Eternal Khol

Elantrians and AonDor

24 posts in this topic

so its been a while since i read Elantris, but one/many things still has me confused.

what did "Elantrians" look like before Elantris was built. 

did they glow?

was there a Shaod?

were they just regular people who could draw "weak" Aons

 

what exactly does becoming an Elantrian do?

brandon has said "you have to be an Elantrian to draw Aons in the air"  

so does this mean that anyone could draw Aons, but only Elantrians could draw them in the air?

Edited by Eternal Khol
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The Aons as they were after Raoden added the chasm line to his Aons, but before he fixed Elantris itself, is about the level of pre-Elantris Elantrians.

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48 minutes ago, RShara said:

The Aons as they were after Raoden added the chasm line to his Aons, but before he fixed Elantris itself, is about the level of pre-Elantris Elantrians.

 Could they be drawn by literally anyone though. There was no shaod right?

Edited by Eternal Khol
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I would guess that some people were more Connected to Arelon and so would be able to draw them, or draw more power from them, kind of like how Raoden was better at the Aons than Galladon.

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There should have been a Shaod back then too. It seemed like the initiation into AonDor rather than a product of the city

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1 hour ago, Honorless said:

There should have been a Shaod back then too. It seemed like the initiation into AonDor rather than a product of the city

So the city just made them more powerful. They glow and live forever because of the Amplifier that is Elantris.

So did Elantris just make the Effects of the Shaod more Visible?

I wonder if they were immortal before the Elantris?

I bet not, if anything they probably lived longer

Like someone with lots of breath but without the 5th heightening

 

In the book they said that a king found Elantris abandoned, moved in and a few generations later the Shaod started taking them. 

Did it not take the original immigrants because they weren't born in Arelon and had little to no Connection to it unlike their children who would be born with that connection?

Edited by Eternal Khol
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On 06/02/2020 at 4:51 AM, Honorless said:

There should have been a Shaod back then too. It seemed like the initiation into AonDor rather than a product of the city

No.  Otherwise the Shaod would just have continued after the chasm opened. If Elantris were only an amplifier there is no reason why the Shaod produce a wrong result. It would have failed or run at a reduced rate.

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4 hours ago, Oltux72 said:

No.  Otherwise the Shaod would just have continued after the chasm opened. If Elantris were only an amplifier there is no reason why the Shaod produce a wrong result. It would have failed or run at a reduced rate.

The Shaod did happen after the Reod. It just failed to transform the person completely.

Plus, there has to be an initiation system into AonDor. Not everyone could draw Aons.

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2 hours ago, Honorless said:

The Shaod did happen after the Reod. It just failed to transform the person completely.

Hence Elantris the city/Aon is involved in the process.

2 hours ago, Honorless said:

Plus, there has to be an initiation system into AonDor. Not everyone could draw Aons.

How do know that?  It would be the only system on all Sel that needs more than the common Connection to the land.

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23 minutes ago, Oltux72 said:

Hence Elantris the city/Aon is involved in the process.

How do know that?  It would be the only system on all Sel that needs more than the common Connection to the land.

It's not an either-or situation. AonDor is channelled via the massive Aon/city of Elantris into the Elantrians. I'm not saying it doesn't come from Elantris, I'm saying that the Shaod comes from further back, from the source itself and is amplified via Elantris but with the Reod, the AonDor system itself changed and the amplifier wasn't updated, hence broken Shaod.

It's mentioned in the annotations that only Elantrians* could draw Aons

Quote

Brandon Sanderson

Aons are an interesting part of this book–perhaps my favorite of the world elements. If you think about the system I've set up, you'll realize some things. First, the Aons have to be older than the Aonic language. They're based directly off of the land. So, the lines that make up the characters aren't arbitrary. Perhaps the sounds associated with them are, but the meanings–at least in part–are inherent. The scene with Raoden explaining how the Aon for "Wood" includes circles matching the forests in the land of Arelon indicates that there is a relationship between the Aons and their meanings. In addition, each Aon produces a magical effect, which would have influenced its meaning.

The second interesting fact about the Aons is that only Elantrians can draw them. And Elantrians have to come from the lands near Arelon. Teoish people can be taken, but only if they're in Arelon at the time. Genetically, then, the Teos and the Arelenes must be linked–and evidence seems to indicate that the Arelenes lived in the land first, and the Teos crossed the sea to colonize their peninsula.

Only Elantrians can draw Aons in the air, so someone taken by the Shaod must have developed the writing system. That is part of what makes writing a noble art in Arelon–drawing the Aons would have been associated with Elantrians. Most likely, the early Elantrians (who probably didn't even have Elantris back then) would have had to learn the Aons by trial and error, finding what each one did, and associating its meaning and sound with its effect. The language didn't develop, but was instead "discovered."

There are likely Aons that haven't even been found yet.

Elantris Annotations (Feb. 14, 2006)

* as in AonDor users, not necessarily inhabitants of Elantris as the magic existed before Elantris itself was built

Edited by Honorless
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They also mention in the book that the Aeons also make up a sort of map of the land itself, with Elantris itself generally being in the middle. Though that could have been by design of the original builder/s, a monument so large in not only changed the landscape (thus the Aeons as well), but focused their power and making it stronger. Suggesting that the Shaod and Aeons existed before the city.

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2 hours ago, Chunku said:

They also mention in the book that the Aeons also make up a sort of map of the land itself, with Elantris itself generally being in the middle. Though that could have been by design of the original builder/s, a monument so large in not only changed the landscape (thus the Aeons as well), but focused their power and making it stronger. Suggesting that the Shaod and Aeons existed before the city.

The dot in the middle is Lake Alonoe, not Elantris

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On 2/5/2020 at 9:28 PM, RShara said:

The Aons as they were after Raoden added the chasm line to his Aons, but before he fixed Elantris itself, is about the level of pre-Elantris Elantrians.

This seem to be the popular belief but is there any specific evidence to support it?  I find it very hard to believe that they were all stuck in the post-Raod Half-life state prior to the design and completion of the actual city.

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1 minute ago, Quantus said:

This seem to be the popular belief but is there any specific evidence to support it?  I find it very hard to believe that they were all stuck in the post-Raod Half-life state prior to the design and completion of the actual city.

I don't think that there was as dramatic a thing as the Shaod before Elantris was built. Just people who were more or less inclined and able to work with Aons. Elantrians as we know them shouldn't have existed before the huge amplifier that is Elantris was built.

Quote

Brandon Sanderson

Weak Aons

Elantris is like a massive power conduit. It focuses the Dor, strengthening its power (or, rather, the power of the Aons to release it) in Arelon. This far away from Elantris, however, the Aons are about as powerful as they were before Raoden fixed Elantris.

If you consider it, it makes logical sense that the Aons would be tied to Elantris and Arelon, yet would work without them. The Aons had to exist before Elantris–otherwise, the original Elantrians wouldn't have known the shape to make the city. Their study of AonDor taught them a method for amplifying Aon power.

Elantris Annotations (May 12, 2006)

 

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7 minutes ago, RShara said:

I don't think that there was as dramatic a thing as the Shaod before Elantris was built. Just people who were more or less inclined and able to work with Aons. Elantrians as we know them shouldn't have existed before the huge amplifier that is Elantris was built.

 

That's the WOB that makes me doubt it actually.  The Shaod itself isnt based on or tied to any particular Aon (named for Transformation but not requiring a Shao rune anywhere), and he was very particular in the distinction that it enhances Aons rather than the Dor itself.  That makes me think it's supposed to affect the Aon's functions but not the core Elantrian package.

The Truth is I may just be getting too hung up on the us of "original Elantrians" in that WOB; in every other usage Ive seen that is a specific Invested State with lots of specific traits like healing and immortality and weird Spiritwebs and whatnot.  It sounds like the prevailing theory is that prior to the City there weren't actual Elantrians so much as normal Humans that simply had some limited access to Aon magic.

 

 

As a separate but related question:  Elantris is a Giant Rao (Lit "Spirit/Essence" used as amplifier).  Ire is another Elantrian built City is Ire, sooo...Does it serve a similar Purpose?  If Elantris the city is what Created the modern Elantrians as an actual Invested State/Race, does the Ire city offer any similar funnction to all Elantrians? is perhaps Ire the reason they they are all functionally Immortal (Ire=Age/Time)?

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57 minutes ago, Quantus said:

That's the WOB that makes me doubt it actually.  The Shaod itself isnt based on or tied to any particular Aon (named for Transformation but not requiring a Shao rune anywhere), and he was very particular in the distinction that it enhances Aons rather than the Dor itself.  That makes me think it's supposed to affect the Aon's functions but not the core Elantrian package.

The Truth is I may just be getting too hung up on the us of "original Elantrians" in that WOB; in every other usage Ive seen that is a specific Invested State with lots of specific traits like healing and immortality and weird Spiritwebs and whatnot.  It sounds like the prevailing theory is that prior to the City there weren't actual Elantrians so much as normal Humans that simply had some limited access to Aon magic.

 

 

As a separate but related question:  Elantris is a Giant Rao (Lit "Spirit/Essence" used as amplifier).  Ire is another Elantrian built City is Ire, sooo...Does it serve a similar Purpose?  If Elantris the city is what Created the modern Elantrians as an actual Invested State/Race, does the Ire city offer any similar funnction to all Elantrians? is perhaps Ire the reason they they are all functionally Immortal (Ire=Age/Time)?

the IRE is just a fort in the Cognitive realm, not an Aon city

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1 hour ago, Quantus said:

As a separate but related question:  Elantris is a Giant Rao (Lit "Spirit/Essence" used as amplifier).  Ire is another Elantrian built City is Ire, sooo...Does it serve a similar Purpose?  If Elantris the city is what Created the modern Elantrians as an actual Invested State/Race, does the Ire city offer any similar funnction to all Elantrians? is perhaps Ire the reason they they are all functionally Immortal (Ire=Age/Time)?

 

2 minutes ago, Eternal Khol said:

the IRE is just a fort in the Cognitive realm, not an Aon city

 

Ire refers to the group, not the fortress

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Just now, Honorless said:

 

 

Ire refers to the group, not the fortress

i know its a group, but the context in which Quantus used is, he was refering to the fortress they built

 

5 minutes ago, Eternal Khol said:

Ire is another Elantrian built City is Ire, sooo...Does it serve a similar Purpose? 

this is what i was referring to.

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Ah, ok nevermind.  I though Ire was the name of their capital CIty as well as the Group.  Probably conflating with with Silverlight.  

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I have this theory that Elantrians themselves are kind of like Aons

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The fortress of the Ire didn't have an Aon shape configuration, Kelsier would've remarked on the shape otherwise, besides it wouldn't have worked since the fort was located in the space between worlds, bordering Scadrial & Threnody. They were siphoning power from the Dor via pipes though

5 hours ago, Eternal Khol said:

I have this theory that Elantrians themselves are kind of like Aons

they're both thrumming with the power of the Dor behind them is the only parallel that comes to my mind. So what's your theory? 

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45 minutes ago, Honorless said:

The fortress of the Ire didn't have an Aon shape configuration, Kelsier would've remarked on the shape otherwise, besides it wouldn't have worked since the fort was located in the space between worlds, bordering Scadrial & Threnody. They were siphoning power from the Dor via pipes though

they're both thrumming with the power of the Dor behind them is the only parallel that comes to my mind. So what's your theory? 

I dont really have a thought out theory. Its just a gut feeling

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18 minutes ago, Eternal Khol said:

I dont really have a thought out theory. Its just a gut feeling

Eh, okay, but what's it about? 

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8 minutes ago, Honorless said:

Eh, okay, but what's it about? 

Just the shaod and the way the power feeds them

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