rammbleings of a deranged mind Cultivations influence RoW Update![Disscuss]

[Frustration Nightwatcher]

So I was re-reading Oathbringer when things started to come together I'll put this into chronological order.

**note all spoiler tags are used on WoB to shorten the length**

 

First Skybreakers and Nale

Nale seems to have an uncanny ability to find Radiants, even going so far as to turn, to Lift before she starts using Lifelight, without reguard to distance as other investiture detection we've seen. Nale knew about Lift, Gavilar, Tien, Shallan, The Stump, and The Shoe Maker. With no explination(Baring DS) And only the ones who were needed by Cultivation(Or because of their actions) did they live. Intrestingly Nale Misses Kaladin despite being in the same place as Tien, and even Taravangian discovering his wereabouts, he likewise ignores Dalinar, despite finding a way to kill Gavilar, and misses Shallan(although her killing Testement was likely responsible). So I think Cultivation was leading that. 

 

Renarin, Gyls & Sja-anat

The amount of Corrupt Radiantspren surprises me, they last seven thousand years and only now allow themselves to be corrupted, why? I believe Cultivation wants Voidish Illumination to spread to further muddy Odium's sight and protect the Radiants from Odium's manipulation.

 

Spoiler

Questioner

So the scene at the end of Oathbringer, when Odium is confronting Taravangian and he uses futuresight to expand upon the Diagram, we have this blacked out section with Renarin's name linked to it.

Brandon Sanderson

Yes.

Questioner

Is that because Renarin's abilities interfere with Odium's futuresight similar to how electrum interferes with atium?

Brandon Sanderson

Any time that someone else is seeing the future in the cosmere, it's going to have ripples against your ability. Like they are-- you can't-- It's the same sort of thing that if-- someone who has access to atium is going to mess up anyone else's futuresight in any way, because once you use that it's going to cause you to act differently, which then-- And remember futuresight is not very good in the cosmere anyway. But yeah, it's just gonna mess things up.

Skyward Seattle signing (Nov. 10, 2018)

The blacking of the words also was used as a contingency to get Taravangian close to Odium as we have seen.

 

Timing, and other unlikely chances

Things are falling together at this time for a reason,  Taln broke just as the radiants return in any substantial number and when the first bondsmith in millennia is around. Additionally the only working Oathgate happens to be the one the heroes have access to, yeah that was planned Cultivation planned all of this. 

 

Cultivation herself 

Cultivation has personally seen 3 people who came to the Nightwatcher(Dalanar, Tanavangain and Lift) which she hasn't done in centuries.

All of whom where large peices of what she needed, 

Additionally on page 717 of RoW Venli mentions hearing a Pure Tone of Roshar, I doubt it's Odium's and Honor doesn't make sense, I believe Cultivation is growing her, so she will rescue Rlain, and give the others an ally.

and on page 837 Chiri-Chiri remarks that a Rhythm told her she could no longer do easy things, Likely Cultivation

 

Due to recent event's I can no longer ignore Kaladin's part in this despite calls against it

Kaladin, he is here for this WoB

Spoiler

Winds Alight (paraphrased)

In SA the Stormfather refers to several people as "Child of Honor", but only Kaladin as "Child of Tanavast". Is there significance to that?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

Yes, there is.

Stuttgart signing (May 17, 2019)

I think this is in reference to these WoB

Spoiler

Paladin Brewer (paraphrased)

Are Shard Vessels able to have children?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

Yes they are.

Paladin Brewer (paraphrased)

Even Sazed, with his body being a eunuch?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

Yes, though technically all of Scadrial are the children of Preservation and Ruin.

Librarypalooza (Feb. 27, 2016)

Spoiler

StormAtlas (paraphrased)

Were Cultivation and Honor romantically involved?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

Yes.

Rithmatist Albuquerque signing (May 22, 2013)

Additionally these WoB stick out to me as being off.

Spoiler

 

LadyKnightRadiant

Kaladin not ever feeling the Thrill. Is there a reason for that?

Brandon Sanderson

There is a reason for that... What do you think?

LadyKnightRadiant

I think it's because he's too good and too pure for this world.

Brandon Sanderson

That is, I would say-- Let's just say that there are points where Kaladin could have felt the Thrill. But once he had the attention of certain nebulous spren, somebody was watching out for him.

LadyKnightRadiant

That was gonna be my second. I thought "He's probably just too good for it," and then I was like, "It's probably Syl's fault."

Brandon Sanderson

There's a bit of a war inside of Kaladin.

Skyward Denver signing (Nov. 15, 2018)

Potentially nothing but Perhapse a hint at something deeper and given this I'm inclined to think so

Spoiler

Shardlet (paraphrased)

In response to the RAFO I complained that I didn't even get to my third question which was, "Does Kaladin feel the Thrill?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

*Laughs* No he does not. Kaladin is "immune" to the Thrill.

SpoCon 2013 (July 10, 2013)

 

Spoiler

Questioner

Would Dalinar or Kaladin like Kelsier?

Brandon Sanderson

You know, I think they both would have their issues with Kelsier.

Questioner

'Cause he's more of a rogue.

Brandon Sanderson

It would really depend on what situation they were in. But I think Dalinar would not approve of his methods. And I think Kaladin would empathize with him, but at the end would not approve either. To Kaladin he would probably represent the things that Kaladin kind of wishes he would do, but is too moral to do. And that would be a dangerous thing for Kaladin.

Idaho Falls signing (Dec. 29, 2018)

Dangerous why? Dangerous for his charecter potentially but it could be a severing from Honor.

 

And recently Kaladin was one of two Radiants to retain contiousness during the occupation of Urithiru, and I don't buy him being almost 4th ideal and having Adhesion, The Stormfather himself worries for Dalinar, who is far more powerful, and has Adhesion himself as he would have to overcome the Sibling, The only other person who stays contious is Lift, who was touched by Cultivation in a powerful manner. Kal was touched himself. 

Kaladin being the Son of Tanavast is mentioned in every book, and he's done things we haven't seen anyone else do, feeling the winds in WoR, The Stormfather considers stoping for him, despite him not being bonded to him. Additionally on page 579 of RoW Kal is allerted to The Pursuer without knowing why.

On Page 622 the Sibling comments on Kaladin's closeness with his Father, Honor, Tanavast.

New WoB

Spoiler

Nouf

What does it mean that Kaladin is close to Honor, and how did that factor into him staying conscious while every other Windrunner in the tower didn't?

 

Brandon Sanderson

The nuts and bolts answer is, Kaladin basically was in a place where he could say the next oath, and should have said the next oath, and indeed knew the next oath, and it was on his tongue, and he refused to. So basically he was as close to being the next level of Knights Radiant as a person could humanly get, because everyone considered him ready except himself. He even knew that he was ready, but by saying it, it would require him to give up something that was precious to him, which is his feeling guilty. A precious part of his identity as he saw it. And he would have to relinquish that. That's the bulk of it.

The other bulk of it is, the level to which Kaladin tries to protect, the level to which Kaladin exemplifies the Ideals of the Windrunners, and indeed of the way that Honor would have all Knights Radiant act, is so over the top, in alignment with the way Honor would like it to be, that it could even be considered unhealthy. Remember, Honor didn't always encourage healthy relationships with things like the power, particularly later in his existence. So either way, Kaladin is just kind of extra aligned with that intent, if that makes any sense.

 

https://wob.coppermind.net/events/452/#e14523

 

Anything I missed would be nice, critic welcome.

Edited March 11, 2021 by Frustration

[Diomedes Gyorn]

I like your theory. Kaladin`s name means he, who is born to eternity. Kalad means eternity, in being born unto. 

That would support your theory.

Edited February 8, 2020 by Diomedes

[Frustration Nightwatcher]

22 minutes ago, Diomedes said:

I like your theory. Kaladin`s name means he, who is born to eternity. Kalad means eternity, in being born unto. 

That would support your theory.

Thank you for that I would have missed it but it is something I do in my writing(recreational of course nothing published, that's the dream)

Edit: to future readers here is the WoB

Spoiler

Questioner

Did Kaladin’s name come from anywhere in particular?

Brandon Sanderson

No. I'm sure the word paladin was in the back of my head, but it's not like he shares much with like an actual paladin. His name was Merin in the initial version and it was-- it didn't work, he wasn't a Merin and all the fans-- all the readers were like "this name just doesn't work" so I spent years hunting for the right name for him, and that's the one I ended up with. It's really based-- it's Kalak, which is the Storm-- not really the Stormfather but people y'know. Most of the names you'll find are based off one of the Heralds in some way. So he's KALA + DIN, Kalak and din is a suffix.

Isaac Stewart

We do have a meaning for it though. Can I tell them the meaning?

Brandon Sanderson

Ehhh, have we canonized it?

Isaac Stewart

We have canonized it, and we have told people before.

Brandon Sanderson

Then yeah.

Isaac Stewart

It means "Born unto Eternity".

Brandon Sanderson

...I mean, it means that in the same way that names mean something, like my name means-- But when they're naming him that they aren't thinking that. What they are doing is picking one of the Heralds and making a name out of it. But my name technically means "Dweller by the Beacon", but really what it means is "He was the son of Alexander".

Holiday signing (Dec. 12, 2015)

 

Edited February 8, 2020 by Booknerd

[RShara Unmade]

Quote

Zeamay

Are Lirin and Hesina Kaladin's biological parents?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes.

/r/books AMA 2015 (June 10, 2015)

 

[Frustration Nightwatcher]

On 2/8/2020 at 3:06 PM, RShara said:

 

And @RShara right on time to ruin my theory and my day. Time to re-work that into this, doesn't destroy everything but that is a set back. (If frustration was a shard I would have ascended right there) no hard feelings but man I thought I had it.

Edit

Alright taking this WoB into account we run into some problems, but there are possible work arounds perhaps we had Cultivation take the power or spiritweb of the Shardaic child and tied it to Kaladin, or possibly this WoB could be unreliable, what was Brandon supposed to say if he said anything other than yes, that would immediately draw suspicion. Or I could be wrong altogether and the Kaladin thread of this theory would have to be cut.

Edited February 10, 2020 by Booknerd

[UnfortunatelyNamed Steel Inquisitor]

On 2/8/2020 at 5:37 PM, Booknerd said:

Alright taking this WoB into account we run into some problems, but there are possible work arounds perhaps we had Cultivation take the power or spiritweb of the Shardaic child and tied it to Kaladin, or possibly this WoB could be unreliable, what was Brandon supposed to say if he said anything other than yes, that would immediately draw suspicion. Or I could be wrong altogether and the Kaladin thread of this theory would have to be cut.

He could have RAFO'd it. He has RAFO'd seemingly obvious things like this before, and even if it did draw suspicion, it wouldn't be too bad, as most of the fandom would just assume he is trying to throw us off. Why would Cultivation do that? why not just use the original child, Cultivate them to be like Kaladin?

[Frustration Nightwatcher]

2 minutes ago, Nameless said:

He could have RAFO'd it. He has RAFO'd seemingly obvious things like this before, and even if it did draw suspicion, it wouldn't be too bad, as most of the fandom would just assume he is trying to throw us off. Why would Cultivation do that? why not just use the original child, Cultivate them to be like Kaladin?

Good point. Death of the original child would be my best answer to that but even then it's a strech.

[Kingsdaughter613 Prime]

Cultivation could have caused the pregnancy.

[Frustration Nightwatcher]

3 hours ago, Kingsdaughter613 said:

Cultivation could have caused the pregnancy.

That, is an excellent Idea, thank you.

[Chaos Adonalsium]

Upon request of the OP, we have moved this to the RoW boards.

[Frustration Nightwatcher]

Thanks Chaos

[Stormtide_Leviathan Silent Gatherer]

On 2/6/2020 at 9:35 PM, Ookla The Frustrated said:

Kaladin was one of two Radiants to retain contiousness during the occupation of Urithiru

This is an incredibly minor thing, but I don't know why people keep overlooking the fact that Venli was also a radiant awake during the occupation. It bothers me way more than it should lol

[Frustration Nightwatcher]

4 minutes ago, Stormtide_Leviathan said:

This is an incredibly minor thing, but I don't know why people keep overlooking the fact that Venli was also a radiant awake during the occupation. It bothers me way more than it should lol

Point taken, but she was also a regal, a Listener, and at one point in close contact with Odium

[Darth_Hel Forescout]

Kaladin could be the descendant of their child. Perhaps all descendants of Tanavast are drawn toward strict codes like Kaladin and Lirin.

[Suffot Spearman]

3 hours ago, Ookla The Frustrated said:

Point taken, but she was also a regal, a Listener, and at one point in close contact with Odium

Isn’t she using void light to fuel her surges as well? There is a lot going on with Ol’ Ven. 

[Suffot Spearman]

On 2/8/2020 at 2:37 PM, Ookla The Frustrated said:

Alright taking this WoB into account we run into some problems, but there are possible work arounds perhaps we had Cultivation take the power or spiritweb of the Shardaic child and tied it to Kaladin, or possibly this WoB could be unreliable, what was Brandon supposed to say if he said anything other than yes, that would immediately draw suspicion. Or I could be wrong altogether and the Kaladin thread of this theory would have to be cut.

 

I guess the big trouble here would be that Honor died like 1000 years before Kaladin was born. I could buy into shards temporarily taking a human vessel to make offspring, but the dude was dead. 
 

Edit: Without being crass, I suppose Cultivation could have held on to that seed until it was time to plant it...

Edited December 5, 2020 by Suffot

[Shuffel Idrian Monk]

The interesting thing with cultivation is what is she doing with the night watcher?

She's training her to be more human without her bonding.

What plan does cultivation have for the next bondsmith? This is the big part of her plan imo. 

She has been training the night watcher for a very very long time

 

[Blackwarder Forescout]

We have no idea about Hesina or Lirin origins. Would be interesting to see how the stormfather refers to them to little Ordeon.

 

Edited December 22, 2021 by Blackwarder
A year to notice a typo, gahhhhhhhhhhh

[Frustration Nightwatcher]

5 hours ago, Shuffel said:

The interesting thing with cultivation is what is she doing with the night watcher?

She's training her to be more human without her bonding.

What plan does cultivation have for the next bondsmith? This is the big part of her plan imo. 

She has been training the night watcher for a very very long time

 

Agreed, I'll edit this post later when I gather necessary evidence.

Edit: Nightwatcher and spren

All corrupted spren have been Mistspren.

Shallan has been given two critics,

And Wyndle was given a Radiant against his choice.

Now what do all these spren have in common?

Their orders are all aligned with Cultivation.

More later

Edited December 5, 2020 by Ookla The Frustrated

[Shuffel Idrian Monk]

19 hours ago, Ookla The Frustrated said:

Agreed, I'll edit this post later when I gather necessary evidence.

Edit: Nightwatcher and spren

All corrupted spren have been Mistspren.

Shallan has been given two critics,

And Wyndle was given a Radiant against his choice.

Now what do all these spren have in common?

Their orders are all aligned with Cultivation.

More later

I like this a lot! Can't wait to see your post

[skewh Darkeyes]

23 hours ago, Ookla The Frustrated said:

All corrupted spren have been Mistspren.

All who we have seen bond so far have been Mistspren, but there are the "touched" Honorspren in RoW, not to mention whatever spren Sja-Anat was going to send for Mraize. 

[Stormtide_Leviathan Silent Gatherer]

2 hours ago, skewh said:

not to mention whatever spren Sja-Anat was going to send for Mraize.

I’m pretty sure rlain ended up bonding the one who was sent to Mraize, so it was a mistspren 

[Karger Unmade]

On 2/6/2020 at 9:35 PM, Ookla The Frustrated said:

Kaladin being the Son of Tanavast is mentioned in every book, and he's done things we haven't seen anyone else do, feeling the winds in WoR, The Stormfather considers stoping for him, despite him not being bonded to him. Additionally on page 579 of RoW Kal is allerted to The Pursuer wihtou knowing why.

Quote

Zeamay

Are Lirin and Hesina Kaladin's biological parents?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes.

/r/books AMA 2015 (June 10, 2015)

 

[Frustration Nightwatcher]

5 minutes ago, Karger said:

 

You're about ten month late with that.

[Karger Unmade]

1 minute ago, Ookla The Frustrated said:

You're about ten month late with that.

Sorry.  I did not see this page before and no one I see mentioned it.