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Mid-Range Game 40: A Defiant Rebellion


Elandera

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Hello, checking in! I’ve stuck my head in a few times here earlier today and didn’t have enough time to make a full post, but with the discussion that’s been started, I should certainly have enough material to do so now. Fair warning right now that I have not read Skyward, so if I do RP, it’ll be for that sweet sweet money, and not because I have any remote idea of how the setting works :P 

Going through some stuff in order, here are my impressions: 

18 hours ago, Kidpen said:

Hello everybody! I for one am pretty hyped for this game. At the moment the most suspicious person to me is (rolls d14) Abstrusity. @Abstrusity the fact that you haven't posted despite the cycle being up for a whole (checks time stamp) 7 minutes is rather suspicious. Any thoughts?

Kidpen’s chain of interaction with @Abstrusity looks odd to me; the “random” poke vote is something that tends to irk me, as I don’t see it as advancing discussion, and it’s often a vehicle for Eliminator distancing and a cheap way of getting interaction in-thread. Slight suspicion of Kidpen already for this post. 

11 hours ago, xinoehp512 said:

Also important to note is that this is (as far as I can see) the only power that will add a vote. If you use this ability more than once, you have a significantly higher chance of giving yourself away. On the flip side, if you do want to roleclaim, it should be fairly easy to prove who you are. Given that the village has essentially spare versions of this role, this might not be as bad of an idea as it would be in other games.

I would like to re-emphasise what Xino has said here, all of which are excellent points, with the addition that the best use of the Citizen’s vote is to break ties and should be used for maximum effect in close votes. If the Citizen is available around rollover, or close to it, that would be best to both use the role to its full effect and to avoid needlessly exposing it. 

11 hours ago, xinoehp512 said:

This role is similar to the First Citizen, with the main difference being the lack of an Heir. 

One key difference is that the vote removal is anonymous, which is more useful but also more dangerous; I’d expect one of each of these on each side, as the concealed nature of the vote manipulation makes it a good fit for the Elims, while the village just tends to have more roles to counterbalance Team Evil. Either way, I’d be wary of anyone claiming or using the Pilot role too flagrantly. 

6 hours ago, Araris Valerian said:

Elkanah, why are you asking all the roleless players to claim to you? It would be very helpful for the elims to know this, and relatively unhelpful for the village.

My main comment on roles/rules is that with the clarification on passing chits, the elims will almost certainly get one of the two pistols.

While I share your concern over Elkanah’s question, it should also be noted that villagers tend to be less risk-averse than Eliminators, and I wouldn’t expect an elim!Elkanah to blatantly ask for people’s roles. I’m a little curious why you thought this was immediately suspicious; Elims generally want to keep a hold on information, not share it, as that’s their most significant advantage. It looks like you’re jumping on Elkanah for a relatively NAI comment, so I’m curious why you sent one of your trademarked “stab votes” his way. 

You do make a good point about the Eliminators likely getting a pistol, but that’s not necessarily something we can afford to worry about; unless they began with a ridiculous amount of currency, and assuming a three-man team, it’d be hard for them to get it by next cycle without forgoing the faction kill to pass the chits and buy the gun, so we probably don’t have to worry about the extra kill until C4 at the earliest, by which time I hope at least one of the Elims is already dead. 

3 hours ago, xinoehp512 said:

I just realized that having an anonymous report feature is highly useful for a scanning role :P Do that, engineers! It doesn't matter who to- even an elim would have to report any message they received or fall under suspicion. You might as well add an anonymous signature of some sort, something you can use to prove it was you, just in case you need to roleclaim later.

Well, an Eliminator doesn’t have to tell anybody that they have this role, but otherwise yes, this is a helpful idea. :P 

3 hours ago, The_God_King said:

Well due to the hell that Elkanah has raised, I feel this may be necessary@Elkanah

Mind elaborating on what you mean here, @The_God_King

1 hour ago, Sart said:

Sam "Silver Fox" Navallo tried to examine the contraband problem. The rebels had a clear advantage when it came to funds, because they would be able to give chits to one another. This would allow them to illegally obtain a pistol, which would have lethal consequences. Was there anyway to stop that from happening? He had to come up with a plan. After all, he was the Silver Fox, known for his inventive stratagems. So, how could they prevent money from being handed over? If everyone had an alibi, they could confirm that no one was channeling funds. He thought through the item distribution. He was assuming no one had started with a hovercar as those were prohibitively expensive. Radio usage was easy enough to confirm. The other party just had to respond, and then that alibi would be set. Obviously, a pistol would have lethal side effects, so he was not in favor of resorting to violence yet. A light lash could apprehend criminals, so they would be useful if used properly. Plus, the person who was ensnared could confirm the action.

However, what of the people who started with no items? No one could confirm if they were funneling their money elsewhere. His eyes gleaned as he came up with a strategy. If those without items gave just 1 chit away to the person next to them, it would confirm that they weren't funneling all their money to their teammate. It was an imperfect stratagem, but it would do in a pinch. By using all available items, they would hamper the rebels enough to prevent needless bloodshed.

TLDR: If you have items, use them. If you don't, give 1 chit to the person below you in the player order.

Mmm. Not a huge fan of this idea; it surrenders information to the Elims if they’re dispersed in the playerlist, allows them coordination if they’re clumped, is dependent on 100% activity and compliance, and doesn’t create much public discussion. I’d rather have people with chits use their action to pass them to people they actually trust, or just save them to buy items. The plan also seems a bit mayor-y, and I’d rather that people have control over their actions. If we’re careful with our lynches and actions, one gun falling into Eliminator hands shouldn’t decide the game. 

Both Elkanah and the Elkanah wagon feel off to me, I’d rather not get Araris killed D1 again even though I didn’t like his post, and I want to hear back from Kidpen and Abstrusity before looking more into their votes. I also have vague village reads on Kynedath and Xino, the two other main contributors to discussion, and would like to get Sart’s reply before judging him for his strategy. As such:

11 hours ago, StrikerEZ said:

Oh yeah, I signed up for this game. :P

I’ve got a pretty busy day, so I probably won’t have time to refresh myself on the rules and post until tonight. Don’t lynch me while I’m gone, okay? :P

No mercy, Striker. :P (Once you get the chance, please do check in. This is just my version of a placeholder vote as I wait for people to meaningfully respond to the thread again so I can form better opinions.)

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6 minutes ago, Fifth Scholar said:

Mind elaborating on what you mean here, @The_God_King

haha he started the whole speaking in code!

Cobb walked into his office to see stacks upon stacks of encrypted papers. Memos filled with random letters, papers written in something called morse, and official military documents that had to be decrypted with something called an "Enigma Machine". Curse this paranoia! Cobb thought, I need a drink!

I did it mostly for flavor  

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15 minutes ago, Fifth Scholar said:

While I share your concern over Elkanah’s question, it should also be noted that villagers tend to be less risk-averse than Eliminators, and I wouldn’t expect an elim!Elkanah to blatantly ask for people’s roles. I’m a little curious why you thought this was immediately suspicious; Elims generally want to keep a hold on information, not share it, as that’s their most significant advantage. It looks like you’re jumping on Elkanah for a relatively NAI comment, so I’m curious why you sent one of your trademarked “stab votes” his way. 

I know this, and was thinking about it when I posted. It's just that it seems silly to me to dismiss someone for doing something that, in a vacuum, would be more profitable to the elim team. In all probability Elkanah is a villager just for the reason you posted, so I think this one turned out to be more of a poke vote than a stab vote (fortunately, at least I have enough of a reputation that people can't tell which is which :D). One of these days, someone will be an elim, say something like what Elkanah said, and get themselves a free village read (you say its NAI, but I don't agree). That's partly why I was rather aggressive about this.

Bother, now I need to find someone else to take out. I think I'll stick onto The_God_King for now, for jumping onto Elkanah after me.

Edit: I've been ninja'd, but I'm not really satisfied by the given explanation.

Edited by Araris Valerian
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8 minutes ago, Araris Valerian said:

Bother, now I need to find someone else to take out. I think I'll stick onto The_God_King for now, for jumping onto Elkanah after me.

I didn't even notice he had a vote, to be honest! I feel like voting on him because I RPed despising the code was a pretty good reason

 

edit: to be honest I was having a bit of fun. First-time role-playing!!! Elkanah

Edited by The_God_King
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52 minutes ago, Fifth Scholar said:

Mmm. Not a huge fan of this idea; it surrenders information to the Elims if they’re dispersed in the playerlist, allows them coordination if they’re clumped, is dependent on 100% activity and compliance, and doesn’t create much public discussion. I’d rather have people with chits use their action to pass them to people they actually trust, or just save them to buy items. The plan also seems a bit mayor-y, and I’d rather that people have control over their actions. If we’re careful with our lynches and actions, one gun falling into Eliminator hands shouldn’t decide the game. 

Both Elkanah and the Elkanah wagon feel off to me, I’d rather not get Araris killed D1 again even though I didn’t like his post, and I want to hear back from Kidpen and Abstrusity before looking more into their votes. I also have vague village reads on Kynedath and Xino, the two other main contributors to discussion, and would like to get Sart’s reply before judging him for his strategy. As such:

It is a bit of a mayor plan, I admit. I wanted something that would start discussion, so I tried to come up with a plan to debate. The Elim kill is a role action, meaning that they can both pass their chit and make the kill at the same time. Plus, if they get chits for RP or discussion, they might be able to buy the gun Cycle 2. That's fairly quick, and that concerns me. It's not game breaking by any means, but it definitely gives them an advantage. You do bring up a good point that the plan requires 100% activity, which is probably a fatal flaw.

Speaking of inactivity, I saw Shanerockes lurking in the thread, but he didn't post anything. It's worth a poke vote.

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First off, I’d like to say it’s a good thing that this game is a mid-range because the last QF moved by way too fast for me with my class schedule and stuff.

Second, this post is gonna be short because it’s getting late already. :P

Third, I have a tentative trust of Elkanah. Not because what he said seems village-y to me, but the way he said it certainly does. Also, @Araris Valerian @Fifth Scholar (tagging both of you because I can’t remember which of you said the thing I’m responding to :P), there is nothing stopping an elim from gathering information publicly. I did it just a couple games back, and if it weren’t for me tangling myself up with Sart early on in the game, I think it would’ve worked nearly perfectly.

Fourth, something about Fifth’s post feels off to me, but I can’t quite put my finger on it. I’m gonna wait and see what other people say (and more from Fifth specifically) before I vote.

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I don't have time for a full analysis at the moment, but re-reading the thread makes me feel just a bit queasy about Elkanah. In my experience, exclusive communication like codes builds trust, baseless trust. That is the friend of the eliminator. But for now, that's just speculation. No one.

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And here I go with the hypocrisy! The hidden codes I posted previously are in this box (don't open if you still want to find them):

Spoiler

tenno1.thumb.png.12ee546eb5357303fe726187f3e81b6f.png

tenno2.thumb.png.652654891cdd463cc334099c5770dc60.png

You'll want a bit of knowledge before you decode them.

Refer above, to splits in my communication.

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Okay, hmm. Let's give this a shot.

On 2/17/2020 at 2:20 AM, Kidpen said:

Hello everybody! I for one am pretty hyped for this game. At the moment the most suspicious person to me is (rolls d14) Abstrusity. @Abstrusity the fact that you haven't posted despite the cycle being up for a whole (checks time stamp) 7 minutes is rather suspicious. Any thoughts?

Not quite as suspicious as keeping a poke vote on someone for nearly the entire cycle. But for now, I'm willing to believe it's just inactivity.

On 2/17/2020 at 10:09 AM, Abstrusity said:

@KidpenYou got me there. I suppose my fate is sealed then? :P

However, I'm curious as to where you got a d14. They aren't manufactured by any group I know of. At least... not within the law.

I'm calling you out, Kidpen! For illegal possession of dice whose side count is not sanctioned by the Treaty of Skymaw, I hereby motion for your summary and painful execution. Your machinations will die today. There will be no mercy. 

Kind of suspicious, but probably NAI. It just feels too obvious for eliminators.

21 hours ago, Elkanah said:

Can anyone confirm to me that there are non named players this game? I don't recommend you do it in thread, but if you have a radio and no role let me know via PM. Or better! Put it in the thread in code! The harder the code the better. (But still crackable plz);p.

Again, suspicious- but too obvious a move. Eliminators would have to be gutsy to do something like this, especially since it runs the risk of skewing other's opinions towards them negatively.

20 hours ago, Araris Valerian said:

Elkanah, why are you asking all the roleless players to claim to you? It would be very helpful for the elims to know this, and relatively unhelpful for the village.

My main comment on roles/rules is that with the clarification on passing chits, the elims will almost certainly get one of the two pistols.

Probably 3 elims, and we have a decent chance at eventually getting one of them for free, due to the Gunner role (although I suppose this may not be in the game).

17 hours ago, The_God_King said:

Well due to the hell that Elkanah has raised, I feel this may be necessary@Elkanah

13 hours ago, Araris Valerian said:

I know this, and was thinking about it when I posted. It's just that it seems silly to me to dismiss someone for doing something that, in a vacuum, would be more profitable to the elim team. In all probability Elkanah is a villager just for the reason you posted, so I think this one turned out to be more of a poke vote than a stab vote (fortunately, at least I have enough of a reputation that people can't tell which is which :D). One of these days, someone will be an elim, say something like what Elkanah said, and get themselves a free village read (you say its NAI, but I don't agree). That's partly why I was rather aggressive about this.

Bother, now I need to find someone else to take out. I think I'll stick onto The_God_King for now, for jumping onto Elkanah after me.

Edit: I've been ninja'd, but I'm not really satisfied by the given explanation.

A questionable reason for a vote, made more suspicious by the fact that it brings the vote count on Elkanah. His reasoning for the vote plus the withdrawal feel quite suspicious. He is a new player, however, so I can believe him for now, but...

Araris's reasoning seems reasonable. It all seems in line with how I could expect a talented player to act, regardless of whether they were village or elim. The fact that Elkanah had a vote on him already, though- even if it was just a poke-vote- feels... odd.

Overall, this almost feels like the elims trying to get away with a lynch. Three votes on one person is not a negligible number. The fact that once put under scrutiny it basically vanished doesn't really help it any.

The problem is, the excuses that Araris and The_God_King made seem legitimate enough by themselves. I'm having a hard time convincing myself to vote for either of them... but the whole situation just doesn't feel coincidental. I don't know. I think I'll have to revisit this later in the cycle. Hopefully more information will have become available by then.

Edited by xinoehp512
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On 2/17/2020 at 8:09 AM, Abstrusity said:

@KidpenYou got me there. I suppose my fate is sealed then? :P

However, I'm curious as to where you got a d14. They aren't manufactured by any group I know of. At least... not within the law.

I'm calling you out, Kidpen! For illegal possession of dice whose side count is not sanctioned by the Treaty of Skymaw, I hereby motion for your summary and painful execution. Your machinations will die today. There will be no mercy. 

Oh shoot! You've figured me out! I never suspected that my possession of illegal dice would be what brought me down! I suppose now I'm obligated to Abstrucity if I want to live.

Anyways hi. Give me a second to read.

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I can see how a day one lynch is effective in starting real discussion and allowing analysis to happen. However that being said, it feels unfair and a bit mean, so for that reason I will be abstaining from voting this cycle. 

The gunner would be a pretty powerful role for the eliminators to have, so if they do have it the other 2-3 eliminators likely wouldn't have as strong of roles to keep the balance. 
With the Heirs having the ability to inherit skills, it seems likely that there would be at least two of them, and one on each side of the table. 
However with fourteen players, six roles, and no guarantee of players who are role-less, there will be others that are doubled. The gunner I feel is unlikely for that, just because of how powerful it is. 

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Well, I think I understand The_God_King a little better. It doesn’t make me any happier with his vote, but it makes me less suspicious. 

I’m fairly sure the gunner role is intended to “revenge kill” an eliminator. Given that the elims almost certainly will get one pistol from the supply, giving them a second one for free seems rather imbalanced.

I’m going to vote on Xino for hedging in his last post. Regardless of whether I agree with his arguments, pointing out suspicion of someone while not voting yourself is suspicious in my eyes, particularly on Day 1 where the lynch is usually decided by some minor and possibly baseless suspicion.

I think I’d probably vote on Striker, Abstrusity, or Fifth for similar reasons. We don’t (or at least I don’t) have enough time in the cycle to not vote immediately off a minor suspicion. I may not have time to get back and change my vote this cycle.

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2 hours ago, xinoehp512 said:

A questionable reason for a vote, made more suspicious by the fact that it brings the vote count on Elkanah. His reasoning for the vote plus the withdrawal feel quite suspicious. He is a new player, however, so I can believe him for now, but...

I made a mistake and RPed with a vote. I’m not new to mafia (just forum mafia and RPing ) so I’m not totally out of the loop but lesson learned. Also I’m adamantly opposed to day one lynch but I got in a lot of trouble last game for opposing it so I decidedly to try to switch which also failed. 

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Updated vote count:

Kidpen (1) Abstrusity

Striker (1) Fifth Scholar

Xinoehp (1) Araris Valerian

Shanerocks (1) Sart

 

 

On 2020-02-17 at 8:09 AM, Abstrusity said:

I'm calling you out, Kidpen! For illegal possession of dice whose side count is not sanctioned by the Treaty of Skymaw, I hereby motion for your summary and painful execution. Your machinations will die today. There will be no mercy. 

 

6 hours ago, Abstrusity said:

I don't have time for a full analysis at the moment, but re-reading the thread makes me feel just a bit queasy about Elkanah. In my experience, exclusive communication like codes builds trust, baseless trust. That is the friend of the eliminator. But for now, that's just speculation. No one.

@Abstrusity I think you're trying to not vote for anyone, but it looks like you haven't officially taken your vote off of Kidpen. Could you clarify your voting intentions?

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2 minutes ago, Abstrusity said:

Everyone No one.

That work? I think I'm not going to vote this cycle unless someone whose innocence is certain is coming under fire. 

Standard procedures for retracting a vote in SE are to post the players name who you're voting for in green. For example Abstrusity Abstrusity. At that point voting for nobody would be implied since you don't have a vote on anyone.

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Hi yes hello I am back.

18 hours ago, Fifth Scholar said:

Mmm. Not a huge fan of this idea; it surrenders information to the Elims if they’re dispersed in the playerlist, allows them coordination if they’re clumped, is dependent on 100% activity and compliance, and doesn’t create much public discussion

While I was reading through yesterday, I thought this as well but couldn't say anything about it cuz work. That's really all the thoughts I had while I was reading and I don't have a real read on anyone. I might pop back in later if there is more to discuss or I get a better read on some people.

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4 minutes ago, StrikerEZ said:

@Zillah Your vote count was technically wrong. I expressed that I’d probably vote on Fifth, but didn’t actually vote.

But I will now because I don’t have much else to go on and might forget to check again later. Fifth Scholar.

That vote count is saying that fifth voted on you, not that you voted on fifth, It was correct.

At this point it's a 5-way tie, each person with 1 vote on them.

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2 hours ago, Zillah said:

Hmm. . .haven't heard from @Rathmaskalor @Coda as of yet. 

 

 

Whew, apparently when you take a week off of work, you have a lot to catch up on when you're back in the office.
-
First off, welcome back to a couple people who have missed a few games (xino, shanerockes, fifth to be specific)!
-
I'm not going to jump on the 'analyze all the roles' train at this point.  I think I missed the window where I could contribute anything useful that hasn't already been mentioned.
-
I do think I'm going to try to throw out a 149-word RP in this post...just because.  (Yes, I know it will be detrimental to my chits standing, but will Elandera actually count the words?)  You know, I think I'm going to do 149 words but then include at least one contraction so there's the implication that I could have hit 150 if I'd just been more wordy...

(Note, I finally did get around to reading Skyward AND Starsight...loved them)

~~
Rath hated the Krell.  Most people were afraid, but he hated them.  With a passion.  It wasn't that they were trying to kill him every time he was in the sky.  It wasn't even the friends he'd lost throughout the years.  In fact, he didn't know why he hated them.  He'd tried to reflect from time to time, determine what he hated about them...but that didn't work very well when every time he thought about them, he felt a sense of rage rising up inside him.  For now, he just looked forward to the next time he'd be in the air, fighting to save his people and destroy the object of his hatred.

For now, Rath had larger problems to worry about.  It wasn't long ago he'd been hearing inflammatory comments about the DDF.  People were claiming they should be treated like everyone else?!  He'd never imagined such blasphemy?!
~~

*Ninja 1*

Quote

Looks like there is a reward for being active, intriguingly enough. I don't think I've ever seen people getting rewarded for contributing to discussion before... although it really does seem like it would be a good idea, so I have no idea why not.

-xino

The Stormlight anon game from last year? had some fun mechanics regarding activity and RP.  *Ninja 2*
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TBH, not a huge fan of speaking in code here...just adds extra time to trying to decipher what's going on.  I guess there could be a purpose once the anonymous messages start coming through, but for now, I have enough stuff to read through and analyze.
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Current vote count by what I see (Didn't count Kynedath's vote/retraction on Abstrusity):

  • Abstrusity (0) - Kidpen, Elkanah
  • Kidpen (0) - Abstrusity, Elkanah
  • Elkanah (0) - Araris, TGK
  • Striker (2) - Fifth, Rath
  • TGK (0) - Araris
  • shane (1) - Sart
  • xino (1) - Araris
  • Fifth (1) - Striker

I only count 4 people with vote?  Did I miss something (or were you not removing Abstrusity's vote Striker?  Unsure how Elandera is going to count that, figured I'd lean toward 'give the new player some leeway' being the result)
-
I was considering a Sart vote prior to the ninjas I see there, but the interaction between Fifth and Striker overall seems a bit off...  I'm going to lean towards Striker for now.

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