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Danthemystic

Lerasium and Feruchemy

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What could a Feruchemist possibly store with Lerasium? It is the metal that can be burned by an Allomancer to become a Mistborn. Could it store Intention or maybe their Spiritweb? 

Are there any theories discussing this?

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4 hours ago, Kingsdaughter613 said:

My theory: sentience.

Interesting. I think that might be it. 

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1 hour ago, Danthemystic said:

What could a Feruchemist possibly store with Lerasium? It is the metal that can be burned by an Allomancer to become a Mistborn. Could it store Intention or maybe their Spiritweb?

F-Nicrosil pretty much already stores the spiritweb, insofar as its known application lets you store the bit of it that grants the user access to various magic systems and (via a process we don't understand yet involving the creation of an unsealed metalmind) allows anyone else the means to temporarily have that same power as though it were their own spiritweb.

One idea that's frequently tossed around is that since atium can steal anything in hemalurgy, lerasium can store anything in feruchemy as a sort of parallel. One thing to keep in mind is that lerasium doesn't necessarily need to have some awesome use; Brandon has stated that using it for hemalurgy would be kind of like using a nuclear weapon as a paperweight (as in 'you can do it but it's completely wasted on that') so it's entirely possible the same is true of its feruchemical application.

Edited by Weltall
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I suppose Universal Metalminds too. A beautiful way to have all the feruchemical attributes stored in a single metalmind. Imagine Compounding this.

Edited by Raphaborn
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9 hours ago, Raphaborn said:

I suppose Universal Metalminds too. A beautiful way to have all the feruchemical attributes stored in a single metalmind. Imagine Compounding this.

That’s just never made sense to me though. That’s the ability you’d expect from the God metal of that system; in this case that would probably be the effect of the alloy.

I think we need to look at what Atium already does within that system, and what the two do within their own. Because that’s where the parallels would be.

Atium does temporal/Spiritual things in the two systems that are not its own. Within it’s own it has been indicated to be capable of stealing anything. (WoB is unclear, as he says it can steal both every power and, in the next sentence, that it can replace any other spike.) Within Feruchemy, it stores Youth, and we know age is connected to the spiritual realm. Within Allomancy, it allows you to see into the Spiritual realm, which allows you to see into the future. It also expands your mind, allowing you to react to that knowledge.

Lerasium manipulates the Spiritweb within it’s own system; the working theory is that it Connects one to a Shard. What Lerasium does in Hemalurgy is very unclear; I think it is believed to steal individual attributes. Powerful, but also highly limited. I also suspect that Lerasium spikes would deteriorate quickly as the power would be coming from the spike, not Ruin.

Sentience on Scadrial exists due to extra Preservation in the people. I actually think that this is what Lerasium steals, which manifests as a strengthening of all attributes. (Like getting extra Breath on Nalthis.) This makes Lerasium very powerful on Scadrial, but limited off of it, similar to other metals that primarily steal things that don’t exist off Scadrial. Like other metals, it can steal more than one thing though, likely individual attributes.

So based on this, I think it stores that part of Scadrians. It stores their extra Preservation. When tapped, the Feruchemist has all their attributes strengthened, in a manner similar to having excess Breath on Nalthis. At extreme levels, they would temporarily stop aging. When storing, the Feruchemist would be very similar to a Drab.

Parallels: Each Metal is Supreme in its own system with a major Spiritual effect. (Atium, assuming ‘steals everything’, can edit the Spiritweb in many different ways. Lerasium rewrites the Spiritweb as it’s base effect.)

Both are extremely powerful but highly limited in the other’s system, with the fueling power coming from the metal. (Atium lets you see the Spiritual realm and let’s you use that information; Lerasium would steal the extra Preservation, but be a lesser Atium (stealing only physical/mental attributes) elsewhere.)

Within Feruchemy, both store something unusual and unique and limited. Due to Preservation being the source of Scadrian Sentience, I think it makes sense that that’s what it stores.

Feruchemy being, essentially, an alloy of Ruin and Preservation, a universal metalmind would be a Lerasium/Atium alloy.

It would not be Harmonium; Harmony is not truly an alloy of the two, as they have merged/are merging on a more fundamental level. As time goes on, and the two Shards continue to merge, I think he should get his own system, just as he has his own metal. He may already have this, considering what we’ve seen Harmonium do. (Note that this hypothetical system is external to the people. Also note that, right now, Saze would drop Harmony.)

Edited by Kingsdaughter613
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10 hours ago, Raphaborn said:

I suppose Universal Metalminds too. A beautiful way to have all the feruchemical attributes stored in a single metalmind. Imagine Compounding this.

So THAAAAT's how you make a Feruchemist!   Get Lerasium, get a Feruchemist to store a little of everything, Burn it for the permanent Spiritweb Reconfiguration with the Feruchemical frequency.

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1 hour ago, Kingsdaughter613 said:

That’s just never made sense to me though. That’s the ability you’d expect from the God metal of that system; in this case that would probably be the effect of the alloy.

I think we need to look at what Atium already does within that system, and what the two do within their own. Because that’s where the parallels would be.

Atium does temporal/Spiritual things in the two systems that are not its own. Within it’s own it has been indicated to be capable of stealing anything. (WoB is unclear, as he says it can steal both every power and, in the next sentence, that it can replace any other spike.) Within Feruchemy, it stores Youth, and we know age is connected to the spiritual realm. Within Allomancy, it allows you to see into the Spiritual realm, which allows you to see into the future. It also expands your mind, allowing you to react to that knowledge.

Lerasium manipulates the Spiritweb within it’s own system; the working theory is that it Connects one to a Shard. What Lerasium does in Hemalurgy is very unclear; I think it is believed to steal individual attributes. Powerful, but also highly limited. I also suspect that Lerasium spikes would deteriorate quickly as the power would be coming from the spike, not Ruin.

Sentience on Scadrial exists due to extra Preservation in the people. I actually think that this is what Lerasium steals, which manifests as a strengthening of all attributes. (Like getting extra Breath on Nalthis.) This makes Lerasium very powerful on Scadrial, but limited off of it, similar to other metals that primarily steal things that don’t exist off Scadrial. Like other metals, it can steal more than one thing though, likely individual attributes.

So based on this, I think it stores that part of Scadrians. It stores their extra Preservation. When tapped, the Feruchemist has all their attributes strengthened, in a manner similar to having excess Breath on Nalthis. At extreme levels, they would temporarily stop aging. When storing, the Feruchemist would be very similar to a Drab.

Parallels: Each Metal is Supreme in its own system with a major Spiritual effect. (Atium, assuming ‘steals everything’, can edit the Spiritweb in many different ways. Lerasium rewrites the Spiritweb as it’s base effect.)

Both are extremely powerful but highly limited in the other’s system, with the fueling power coming from the metal. (Atium lets you see the Spiritual realm and let’s you use that information; Lerasium would steal the extra Preservation, but be a lesser Atium (stealing only physical/mental attributes) elsewhere.)

Within Feruchemy, both store something unusual and unique and limited. Due to Preservation being the source of Scadrian Sentience, I think it makes sense that that’s what it stores.

Feruchemy being, essentially, an alloy of Ruin and Preservation, a universal metalmind would be a Lerasium/Atium alloy.

It would not be Harmonium; Harmony is not truly an alloy of the two, as they have merged/are merging on a more fundamental level. As time goes on, and the two Shards continue to merge, I think he should get his own system, just as he has his own metal. He may already have this, considering what we’ve seen Harmonium do. (Note that this hypothetical system is external to the people. Also note that, right now, Saze would drop Harmony.)

Feruchemy powers do not need to be related to the Allomantic power. Ferucchemy is always Internal and even the quadrants have a different name (Temporal are Hybrid, Enhancements are Spiritual).
Being a Universal Metalmind makes sense precisely because of the scope that the Allomantic and Hemalurgical powers have.

Using Atium for comparison doesn't make a lot of sense because of how weak it is when thinking about how invested Lerasium is.

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7 hours ago, Raphaborn said:

Feruchemy powers do not need to be related to the Allomantic power. Ferucchemy is always Internal and even the quadrants have a different name (Temporal are Hybrid, Enhancements are Spiritual).
Being a Universal Metalmind makes sense precisely because of the scope that the Allomantic and Hemalurgical powers have.

Using Atium for comparison doesn't make a lot of sense because of how weak it is when thinking about how invested Lerasium is.

Except that there is no reason to think one God Metal is more invested than the other. If anything Atium should be more invested, considering how much of Ruin’s power is trapped within it. 
 

 

Chaos (paraphrased)

Why is there such an imbalance between the amount of atium and the amount of lerasium in the world? Also, why are atium and lerasium very imbalanced in Allomantic power (Lerasium is far more useful than atium, really)?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

There isn't. Leras is just spread out further. He is in the mists, in the Well, and in the lerasium. Ruin's power however is condensed strictly in atium.

No, the powers don’t need to be related. But how they work within magic systems can give us a hint. Lerasium should not be dominant within Feruchemy because it is not the God Metal of Feruchemy. Feruchemy is of both shards; the universal metalmind should therefore be of both as well.
 

Sentience on Scadrial is caused by Preservation; it makes sense to me that Preservation’s Metal can steal/store it.

But we may be getting some real answers soonish...

SquishyMouth

Godmetal alloys in Era 1 feel a bit like an unfulfilled promise, can you tell us about the attribute stored in a metalmind made out of any atium/lerasium alloy?

Brandon Sanderson

No, not yet. (This is something I intended to get to in Era 3, and am saving for it.)

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1 hour ago, Steel Inquisitive said:

@Kingsdaughter613 wow! That's the most likely theory on F-Lerasium that I've ever read:-)

It makes a lot of sense on so many levels.

Thanks! I’m glad you like it!

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I like Kingsdaughter's but I am going to put in another maybe it stores heritage?

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1 minute ago, Karger said:

I like Kingsdaughter's but I am going to put in another maybe it stores heritage?

Interesting. How exactly would that work? Ie. What is heritage in this context, what would tapping do, what do you lose (temporarily) when storing, etc.

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4 minutes ago, Kingsdaughter613 said:

Interesting. How exactly would that work? Ie. What is heritage in this context, what would tapping do, what do you lose (temporarily) when storing, etc.

Any bloodline based magic systems, the cultural part of your identity, and your connection to any cultural homeland or language.

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Just now, Karger said:

Any bloodline based magic systems, the cultural part of your identity, and your connection to any cultural homeland or language.

So what happens to you when you store it? And what happens if you tap it? It seems like the effects would be very interesting on someone from Sel...

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3 minutes ago, Karger said:

Any bloodline based magic systems, the cultural part of your identity, and your connection to any cultural homeland or language.

Isn't that basically Connection Ferrings (duralumin)?

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3 minutes ago, Kingsdaughter613 said:

So what happens to you when you store it? And what happens if you tap it? It seems like the effects would be very interesting on someone from Sel...

Very.  You become less a part of that culture and more a part depending.

1 minute ago, Honorless said:

Isn't that basically Connection Ferrings (duralumin)?

Tweeked a bit. You could say the same for several other Ferring abilities though.  I personally put it more in line with your identity ferrings()

Edited by Karger
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Just now, Karger said:

Very.  You become less a part of that culture and more a part depending.

Could you give an example? I’m having a hard time visualizing it for some reason.

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4 minutes ago, Kingsdaughter613 said:

Could you give an example? I’m having a hard time visualizing it for some reason.

Look at an example of a subculture that is carried on through family.  I think modern Jews are the most obvious example.  Although African Americains, many other immigrant communities in the US and around the world work just as well. 

Just now, Kingsdaughter613 said:

North Scadrian Survivorist Twinborn. Allomantic pewter and Feruchemical bronze. No real Terris connection. Grew up in one of the outer cities, now lives in Elendel. Works as an accountant in a middle sized construction firm.

OK.  When storing.  The things that he learned in his family and as part of a historic comunity go away.  He becomes less a decedent or the originators and more equivalent to the spiritual ideal of a black slate.  If he got his religion from his parents that goes away.  His twinborn abilities go away.  Attitudes and beliefs are weakened.  When he taps all of that strengthens markedly.

Edited by Karger
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Just now, Karger said:

Give me an example of a subculture.

North Scadrian Survivorist Twinborn. Allomantic pewter and Feruchemical bronze. No real Terris connection. Grew up in one of the outer cities, now lives in Elendel. Works as an accountant in a middle sized construction firm.

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My instinct is that Ettmetal would be the universal Metalmind, if you somehow managed to find a way around the whole 'water makes it explode' issue with that, and that Lerasium should do something more specific. 

And my personal guess of what it would store is 'Intent', because that's a spiritual/cognition property that gets thrown around a lot that none of the other metals cover. Maybe it would let you do stuff like remotely activate other magical abilities you might have.

...Which actually sounds a lot like the Allomancy grenade, now that I say that. Maybe I have this backwards, and Lerasium is universal while Ettmetal stores Intent?

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