarin is continual as well, then Renarin changes the future. Then Odium reacts and changes the future. Then Renarin reacts and changes. Then Odium. And etc. 

So I see the returned as tossing a pebble into a lake. I see Renarin as tossing in numerous pebbles into the lake, or continually tossing pebbles into the lake. One makes a ripple and then the water stills, while the other makes ripples upon ripples upon ripples. 

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I think it'd cause some fuzziness, but the Returned visions don't seem to be so detailed that it'd cause a huge amount of interference. Though a sample size of one really isn't proof of much heh.

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48 minutes ago, Pathfinder said:

Returned, they are shown a glimpse of the future. Asked if they want to go back to change it. If they agree, they are put into a body, but

The Returned still are able to feel some SR stuff like Lightsong feeling Siri and Lightsong consummating their marriage.  I think this is pretty explicit in the annotations.

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4 minutes ago, Karger said:

The Returned still are able to feel some SR stuff like Lightsong feeling Siri and Lightsong consummating their marriage.  I think this is pretty explicit in the annotations.

Could you provide the quote? I don't know what wording to dig for to pull it up. Not saying you are wrong. Just I would like to read it for myself. 

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5 hours ago, Pathfinder said:

Could you provide the quote? I don't know what wording to dig for to pull it up. Not saying you are wrong. Just I would like to read it for myself. 

Found it under the spoiler.  The tense of the explanation indicates pretty strongly that Lightsong's dreams are reacting to something happening in the now.  He is not just reacting to stuff from earlier. 

Quote

 

Why does Siri having sex with the God King make Lightsong’s dreams turn more violent? Well, it means that the impending disaster is far more dangerous. If she is with child, then the tragedy of her death is that much greater. Beyond that, her having a child (or being thought to be going to have one) is part of what makes Bluefingers do what he feels he needs to in executing her.

He might have done that anyway, but the actual event of the consummation of the marriage is a powerful turning point in the karma of the city and the future of the world. And Lightsong, who is extra sensitive to these things because of being a Returned, is affected by that change in what is coming in the future.

 

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17 hours ago, Karger said:

Found it under the spoiler.  The tense of the explanation indicates pretty strongly that Lightsong's dreams are reacting to something happening in the now.  He is not just reacting to stuff from earlier. 

 

Thank you! Though maybe perhaps it is because Returned get more impressions, and vague dreams, while Renarin gets warnings from Glys, and literal "tv screens" showing him what will happen so he can act more on it? Just coming up with ideas. 

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5 hours ago, Pathfinder said:

Thank you! Though maybe perhaps it is because Returned get more impressions, and vague dreams, while Renarin gets warnings from Glys, and literal "tv screens" showing him what will happen so he can act more on it? Just coming up with ideas. 

The returned also have no actual idea how their powers work and I am not sure their powers are really of the same type anyway.

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12 minutes ago, Karger said:

The returned also have no actual idea how their powers work and I am not sure their powers are really of the same type anyway.

So not sure if I am misunderstanding you or not, but the impression I got from the OP was that they were wondering if the Returned would be "greyed" out like Renarin was by being a wildcard. I was reasoning perhaps not, because Renarin has more info, and more capabilities to actively act on the information he gains, while a Returned is more passive in so far as they get glimpses without context. 

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On 2/14/2020 at 5:56 PM, Pathfinder said:

get glimpses without context. 

But perhaps their glimpses are wider in scope?  Also the returned don't know much about their powers(perhaps they could be better used).

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On 2/15/2020 at 6:57 PM, Karger said:

But perhaps their glimpses are wider in scope?  Also the returned don't know much about their powers(perhaps they could be better used).

I was more going on what we have seen, and in comparison to Renarin, it seems pretty limited to me. Renarin has Glys actively warning him of things to come, and then literal "tv screens" pop out of the ground and show him exactly what is going to happen. And this happens on multiple occasions. Meanwhile, from what I recall of the book, a Returned gets glimpses, that have to be interpreted, or uses paintings to trigger a warning they do not fully understand. So my intention was to compare how they both function in the books, and what we see them at, rather than their potential. 

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