Theory: A Different Essence-Surge Arrangement

[skaa]

Introduction

In a previous thread, I noted several strange things about how the Surges are currently connected to the Orders/Essences. Most of them just didn't seem to fit, in my view. How does blood relate to illumination? What has tallow got to do with transformation? Anyway, since I promised not to formulate a theory in that thread, I'll just post the theoretical solution I came up with here.

But first, let me describe two other issues that, in addition to the Surge issues I've already mentioned, eventually led me to this theory (spoilered for length).

The Problem of Elemental Arrangement

One of the things I noticed when I first saw the table of Essences is that the ten Essences are basically the five Classical Elements of the Greeks, but doubled. Lucentia and Spark, which represent energy, are Fire. Zephyr and Vapor, which represent gases, are Air. Blood and Tallow, which represent liquids, are Water. Foil and Talus, which represent solids, are Earth. Pulp and Sinew, which (I believe) represent divinity in general, are Aether, the divine quintessence.

My problem here is their arrangement in the Essences Table, which forms the following cycle: Air->Fire->Aether->Water->Earth->Aether. That arrangement doesn't seem to follow any discernible pattern. Even if we ignore the Aether Essences (since they seem to have a special place in the Eye of the Almighty chart, anyway), we still end up with the pattern-less Air->Fire->Water>Earth.

Aristotle and Proclus (among others) arranged the four "earthly" Elements in the following manner: Fire->Air->Water->Earth. In other words, they are arranged from the least substantial (Fire) to the most substantial (Earth), which makes sense.

(Interestingly, Aristotle gave each of the four earthly Elements a primary and a secondary sensible quality, which is mirrored in the Essences' Primary and Secondary Divine Attributes. But that's a bit off-topic right now.)

So, to repeat the problem, why is the arrangement of the Essences so weird?

The Problem of Edgedancers

Pre-WoR, I theorized that the Ten Essences were a Cosmere-wide thing. Specifically, I believe each of the ten Shardworlds had an associated Essence. Under that theory, I assigned the Essence of Lucentia to Roshar.

One significant problem with that Essence assignment is that the Knight Radiant Order associated with Lucentia, the Edgedancers, doesn't seem to be a very important Order in the grand scheme of things. They don't have the most powerful spren (that would be the Bondsmiths). They weren't the leaders (Windrunners), nor were they the most influential (probably the Lightweavers). They aren't even the most mysterious (I give the Truthwatchers that distinction). And while they were feared, it seems the Dustbringers and the Skybreakers were much more feared than they. Heck, they can't even access Shadesmar, not like the Willshapers, Elsecallers, and Lightweavers.

And yet... Lucentia is the Essence that most closely resembles the translucent Polestones, which are perhaps the most important things in Rosharian Investiture after Stormlight. The word lucentia seems to connote light and visibility. Lucentia ought to be one of the Essences linked to the Illumination Surge, but that Surge was instead given to Pulp and Blood.

What gives?

Due to these problems, I'm going to theorize that, for some reason, Tanavast "did a Leras" and fiddled with Rosharian Investiture at some point in the past. Let me detail this theory into four parts (plus a few appendices):

Part I: What Was

Part II: What Could Have Been

Part III: What Came to Be

Part IV: What Might Be

Appendix A: Order-specific Powers and the Limitation of Lightborn

Appendix B: Cultivation, the Listeners, and Odium

Appendix C: Circumstantial Evidence from the Books

---

Part I: What Was

I believe that what we now see in the Knights Radiant chart does not reflect the natural order of the Surges on Roshar. This natural order involves eight "basic" Essences (Lucentia, Spark, Vapor, Zephyr, Blood, Tallow, Foil, and Talus) that normally interact with Roshar, and the two "Aether" Essences (Sinew and Pulp) that deal with Shardic Investiture and transcend the other eight.

The interaction of the eight Essences manifest as the eight "basic" Surges: Illumination, Transformation, Gravitation, Transportation, Tension, Friction, Cohesion, and Division. Each Surge reflected the qualities of two Essences, as I shall detail below (spoilered for length):

Illumination: Lucentia and Spark

This is pretty self-explanatory. Both Lucentia and Spark connote light.

Transformation: Spark and Vapor

Sparks cause fire, which chemically transforms objects. Smoke (Vapor), is a common byproduct of this transformation by fire. Smoke and other vaporous substances can also transform their environment, like when hot vapor cause burns, or when enough smoke pollutes the atmosphere.

Gravitation: Vapor and Zephyr

Vapor is also the Essence of Darkness, and can thus be associated with the abyss, deep chasms, and black holes, all of which reminds one of the less pleasant aspect of gravity. Zephyr is the Essence of the atmosphere, which depends on strong gravity even to exist (since an object in space cannot retain an atmosphere without sufficient gravity).

Transportation: Zephyr and Blood

Both Blood and Zephyr Essences represent mediums of transportation. Blood transports oxygen and nutrients throughout the body. Air transports various gases, water (clouds), other tiny particulate matter, airborne organisms... even chickens!

Tension: Blood and Tallow

We have WoB that the Tension Surge is based on "surface tension", which is a property of liquids. Hence, its proper place is with the liquid Essences, Blood and Tallow. This also fits the term "soft axial interconnection". Notice also that this Tension Surge is supposed to be about making soft things less soft, which fits tallow (which is liquid when heated but solid at room temperature) and blood (which can turn solid due to coagulation, a.k.a. blood clotting).

Friction: Tallow and Foil

Oil and other lipids are viscous, meaning they have a relatively high internal friction, especially animal fats (e.g. tallow). They can also be used as a lubricant to lessen friction between objects. As for Foil, the process of creating extremely thin metal sheets leads to a decrease in internal friction, making metal foils more fragile and susceptible to external friction and abrasion.

Cohesion: Foil and Talus

The force of cohesion is strongest in solids. Given that the Cohesion Surge supposedly represents "strong axial interconnection", the solid Essences Foil and Talus fit this Surge perfectly.

Division: Talus and Lucentia

The word "talus" can refer to broken rock that accumulate in so-called talus deposits or scree. As for Lucentia, certain transparent objects called prisms can separate refracted light. (Edit: I've recently learned of another connection between Talus/Lucentia and Division, and it has something to do with their Polestones. Out of all the ten Polestones, only topaz and diamond exhibit perfect cleavage.)

Here's a diagram:

And here's another diagram with the exact same Essence connections, but twisted vertically at the center, and with Sinew and Pulp added but disconnected from the others:

Notice how it's almost the Double Eye of the Almighty, only minus the connections to Sinew and Pulp. Also, notice how it looks like two diamonds merged at the tip. In fact, even the first diagram sort of looks like a gemstone, and can probably be stylized into looking like the crown view of an "old eight cut" diamond.

---

Edit: Re-worded Part I due to theory developments in Part III. I sometimes change my mind about details in my theory halfway through writing it. Sorry if this confused anyone. Also, fixed some weird formatting errors that appeared in my last edit.

Edited February 2, 2015 by skaa

[skaa]

Part II: What Could Have Been

Given the differences in the Knights Radiant Double Eye chart and the theoretical "original" arrangement I described in Part I, let us take things one step further by imagining what abilities Surgebinders would have if they used my theoretical arrangement. Here is my attempt (complete with made-up Order names!):

Lucentia: Lightborn (Division and Illumination)
If you think Mistborn are overpowered, wait till you see these badasses. By manipulating Stormlight itself and dividing it into various colors, Lightborn can have access to all the Surges!

Spark: Lightweavers?Firestarters (Illumination and Transformation)
Interestingly enough, there is still an Order with both Illumination and Transformation Surges under my arrangement. They should have the same general powers as the Order of Lightweavers (perhaps not their Order-specific quirks), but I don't think the title applies to these fellows anymore. I think they focus less on inspiring people or giving "spiritual sustenance", and more on government destabilization, starting revolutions, and generally sowing chaos in enemy lands. They might also be experts in offensive uses of the Illumination Surge (e.g. firing lightning bolts at enemies). I suspect that Malchin would have been a great Firestarter.

Vapor: Dark Inquisitors (Transformation and Gravitation)
Imagine you are committing some heinous crime using Surgebinding, when all of a sudden a flying, black-clad, smoke-trailed officer of the law lands on your head while simultaneously administering a Soulcasting kick that turns you into smoke. Nobody expects the Vapor Inquisition.

Zephyr: Stormlords (Gravitation and Transportation)
A Stormlord considers himself the master not only of the sky and of the chasms, but also of the Three Realms. He may not be able to Soulcast, but he'll be able to send enemies flying in all directions, to all locations, and through all realms. He could also lord it over the spren in Shadesmar, if he so wants. Quite a dominating bunch, these Stormlords.

Blood: Ghostbloods (Transportation and Tension)
Yep, I'm incorporating the Ghostbloods in my theory. I believe Mraize and a few of his friends use the Transportation Surge to creepily appear out of nowhere, like a ghost. And as for the Tension Surge, I'm sure they found a way to creep people out using that, as well (e.g. making walls soft enough to go through, maybe?). Also, ever noticed that at least one of them is a Worldhopper? The Transportation Surge is a perfect tool for Worldhopping, since you can physically transport your entire self into Shadesmar.

 

Tallow: Oilwrestlers (Tension and Friction)
While these Tension-Friction Surgebinders can probably turn any nearby object into a deadly weapon, they won't even need weapons. Oilwrestlers are the masters of all sorts of martial arts. Not only do they have faster reflexes than Szeth or Kaladin, they're also a lot more slippery. You better watch out for that friction-enhanced fist, or you're definitely fried!

Foil: Metalsomething-ers? (Friction and Cohesion)
I don't have any theory yet about the Cohesion Surge (though I like Moogle's malleability theory), so I shall skip this for now.

Talus: Rockslayers (Cohesion and Division)
Whatever they might be doing with the Cohesion Surge, I think it's enough to say that these Surgebinders can easily slay huge rocks without the need for a Shardblade.
 

Edited January 22, 2015 by skaa

[skaa]

Part III: What Came to Be

 

Now I would like to take the hypothetical "original" Surge arrangement described in Part I and create a theoretical explanation as to how the current Surge arrangement came to be. Note that everything below is completely speculative. I make no claim of accuracy or canonicity, merely consistency. So please, don't ask for WoB or evidence!

 

*start of hypothetical scenario*

 

When Odium started threatening Roshar, Honor knew that he will have to start making warriors out of the humans he created. But he realized quickly that granting humans Surgebinding in its original unmodified form would be a mistake. With such powerful combinations of the Surges (especially those of Lightborn), Invested humans would become very difficult to rein in, and would easily be corrupted by Odium. Honor had to find a way to balance Surgebinding power somehow by tweaking the Surges a bit.

 

With the help of Cultivation, Honor modified Rosharian Investiture by mixing the "God Surges" of Adhesion and Progression in with the other Surges. This is similar to how Leras tweaked the Metallic Arts on Scadrial by including the God Metals. The Adhesion Surge is the power to bind things both physically and spiritually, basically a way to hold other Surgebinders to a certain honor code (as in the Oathpact, and as Ishar did when he forced the Knights Radiant to follow oaths). The spiritual binding would come from Honor's own Intent. The Progression Surge, on the other hand would come from Cultivation's Intent, adding the more "cultivating" abilities of Growth and Re-Growth to the pool of Surgebinding abilities.

 

After that, Honor created the ten Honorblades, one for each Essence (including the Aether Essences Sinew and Pulp), and hardwired into them his idea of how the Surges ought to be arranged, hiding the fact that there were originally only eight Surges and that they originally matched the Essences thematically. By offering the Surges to mankind via the Honorblades, Honor successfully jury-rigged the system on Roshar, creating the artificial "balance" that he desired.

 

This is why the ten Heralds have the specific powers that they have. For example, since the Lucentia Honorblade does not have the original Lucentia Surges of Illumination and Division, Vedeledev did not become some uber-powerful Lightborn, and was instead just a Friction-Progression Surgebinder. And since the Nahel spren mimicked the Honorblades, the Knights Radiant all obtained the same Surge-pairs as Honor designed.

 

*end of hypothetical scenario*

Edited May 30, 2014 by skaa

[skaa]

Part IV: What Might Be

 

Tanavast might have been successful in keeping the Surgebinders under his control for thousands of years, but he's dead now, and is likely to be replaced at some point in the Stormlight Archives series. If my theory above is correct, it is totally possible that people will figure out how to access the "real" Surge-pairs of the Essences. I think the Ghostbloods are one of them. And they are now recruiting Shallan into their ranks. Does this mean she will eventually have access to four Surges (assuming she doesn't kill Pattern)? That would be pretty neat!

 

Another thing I'm thinking about is whether Lift is being groomed by the Nightwatcher to someday become the first Lightborn ever. I guess her "Mistborn"-like method of getting Investiture from ingested substances is what triggered this thought in my mind. I am now sure to watch for signs of non-Edgedancer Surges from this awesome girl in the future.

 

I foresee a time when the Heralds shall become completely obsolete, the Honorblades cease to exist, and the original eight Surge-pairs become the norm. At that point, perhaps the Bondsmiths and the Truthwatchers will also slowly go the way of Mistborn and Atium Mistings. In the end, honor needs to come from within, not forced upon Surgebinders by the Bondsmiths. It will be interesting to see if a new holder of the Honor Shard would implement his Intent in a more democratic way.

Edited May 30, 2014 by skaa

[Khyrindor]

Wow. Wow. OK. I am going to espouse this, first of all, and I upvoted all of those. I might also ask Brandon "Did Tanvast mess with the Surges," in August, but if you're correct, I will be RAFO'd. Brandon sure put a lot of thinking into everything, didn't he! 

 

So, the only thing about this is a little personal thing. I think that somehow Dalinar will pick up Honor, Cultivation, and Odium, and then like, dominate the rest. Mostly because of that conversation with Hoid. But now, with that little thing there about Lift, maybe she will be Cultivation's champion, and Dalinar will be something else. Maybe Honodium. That would be a cool Shard. 

[skaa]

Thanks, Khyrindor! Honor+Odium sounds very interesting. It could mean Justice (hatred of wrongdoing) or some other concept that indicates "righteous anger". Lift becoming Cultivation is possible if Cultivation's holder ends up dying, but I think Lift is more of a "Spook": a fun character who could become very powerful in the end, but not a Shard.

 

By the way, I've been thinking about how Sanderson's Second Law would affect "Lightborn". There has to be some sort of limitation to them, right? So, allow me to present an appendix to my theory:

 

Appendix A: Order-specific Powers and the Limitation of Lightborn

 

Note: I've decided to revise Appendix A to reflect the following clarification by Brandon regarding an Order's unique power:

 

ALA: In addition to the two abilities given by each surge, does a Knight Radiant order have a third blended ability, the interaction of its two given surges?

BWS: Not specifically as phrased there, but each order has quirks that are unique to it. They are magical quirks, but it’s not necessarily a blend of the powers.

ALA: So Shallan’s Memories is kind of a …

BWS: Is associated with her Order, yes.

 

 

Since the "quirk" is not necessarily a hybrid of the two Surges, I will now abandon the notion of hybrid powers, my speculations of which I've hidden in the following spoiler:

(Note: Again, I've already abandoned the hybrid power idea below. I've simply kept it for documentation.)

 

I've speculated before that the Surge-pairs can somehow form hybrid powers that are unique for each Order. In this case, the merging of Division and Illumination to produce a "Surge Prism" effect is the hybrid power of Lightborn. Here's one more that I thought of:

 

Stormlords: Gravitation + Transportation = Time Travel

IRL, gravitation is how basically how mass affects the space-time continuum. This leads me to believe that time is also affected by the Gravitation Surge. I don't know how Dark Inquisitors could utilize this (what does "transforming someone through time" mean? Delayed Soulcasting?), but for Stormlords it is pretty straightforward: they can merge their Surges to travel to the future. This makes Stormlords Time Lords, as well.

 

(I wanted to add more hybrid powers here, but I can't think of anything else right now. Sorry. )

 

 

So, now that we know that each Order has its own unique quirk unrelated to their Surges, I will speculate that these quirks will still remain even if the Order's Surges has been "corrected". Therefore, a Lightweaver who became a Ghostblood would still retain the ability to record Memories (which barely has anything to do with Illumination, anyway) and perhaps even change emotions. Also, Windrunners who become Stormlords will still retain their enhanced squires, which makes sense given that Stormlords are also meant to be leaders.

 

***

 

As for the Second Law and the awesome power of Lightborn, I think it's likely that Lightborn can't access the Order-specific powers of other Orders. In other words, they won't be able to replicate the Memory ability of Ghostbloods, or whatever awesome quirks other Orders might have. Still, I think they're already pretty awesome the way they are.

Edited January 23, 2015 by skaa

[Tempus]

Hey Skaa, fun writeup, wish I could write a proper response here. Two things I do want to say.

Pulp and Sinew are clearly connected to Life.

The 'original' chart makes more sense, but it doesn't flow elegantly to the known version like Allomancy did. There are too many shifts and rearrangements and imbalances. In short, even were your premise true, it doesn't seem like it should end up in the current system.

[skaa]

Tempus, on 30 May 2014 - 12:48 PM, said:

Pulp and Sinew are clearly connected to Life.

Well... blood and tallow are also connected to life since they're organic substances found in living things. Life is also symbolized by breath (Vapor), and there is the concept of the "spark" of life. Besides, Pulp and Sinew can be connected to life and still be symbols of Adonalsium/Divinity, since it is that divine being that is responsible for life in the Cosmere.

To be clear, I was trying to go for the "Essences are from the Classical Elements" idea, so given that the four terrestrial Elements are already taken by the other Essences, the only element left for Pulp and Sinew was Aether (the fifth, special, heavenly Element).

Tempus, on 30 May 2014 - 12:48 PM, said:

The 'original' chart makes more sense, but it doesn't flow elegantly to the known version like Allomancy did. There are too many shifts and rearrangements and imbalances. In short, even were your premise true, it doesn't seem like it should end up in the current system.

Yes, Leras' change to Scadrian Investiture was pretty minimal; he just added the God metals to the normal metals, which were left intact. But in a way, Tanavast also left the "normal" Surges intact, adding only the Adhesion and Progression "God Surges". The Honorblades were his own fabrications, so he could decide which Surges to put into which Honorblade. It's like the Lord Ruler mixing various abilities in his Steel Inquisitors as he saw fit. It was only a circumvention of the system, not a fundamental change in the system.

---

@Khyrindor: By the way, I forgot to say how excited I am for the chance to have Brandon shoot down or RAFO this theory.

Knowing Brandon, though, the wording of the question will have to be really precise. It's possible that merely rearranging the Surges (and adding two Surges) would not be considered as "messing" with them, since the Surges themselves are unchanged.

Here are some possible questions I would ask in relation to this theory if I had the opportunity:

• Theoretically, can the Surges of Illumination and Division be combined to access other Surges?
• Theoretically, can the Surges of Gravitation and Transportation be combined to gain time travelling powers?
• Do the Honorblades reflect the natural pairing of the Surges, or did Honor decide which Surge pair to put in each Honorblade?
• Are there Surges that can be considered as God Surges (analogous to the God Metals on Scadrial)?

Anyway, I hope you enjoy the convention! Edited May 31, 2014 by skaa

[b4dave]

Brilliantly thought out and articulated. Kudos. I'm not sure I completely buy into it though, though I can see where your going with it. I like it, but there is still something that seems a bit off about it, like it doesn't quite fit for me. Part of me is thinking that these 8 you propose would be better suited towards the parshendi, with the final 2 surges representing things about humanity that drew towards them instead of the Listeners. But that's just me. 

 

 

 

Metalbinders for cohesion maybe in Part 2?

[skaa]

Brilliantly thought out and articulated. Kudos. I'm not sure I completely buy into it though, though I can see where your going with it. I like it, but there is still something that seems a bit off about it, like it doesn't quite fit for me. Part of me is thinking that these 8 you propose would be better suited towards the parshendi, with the final 2 surges representing things about humanity that drew towards them instead of the Listeners. But that's just me.

Metalbinders for cohesion maybe in Part 2?

Thanks! I was going to include an analysis of how my theory relates to things like fabrials and non-Voidbinding Parshendi Investiture, but I feared it would overcomplicate things. Suffice to say, assuming my theory is correct, the other forms of Investiture on Roshar were not necessarily affected by Tanavast's little experiment. The Heralds and the Knights Radiant have to deal with the changed Surge arrangement because they derive their powers (directly or indirectly) from the Honorblades. I think Rayse might have decided to base his Void arrangement on Tanavast's system, though.

Perhaps I can write another appendix tomorrow regarding this, after I get some sleep. And... drats, I will have to do a major overhaul of my fabrial theory, won't I?

Edited May 30, 2014 by skaa

[Khyrindor]

Thanks, Khyrindor! Honor+Odium sounds very interesting. It could mean Justice (hatred of wrongdoing) or some other concept that indicates "righteous anger". Lift becoming Cultivation is possible if Cultivation's holder ends up dying, but I think Lift is more of a "Spook": a fun character who could become very powerful in the end, but not a Shard.

 

 

There was a thread about that recently. Lemmie see if I can find it . . . Nope, can't find it. It was saying basically what I said above. Given Dalinar's conversation with Hoid in TWoK about "Taking a man apart, bit by bit, and then putting him back together. And name him Gibbletish." Adonalsium was mentioned too. 

 

On the Lift thing, I think it's possible that she's becoming Cultivation's champion, like Vin was Preservation's. And she will be a viewpoint in the second half of SA, yes?

 

Are there Surges that can be considered as God Surges (analogous to the God Metals on Scadrial)? 

 

This one. And then a possible followup question would be "Progression and Adhesion, perhaps?"

Edited May 31, 2014 by Khyrindor

[skaa]

Given Dalinar's conversation with Hoid in TWoK about "Taking a man apart, bit by bit, and then putting him back together. And name him Gibbletish." Adonalsium was mentioned too.

 

On the Lift thing, I think it's possible that she's becoming Cultivation's champion, like Vin was Preservation's. And she will be a viewpoint in the second half of SA, yes?

Yes, Lift is one of the main characters of the second story arc, so she definitely has a big part to play. Also, I do think that a Bondsmith like Dalinar would be the perfect replacement for Tanavast.

 

This one. And then a possible followup question would be "Progression and Adhesion, perhaps?"

 

Looks like a plan. Good luck!

Edited May 31, 2014 by skaa

[Khyrindor]

Yes, Lift is one of the main characters of the second story arc, so she definitely has a big part to play. Also, I do think that a Bondsmith like Dalinar would be the perfect replacement for Tanavast.

 

Especially since he is bonding Tanavast's Shadow.

[skaa]

Appendix B: Cultivation, the Listeners, and Odium
 
I've theorized before that Cultivation's magic system consisted of all the non-human forms of spren bonds. This includes animal-spren symbiosis, spren attraction to gemstones (which people have discovered and used for fabrial science), and the spren-bonding of the Listeners.
 
Now, since there are ten Polestones, Cultivation obviously introduced the Essences of Sinew and Pulp into her system as well. That's why there are heliodor and emerald fabrials. But I think she limited the use of those Aether Essences, so the eight "normal Essences" probably dominates Cultivation's system
 
I also think that Cultivation had help from Honor (they're romantic partners, after all); he contributed his bond-based Investiture to allow the creatures she was "cultivating" to bond with spren. Cultivation had absolutely no use for the Honorblades, so the Surges in her system are still attached to their "proper" Essences. I will have to make a separate thread about fabrials to elaborate more on this point, but for now let's move on to the Listeners.
 
NutiketAiel posted a theory back in March that the ancestors of the Listeners inhabited Roshar before Honor and Cultivation arrived there. I think that's most likely the case. It would explain why the Stormfather calls them "the Ancient Ones". I believe the Ancient Ones were not bonded to any spren at all until that ability was given to them by Cultivation. They were basically in a spren-less form before Cultivation arrived, even though they were living with spren even before the Shattering of Adonalsium.
 
But while the new spren bonds gave the Ancient Ones a way to interact with the Surges, it was only a one-way interaction. The Surges molded the Ancient Ones, but the Ancient Ones could not harness the Surges. This limitation is because Surgebinding was the power of Honor, not Cultivation, and Honor did not want to grant this power to the Ancient Ones for a very good reason... that I will get to later.
 
When Honor opened up the door to Surgebinding for humans, the implications of this was not lost on the Ancient Ones. The humans were deemed worthy to control the Surges, but not they, the natives of this land, the ones closest to the spren. They felt insulted. Is it any surprise, then, that some of them turned to Odium when he arrived?
 
I will discuss Odium's relationship with the Ancient Ones in another thread.

 

Anyway, as I said earlier, Honor had a good reason not to allow the Ancient Ones to gain Surgebinding. It is because they were natives of Roshar, and therefore had a natural affinity to the Essence of Lucentia. They are the Listeners, after all, and sound is just another aspect of the Illumination Surge. This means every single Listener is a proto-Lightborn. Good thing Odium only gave the Listeners a corruption of Honor's system, eh? He seems unaware of the system that Honor replaced, the natural Surge-pairs of the Essences.
 
Until now. The Stormform Parshendi in WoR did something that was never done before. They summoned a storm. I'm thinking that previous Stormform Voidbringers could only use the voidish forms of Adhesion and Gravitation (being the Voidish Windrunners), but what Eshonai and her army did looked very much like some evil form of the Transportation Surge. I think Eshonai's army may have been the very first Stormlord Voidbringers.
 
Odium knows the secret now. The Everstorm has come. And through it, the Voidish versions of Division and Illumination shall be granted to the parshmen in the final transformation they will ever need.
 
Each Voidbringer the Everstorm makes shall wield all ten Voids.

Edited June 1, 2014 by skaa

[kaellok]

NO clue why someone in this thread got a downvote--I'm assuming it was on accident (it happens, especially with storming touchscreens and scrolling through) and have corrected this.

 

To the theory!  Can you please elaborate on exactly why you think the Surges have been messed with?  I'm more than a little sleep deprived right now, but reading through this thread and your other, all I can come up with is that the Essences are weird, and you're choosing to ignore the in-text argument from the Ars Arcanum that the Body Essences shouldn't be taken literally due to that being the more boring option.

 

You've put considerable time, thought, and energy into creating and developing this theory of yours, so I'm sure that there's more to it than that.  I just can't seem to find the actual foundation for your argument, and so everything built upon those basic premises seem like (super-interesting and well-detailed) fan fiction (of the best sort), rather than an actual explanation or theory of how things came to be.  Like one of the old What if...? comic books (What if...Ghostrider killed Daredevil?  What if...Spiderman Joined the Fantastic Four? and the like).  I loved them, and they were great, but they were also clearly separate and distinct.

[skaa]

NO clue why someone in this thread got a downvote--I'm assuming it was on accident (it happens, especially with storming touchscreens and scrolling through) and have corrected this.

I probably wasn't the one who got downvoted, but I'd like to commend you for such a charitable act. *upvotes*

 

To the theory! Can you please elaborate on exactly why you think the Surges have been messed with? I'm more than a little sleep deprived right now, but reading through this thread and your other, all I can come up with is that the Essences are weird, and you're choosing to ignore the in-text argument from the Ars Arcanum that the Body Essences shouldn't be taken literally due to that being the more boring option.

I think you misunderstood. The Ars Arcanum author thinks that the Body Focuses (e.g. inhalation, exhalation, soul, bone, hair, etc.) are mostly philosophical in nature. That means Pulp users (for example) won't necessarily use their hair, or Talus users their bones, to access Surgebinding powers. I get that, even though I shall note that inhalation, exhalation, and the eyes seem to be quite important in certain forms of Surgebinding. But that's beside the point. The Ars Arcanum author may not be omniscient (since he/she is just an in-world character), but we can assume that he/she is very knowledgeable.

Because of this, I consciously did not mention the Body Focuses in Part I of my theory above (though I admit I did mention the Spark=soul association in the previous thread), but I did use some other philosophical associations, particularly Vapor symbolizing darkness. I think that's acceptable, though. The Ten Essences is a very abstract notion that very clearly lends itself to symbolism. In the case of Rosharian Investiture, this symbolism becomes more concrete due to the obvious significance of the gemstone symbolism, as well as the association with Soulcasting properties.

In other words, the symbolism of the Essences is still important. That's why I found it very strange that certain Surges had no physical, cognitive, or spiritual association with their Essence. It just didn't feel like something Brandon would do. That's why I concluded that Surgebinding must have been tweaked somehow.

Anyway, let me just summarize my theory in a single paragraph: I believe there is a natural order of Surge-pairs associated with each of the eight "normal" Essences (as I described in Part I). This is the arrangement that humans would have by default if Tanavast gave Surgebinding to them directly. Due to certain concerns regarding this natural order (particularly the possibility that Odium will get a hold of Illumination-Division users, who could access all the Surges), Tanavast created the Honorblades, which are Invested objects based on the Essences but contain "unnatural" Surge-pairs designed by Tanavast to balance the power of Surgebinding. This is the form of Surgebinding that was later adopted by the spren of the Knights Radiant.

In other words, as I told Tempus and Khyrindor above, I don't really think the Surges have been messed with, just how Surgebinding is accessed. What Tanavast did was sort of a hack, a circumvention of Surgebinding, but he did not change the Surges themselves. I guess I should also mention that I think Adhesion and Progression are "God Surges" similar to the God Metals on Scadrial, and are therefore originally separate from "normal" Surgebinding.

 

You've put considerable time, thought, and energy into creating and developing this theory of yours, so I'm sure that there's more to it than that. I just can't seem to find the actual foundation for your argument, and so everything built upon those basic premises seem like (super-interesting and well-detailed) fan fiction (of the best sort), rather than an actual explanation or theory of how things came to be. Like one of the old What if...? comic books (What if...Ghostrider killed Daredevil? What if...Spiderman Joined the Fantastic Four? and the like). I loved them, and they were great, but they were also clearly separate and distinct.

Thanks, it's not every day that someone acknowledges the hard work involved in writing these posts (even though I do write them for fun). I'm fine with you interpreting this as an interesting "What if". Still, the theory does predict some things. For example, if Lift (a Lucentia user who was experimented on by the Nightwatcher) was suddenly able to use a Surge other than Friction and Progression, then that's evidence that Lightborn can exist. Also, if the Voidbringers that will be created by the Everstorm exhibit more than two major Voidish powers, then we'll know that the major speculation I put in Appendix B is likely correct.

Or, you know, we could just wait for Khyrindor to ask Brandon in August regarding this theory. The worst case scenario is that I'll have to abandon this theory in a few months. That's okay, though. I had fun writing it, anyway.

Edited June 1, 2014 by skaa

[kaellok]

 

I think you misunderstood. The Ars Arcanum author thinks that the Body Focuses (e.g. inhalation, exhalation, soul, bone, hair, etc.) are mostly philosophical in nature.

<snip>

In other words, the symbolism of the Essences is still important. That's why I found it very strange that certain Surges had no physical, cognitive, or spiritual association with their Essence. It just didn't feel like something Brandon would do. That's why I concluded that Surgebinding must have been tweaked somehow.

In other words, as I told Tempus and Khyrindor above, I don't really think the Surges have been messed with, just how Surgebinding is accessed. What Tanavast did was sort of a hack, a circumvention of Surgebinding, but he did not change the Surges themselves. I guess I should also mention that I think Adhesion and Progression are "God Surges" similar to the God Metals on Scadrial, and are therefore originally separate from "normal" Surgebinding.

 

Yup.  Clear misunderstanding/confusion on my part between Body Focus and Essences; I blame severe overwork and undersleep.

 

Looking at the chart, then, I think that the important columns are the Gemstone, the Essence, and the Soulcasting Property (since Soulcasting is dependent on the type of gemstone used.)

 

Lucentia's root can mean shining with a glowing light, translucent or clear, and also clarity (of thought).  This means that it has very strong denotation and connotation for light.  The meanings of illumination are directly tied to those of lucent: the act of lighting something up to make it more visible, and also the act of making something easier to understand.  Diamonds are also clear, or translucent, and are the gemstone associated with Lucentia.  This means that, based entirely upon the table in the Ars Arcanum it would make logical sense for the Essence Lucentia to be tied with Illumination.  I don't remember what the names of all the Heralds are and how they relate to the Orders of KR.  Vev is the number associated with Lucentia, and is based on one of the Heralds.  Do we know which one?  (I'm assuming the Edgedancers, but if it were Truthwatchers or Lightweavers, I think that would be more evidence in favor of your theory.)

 

My brain is having difficulties with non-concrete thoughts, (as in, it keeps saying that Illumination doesn't work the way you say because Lightweavers use it differently, even though if Illumination were paired with a different surge it would operate differently.  It's just being difficult like that, which is annoying, so I'll toy around with this idea more tomorrow.)

 

I do have two more questions though:

1. Do we know that Honor and Cultivation were romantic partners?  I don't remember reading anything like that from WoB, but it hasn't been anything I've searched for either.

2. I thought the Polestones referred to the 10 gemstones that are capable of holding Stormlight.  Just wanting to make sure that I'm right.

Edited June 1, 2014 by kaellok

[skaa]

Vev is the number associated with Lucentia, and is based on one of the Heralds.  Do we know which one?  (I'm assuming the Edgedancers, but if it were Truthwatchers or Lightweavers, I think that would be more evidence in favor of your theory.)

 

Vedel is the Herald of Lucentia, whose Honorblade has the Friction and Progression Surges, and whose Order is the Edgedancers. That's the thing, Tanavast gave her Friction and Progression, instead of the obvious Illumination (and the slightly less obvious Division). According to my theory, he did that to prevent Vedel (and the Edgedancers) from being what I termed "Lightborn".

 

 

1. Do we know that Honor and Cultivation were romantic partners?  I don't remember reading anything like that from WoB, but it hasn't been anything I've searched for either.

 

Here's one: 

 

StormAtlas

Were Cultivation and Honor romantically involved?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes.

 

Sweet, innit?

2. I thought the Polestones referred to the 10 gemstones that are capable of holding Stormlight.  Just wanting to make sure that I'm right.

Yes, the Polestones are the ten gemstones associated with the Essences. They can hold Stormlight, and they can also trap spren (a method used in fabrial creation).

Edited June 1, 2014 by skaa

[Shaggai]

First of all, this is awesome. I don't know how much I agree with it, but nevertheless, it's awesome. However, I don't think that the Illumination/Division Surgebinders would have access to all the Surges. AFAIK, Stormlight is all one color. The different apparent colors between gems are due to the coloration of the gems themselves. Any Surgebinder can draw Stormlight from any gem type, and to the best of my knowledge Stormlight when held by Surgebinders all looks the same.

[kaellok]

First of all, this is awesome. I don't know how much I agree with it, but nevertheless, it's awesome. However, I don't think that the Illumination/Division Surgebinders would have access to all the Surges. AFAIK, Stormlight is all one color. The different apparent colors between gems are due to the coloration of the gems themselves. Any Surgebinder can draw Stormlight from any gem type, and to the best of my knowledge Stormlight when held by Surgebinders all looks the same.

There's a WoB I'm searching for that somewhat, tangentially, sort of comes close to addressing this.  We know in-text that the cut or shape of a gem can affect how much Stormlight it can hold.  The WoB is that the color also plays a role, and that if it is off too much then it would be like a bad Allomantic blend and not work (this was specifically in regard to questions regarding gemstones that can come in multiple types of colors.)  This would allow for some crazy things with Soulcasting/Transformation (since the type of gemstone is specific to the type of transformation in Soulcasting), but I'm not sure how or if it would apply to Stormlight in general.

[skaa]

First of all, this is awesome. I don't know how much I agree with it, but nevertheless, it's awesome. However, I don't think that the Illumination/Division Surgebinders would have access to all the Surges. AFAIK, Stormlight is all one color. The different apparent colors between gems are due to the coloration of the gems themselves. Any Surgebinder can draw Stormlight from any gem type, and to the best of my knowledge Stormlight when held by Surgebinders all looks the same.

Thanks! Regarding the Lightborn weirdness, that's actually why I separated the theory into parts. Part I is supposed to be the part that makes most sense. People could espouse that without having to espouse the other weirder parts. They can even propose a different reason why the Surge arrangement was changed. In fact... yes, that's an awesome idea! I encourage you guys to propose alternatives to Parts II-IV. I want to see what your creative minds will come up with.

That being said, while the idea that Stormlight passing through a prism will still exit as white light is definitely intriguing, I think it's simpler to assume it will divide into different colors. That is just my humble opinion.

Edit: You do have a point about Surgebinders being able to use Stormlight from any gemstone, and that Stormlight leaking from Surgebinders seem white (except in Dalinar's visions, where Knights Radiant seem to glow with their Order's specific color). I'll have to think about this more.

Edited June 1, 2014 by skaa

[Shaggai]

Thanks! Regarding the Lightborn weirdness, that's actually why I separated the theory into parts. Part I is supposed to be the part that makes most sense. People could espouse that without having to espouse the other weirder parts. They can even propose a different reason why the Surge arrangement was changed. In fact... yes, that's an awesome idea! I encourage you guys to propose alternatives to Parts II-IV. I want to see what your creative minds will come up with.

That being said, while the idea that Stormlight passing through a prism will still exit as white light is definitely intriguing, I think it's simpler to assume it will divide into different colors. That is just my humble opinion.

Edit: You do have a point about Surgebinders being able to use Stormlight from any gemstone, and that Stormlight leaking from Surgebinders seem white (except in Dalinar's visions, where Knights Radiant seem to glow with their Order's specific color). I'll have to think about this more.

In his visions, it's the Shardplate glowing, not the Radiants. It seems to be a different effect. Stormlight doesn't really act like light, either, so it wouldn't split into colors.

[skaa]

There's a WoB I'm searching for that somewhat, tangentially, sort of comes close to addressing this.  We know in-text that the cut or shape of a gem can affect how much Stormlight it can hold.  The WoB is that the color also plays a role, and that if it is off too much then it would be like a bad Allomantic blend and not work (this was specifically in regard to questions regarding gemstones that can come in multiple types of colors.)  This would allow for some crazy things with Soulcasting/Transformation (since the type of gemstone is specific to the type of transformation in Soulcasting), but I'm not sure how or if it would apply to Stormlight in general.

 

Yes. For the sake of the others who might be curious, it's from this reddit IAMA thread:

 

I actually spent a long time working on this while building the world. You'd probably be amused by how long I spent on it. Chemically, many of them are actually very similar, as you pointed out. I tried doing the book originally with them all being different, not using any that were basically the same crystal with different colors, but it didn't work out. There weren't enough, and so I had to stretch to make it all work.

So, I went back to the original, and decided that color was enough to differentiate them. Just as steel and iron are very similar in the mistborn world, Emerald and Heliodor can be very similar--but produce different effects. The idea here is that the physical items (like the metals or the crystals) provide a key by which magical interaction occurs.

So, in a long winded answer, a gemstone with an impure color would be considered like a bad alloy in the Mistborn magic--it either wouldn't work at all, or would work very poorly. The chemical and color signature needs to be of a specific variety to provide the proper key to accessing the power of transformation.

 

There are currently two manifestations of Rosharian Investiture that seem to rely on gemstone color: fabrials and Soulcasting. I bet there's more things reliant on gemstone colors than those two.

 

 

In his visions, it's the Shardplate glowing, not the Radiants. It seems to be a different effect. Stormlight doesn't really act like light, either, so it wouldn't split into colors.

Those are valid theories, Shaggai.

Edited June 2, 2014 by skaa

[Khyrindor]

I agree with Shaggai that the Lightborn thing is a bit stretched. That said, I like the first part of the theory the most, anyway. The speculations are great, but the theory is the part with the evidence. Just my two cents. 

[skaa]

I agree with Shaggai that the Lightborn thing is a bit stretched. That said, I like the first part of the theory the most, anyway. The speculations are great, but the theory is the part with the evidence. Just my two cents.

That's okay. Part II is very likely going to be mostly wrong, but I still had fun writing it. I personally liked Part III the least, and I've been thinking of alternatives for it. Like, right now I'm looking for an explanation that somehow involves the Oathpact, but so far I've got nothing.

Hey, here's some stuff from the books and from WoBs that sort of coincide with Part I (and some of Part II) of my theory:

• The two Essences I connected to the Transportation Surge (Zephyr and Blood) are also the Essences of winds and floods, aspects of storms that tend to displace stuff. Wind blows things away, water washes things away. The Stormfather himself talks of transportation (although in a rather morbid context):

  I BRING YOU A STORM OF CLEANSING. IT WILL CARRY AWAY YOUR CORPSES. THIS IS ALL I CAN DO.

 

• Wyndle (Radiant Essence: Lucentia) leaves behind trails of vines that crumble to dust, calling to mind the Surge of decay, Division, which I believe ought to be connected to Lucentia.

   

• Wyndle is some sort of artistic crystal gardener in Shadesmar. He is the only Knight Radiant spren we've met so far who has an obvious affinity to art. The Illumination Surge is supposed to be meant for artistic, creative people. How great would it be for artistic Illumination users to be bonded to an artistic spren like Wyndle!

   

• Both Shallan's broken Soulcaster and Jasnah's fake Soulcaster were supposed to be special types that could transform anything into anything else. Note that even though Jasnah's was fake, it must've looked like the real thing, or else Shallan wouldn't have bothered switching it with hers. Jasnah's Soulcaster had three gemstones: a smokestone, a ruby, and a diamond. Coincidentally, I gave the Surge of Tranformation to Spark (ruby) and Vapor (smokestone). Lucentia (diamond) is the other Essence adjacent to Spark, although why it would be needed in a "perfect" Soulcaster I'm not sure. Perhaps Lucentia (light) and Vapor (darkness) act as filters for Soulcasting.

   

• Transportation, also considered as the Surge of Realmatic Transition, can transport objects from one Realm to another. The bonded bodies of dead spren (i.e. Shardblades) can be forcefully summoned by performing a ritual involving heartbeats. The heart pumps Blood, the Essence that I've associated with Transportation. Notice also that summoned Shardblades appear with beads of water on them, another Blood association.

   

• Jasnah mentions the "eight kinds of blood" in her brief Soulcasting lecture in WoK. I've always wondered why there weren't ten kinds of blood, but with this theory, the eight kinds of blood might stand for the eight "normal" Essences.

   

• The name of the Ghostbloods connote two Essences. Blood is the obvious one, but there's also an Essence for ghosts, if by "ghost" we mean "soul". This is the Essence of Spark. In Tanavast's system, Blood is the Essence of Illumination-Transformation Surgebinders. But in my theoretical system, it's Spark. Coincidence?

   

• Cryptics are seen on Shadesmar as wearing robes that seem "too stiff to be cloth". This could be a reference to the Tension Surge, which Brandon describes as making soft things like cloth rigid, and which I associate with the Essence Blood.

   

• Shallan's Memory ability has been described as involving a sort of tension (Blood):

  The city took shape beneath her fingers. She coaxed it free, line by line, scratch by scratch. What would she do without this? Tension bled from her body, as if released from her fingertips into the pencil.

  The memorized image of Kharbranth was gone from her head; she’d released it into her sketch. There was a sense of relaxation to that too. As if her mind was put under tension holding Memories until they could be used.

   

• Shin religion has peculiar tenets regarding stone, which the Shin regard as sacred. The Stone Shamans forbid treading on stone, for example. More importantly, they forbid breaking stone, such that they won't even use metal unless it was the product of Soulcasting (this is based on Thresh-son-Essan's words in WoK) rather than mining. Incidentally, talus is a form of broken stone, which is why I gave the Talus Essence the Surge of Division.

 

Now here's some more circumstantial evidence from other Cosmere series (spoilered, of course):

 

• Aon Ehe, the Aon of Fire, is associated with artists. Under my Surgebinding system, Illumination-Transformation Surgebinders (also associated with artists) would fall under the Spark Order.

   

• Hemalurgy, the ability to transport Spiritual aspects onto the Physical medium of metal and into the Spiritweb of another person, relies on moving blood. Similarly, I've assigned the Transportation Surge (the Surge of Realmatic Transition) to Blood.

Edited February 13, 2015 by skaa