PrinceGenocide

Are there any atium ferrings or mistings ?

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So are there any seers left or did Harmony cut them off at the catachendre ?

What about ferrings ? Are there any alive who could potentially store youthfulness ?

P.S : What would the name of these ferrings be in local parlence ?

Aetas , senex , ??

P.p.s : what about Lerasium ferrings ?

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Most likely yes, since those bloodlines were already established. However, if is confirmed that Atium is not longer being created since Ati died, so most of them will never have an opportunity to learn they had powers.  This would be a modern equivalent of the various Mistings/Ferrings of unknown metals in Era 1, or any Duralumin Gnat: they could have had power (and are still targets of Hemalurgy, I suppose) but they cant really do anything useful with it.

The Atium Mistings are called Seer's, while Atium Ferrings and Malatium users have not been given canon names. We also have no canon names for any uses/alloys of Lerasium, though since it's a permanent effect and not a lasting one that needs more Lerasium, the whole name idea may not apply.

We have no confirmed Idea what Lerasium might do for Feruchemy, though the most common theory I see is that it would store any Feruchemical Trait the way Atium can substitute for Any metal in Hemalurgy.  

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Atium was switched with another temporal metal which was difficult to access/process, to keep the total count of metals to 16

Quote

Chaos2651

Hemalurgically, atium steals Allomantic Temporal Powers. But, that seems unlikely, since atium is a god metal. It wouldn't fit in with the rest of the magic system. Did Preservation, in addition to switching Cadmium and Bendalloy for Atium and Malatium, also switch atium's Feruchemical and Hemalurgic powers with Cadmium? Because it seems to me there's not a lot of atium Marsh can use to live for hundreds of years into the next Mistborn trilogy.

Brandon Sanderson

Preservation wanted Atium and Malatium to be of use to the people, as he recognized that it would be a very powerful tool—and that using it up could help defeat Ruin. But he also recognized that sixteen was a mythological important number, and felt it would make the best sign for his followers. So he took out the most unlikely (difficult to make and use) metals for his sign to his followers. But that doesn't have much to do with Hemalurgy's use here.

Remember that the tables—and the ars Arcanum—are 'in world' creations. (Or, at least, in-universe.) The knowledge represented in them is as people understand it, and can always have flaws. That was the case with having atium on the table in the first place, and that was the case with people (specifically the Inquisitors) trying to figure out what atium did Hemalurgically.

Their experiments (very expensive ones) are what determined that atium (which they thought was just one of the sixteen metals) granted the Allomantic Temporal powers. What they didn't realize is that atium (used correctly) could steal ANY of the powers. Think of it as a wild card. With the right knowledge, you could use it to mimic any other spike. It works far better than other spikes as well.

As for Marsh, he's got a whole bag of atium (taken off of the Kandra who was going to try to sell it.) So he's all right for quite a while. A small bead used right can reverse age someone back to their childhood.

But this was a little beyond their magical understanding at the time.

Barnes and Noble Book Club Q&A (July 8, 2009)

Which I take to mean that Atium was only usable by full Mistborn (and Feruchemists) while the presence of Atium Mistings was due to Preservation's fiddling.

That being said, I do agree that the sDNA from Atium Mistings (Seers), should still allow their descendants to burn the metal if they somehow gain access to it. Atium is no longer being produced post-Catacendre, neither is Lerasium.

Edited by Honorless
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I think that it is interesting that the second era is when the Atium should be reappearing in the Pits...

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30 minutes ago, GoWibble said:

I think that it is interesting that the second era is when the Atium should be reappearing in the Pits...

What do you mean?  

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14 minutes ago, Quantus said:

What do you mean?  

Kelsier destroyed the pits, and thought that it would take about 300 years for them to regrow.

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2 hours ago, Llstml said:

Kelsier destroyed the pits, and thought that it would take about 300 years for them to regrow.

Would have done - except that Ruin no longer exists as a Shard, and Harmony doesn't form atium, He forms ettmetal ("harmonium").

I mean, Harmony could form "atium" (beads of condensed pure Ruin) if he wanted to, but it'd have to be an active, conscious decision on his part, which wasn't true of the natural and passive forming of atium beads at the Pits in the time of the Final Empire. That was more an aspect of the bit of Ruin's power that Preservation Splintered away in his little ambush when he sprung the Well of Ascension trap on Ruin. He made it part of the Allomantic table to be able to burn it (Allomancy being "his power", derived of Preservation), which meant he had to make it into something that could be burned, yet not return to Ruin proper when it was (instead, going to some other reservoir that formed the beads within the geodes).

Since the Well predated the Final Empire by at least one cycle of the Well's filling, that means those geodes used to form somewhere else, that Rashek then rearranged into the Pits of Hathsin when he remade the world.

Then again, we don't know how ettmetal comes about. We do have WoBs confirming that it is "harmonium", but not if it naturally occurs in physical form the way that atium did, or if Harmony is intentionally making an Investiture dump somewhere for it. It would be pretty unfair if it were only formed in the Southern Hemisphere, unless that was to make up for the fact that the Northern Hemisphere has the lerasium-descended Metalborn descendants of the Final Empire (to start with - until they begin to admix).

Edited by robardin
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6 hours ago, Honorless said:

That being said, I do agree that the sDNA from Atium Mistings (Seers), should still allow their descendants to burn the metal if they somehow gain access to it. Atium is no longer being produced post-Catacendre, neither is Lerasium.

But thata not how the sDNA works with allomancy. Even if both your parents were pewterarms you'd be just as likely to be born a rioter as a pewterarm. The lineage increases the base chance of having allomancy but not the specific type. That being said I do not think seers still exist.

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2 hours ago, Elsecaller_17.5 said:

That being said I do not think seers still exist.

Technically, there is one seer. Demoux is still alive 300 years later because he joined the Seventeenth Shard.

What's interesting is that he is currently in a relationship with with fellow Seventeenth Sharder, Aslydin, who is a Terriswoman. There is a slim but present possibility that they could give birth to an Atium Ferring or Full Feruchemist if they had a child.

There is also the possibility that Harmony couldn't or didn't remove the Seer potential from people who were already Seers, meaning that descendants of Seers could become Seers. However, I find this unlikely.

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3 hours ago, Elsecaller_17.5 said:

But thata not how the sDNA works with allomancy. Even if both your parents were pewterarms you'd be just as likely to be born a rioter as a pewterarm. The lineage increases the base chance of having allomancy but not the specific type. That being said I do not think seers still exist.

That's true, the Misting sDNA is randomized but I meant that it's possible for Seers to still be born. It's not like only the people born during the end of the Final Empire could become Seers, once their Spiritweb was altered by Preservation to be able to burn Atium, the potential for other people to be born with the same capability should remain. The 16 metals thing was imposed by Preservation as a clue, there isn't an actual hard limit of only 16 metals being usable for the Metallic Arts, albeit there is a hard limit but it has less to do with the number itself and more to do with the fact that Preservation coded 16 metals to give power. The Cadmium or Bendalloy and Atium switch doesn't mean that there can't be any Seers post-Catacendre but the lack of Atium production means they'll probably never know what they are

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Quote

otomo (paraphrased)

I asked to confirm whether after Sazed's Ascension if there were any more atium or malatium Mistings.

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

There are no more, in that way...

otomo (paraphrased)

In that way, huh?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

*ominous look*

Steelheart San Francisco signing (Oct. 11, 2013)
Quote

wicktacular

At the end of the first Mistborn trilogy it's really significant that 1/16th of the soldiers who got really sick are now atium Mistings.

Brandon Sanderson

Yes.

wicktacular

So were there-- were 1/16th of the rest of them just *inaudible* just not significant?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes. Sixteen that he-- when Preservation set that all up. He, number one, was not all there. But he was trying to create sixteen as a symbol to say, "Hey, catch this. I've given you a clue-- uh-- help." And so it was devised specifically for that. "*inaudible* Something's going on here."

wicktacular

But we know that there's more than sixteen metals. Wh--

Brandon Sanderson

No, no, they would have been Mistings of other types as well.

wicktacular

Did he bump one of the other types then to make it sixteen?

Brandon Sanderson

Yeah.

Brandon Sanderson

Chromium.

wicktacular

Okay. Do you have in your head *inaudible*?

wicktacular

Chromium?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes, that's right. It would probably have been one of the metals that was difficult to get at that level of technology. It would have been chromium - chromium would be hard gather at that time. Actually, no, it would have been aluminum. *about a minute later, while signing someone else's book* Hold on, there's a caveat to that last answer. Let me finish signing this and expand on that. *pause* So, it would still have been aluminum, but not for the reason your thinking. It would have been aluminum, but there's an asterisk next to that answer.

wicktacular

Okay. Interesting.

Brandon Sanderson

Hard to get chromium.

wicktacular

I've been thinking about--

Brandon Sanderson

Oh no! He bumped aluminum. Yeah, he bumped aluminum. Sorry I had to-- I changed my mind.

wicktacular

Oh!

Brandon Sanderson

*a moment later*

Okay, Chad? I have a <qualification> for you. I'll do this and then we'll...

*a moment later*

So...

wicktacular

On the sixteen or the *inaudible*...

Brandon Sanderson

The sixteen. So the answer is "yes," but it's not something-- it's not what you're thinking it is. 

wicktacular

Okay.

Brandon Sanderson

Alright, there's an asterisk on it, okay? There's an asterisk on it, it's not what you're thinking. Uh, you're making-- you're making assumptions. 

Arcanum Unbounded Hoboken signing (Dec. 3, 2016)

So the way I read these is that Preservation changed people's spiritwebs so that instead of aluminum Mistings, they're atium Mistings. And that when Sazed Ascended, he changed spiritwebs back so that aluminum Mistings are born, and atium ones aren't.

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4 minutes ago, RShara said:

So the way I read these is that Preservation changed people's spiritwebs so that instead of aluminum Mistings, they're atium Mistings. And that when Sazed Ascended, he changed spiritwebs back so that aluminum Mistings are born, and atium ones aren't.

Well, Aluminum and Duralumin are the most useless metals for this technological level (and even in Era 2 this is still true).

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15 hours ago, Quantus said:

Most likely yes, since those bloodlines were already established. However, if is confirmed that Atium is not longer being created since Ati died, so most of them will never have an opportunity to learn they had powers.  This would be a modern equivalent of the various Mistings/Ferrings of unknown metals in Era 1, or any Duralumin Gnat: they could have had power (and are still targets of Hemalurgy, I suppose) but they cant really do anything useful with it.

The Atium Mistings are called Seer's, while Atium Ferrings and Malatium users have not been given canon names. We also have no canon names for any uses/alloys of Lerasium, though since it's a permanent effect and not a lasting one that needs more Lerasium, the whole name idea may not apply.

We have no confirmed Idea what Lerasium might do for Feruchemy, though the most common theory I see is that it would store any Feruchemical Trait the way Atium can substitute for Any metal in Hemalurgy.  

I’m really confused by this as a lerasium misting would become a mistborn the first time he used its ability   . Also anyone can burn Lerasium , so in a sense all humans on Scadrial are Lerasium listings by default ! Right? 

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Okay, so Aluminium Mistings were the ones replaced during that time since this WoB is both newer & far more precise in it's wording, unless Brandon changes his mind again

Lerasium Misting isn't really a thing, judging by it granting Allomancy only being a side-effect & it also being able to grant other magics if combined with other godmetals, what Lerasium does is more Cosmere wide then just being limited to specific functions in the Metallic Arts. The only function left to find with this in mind is Feruchemy. Burning grants/enhances Connection to Preservation, it allows one to steal all abilities but what does it store? 

Edited by Honorless
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8 hours ago, SzethIsBadAsHell said:

I’m really confused by this as a lerasium misting would become a mistborn the first time he used its ability   . Also anyone can burn Lerasium , so in a sense all humans on Scadrial are Lerasium listings by default ! Right? 

All sentient People Everywhere, you dont even have to be from Scadrial to burn Lerasium, it does all the work for you.  And yes, Lerasium Mistings arent a thing simply because lerasium doesnt really operate like any other Allomancy. Alloys just create Mistings rather than Mistborn.  

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33 minutes ago, Quantus said:

All sentient People Everywhere, you dont even have to be from Scadrial to burn Lerasium, it does all the work for you.  And yes, Lerasium Mistings arent a thing simply because lerasium doesnt really operate like any other Allomancy. Alloys just create Mistings rather than Mistborn.  

Just remembering that creating Misting are side effects, not the main thing. Lerasium produces several expanded Physical and Enhacements effects.

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17 minutes ago, Raphaborn said:

Just remembering that creating Misting are side effects, not the main thing. Lerasium produces several expanded Physical and Enhacements effects.

Creating Mistborn and Mistings is indeed a Side effect, but to my knowledge there has been no evidence that it offers other, non-allomantic benefits (outside of the foreign Godmetal Alloy case).  Can you point me to an example where buring Lerasium or Being Mistborn offers non-allomantic effects?

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Just now, Quantus said:

Creating Mistborn and Mistings is indeed a Side effect, but to my knowledge there has been no evidence that it offers other, non-allomantic benefits (outside of the foreign Godmetal Alloy case).  Can you point me to an example where buring Lerasium or Being Mistborn offers non-allomantic effects?

That is what is in the table. The person who wrote it probably had access to more knowledge than shown so far. But what those effects would be is complicated. Lerasium only saw Elend using it, and he was half-dead.

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6 minutes ago, Raphaborn said:

That is what is in the table. The person who wrote it probably had access to more knowledge than shown so far. But what those effects would be is complicated. Lerasium only saw Elend using it, and he was half-dead.

You know what, I looked close enough to to actual table's phrasing catch that distinction.  Everywhere else it was just said to make the accosted Misting, but the table does indeed imply that creating Mistings is not the only effect a Lerasium alloy might have.  Which my extension means that Lerasium alloyed with non-allomantic metals will sometimes still have an effect.

 

Soooo....Who else desperately wants to know what a Lerasiumn/Silver alloy would do?

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47 minutes ago, Quantus said:

You know what, I looked close enough to to actual table's phrasing catch that distinction.  Everywhere else it was just said to make the accosted Misting, but the table does indeed imply that creating Mistings is not the only effect a Lerasium alloy might have.  Which my extension means that Lerasium alloyed with non-allomantic metals will sometimes still have an effect.

 

Soooo....Who else desperately wants to know what a Lerasiumn/Silver alloy would do?

Easy, purges foreign Investiture from you, just like what regular Silver does to other stuff (and turns black and corroded from sponging up all of said foreign Investiture) :P

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1 hour ago, Halyo_Alex said:

Easy, purges foreign Investiture from you, just like what regular Silver does to other stuff (and turns black and corroded from sponging up all of said foreign Investiture) :P

I would expect something more permanent, but can't come up with anything

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4 hours ago, Quantus said:

I would expect something more permanent, but can't come up with anything

Immunizes you to foreign Investiture? Preventing you from ever entering a state that would cause red to appear (like a Hemalurgic chimera or one of the set's faceless immortals)

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14 hours ago, Quantus said:

You know what, I looked close enough to to actual table's phrasing catch that distinction.  Everywhere else it was just said to make the accosted Misting, but the table does indeed imply that creating Mistings is not the only effect a Lerasium alloy might have.  Which my extension means that Lerasium alloyed with non-allomantic metals will sometimes still have an effect.

 

Soooo....Who else desperately wants to know what a Lerasiumn/Silver alloy would do?

Hardly, Khriss theorizes in Ars Arcanum that there are only 16. And there is also what Sanderson said:

Questioner

For the space Mistborn are we going to have more elements?

Brandon Sanderson

The base 16 are basically it. But the interactions between them and things. And there is one more metal, there is harmonium, so you will hear about that later on.

Salt Lake City Comic-Con 2014 (Sept. 4, 2014)
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7 hours ago, Raphaborn said:

Hardly, Khriss theorizes in Ars Arcanum that there are only 16. And there is also what Sanderson said:

Questioner

For the space Mistborn are we going to have more elements?

Brandon Sanderson

The base 16 are basically it. But the interactions between them and things. And there is one more metal, there is harmonium, so you will hear about that later on.

Salt Lake City Comic-Con 2014 (Sept. 4, 2014)

True, but Godmetals and their Alloys have always been considered outside the "base' 16.  Im thinking more oddballs like Malatium, but with lerasium.  And if we assume that entry in the chart is correct, then there basically has to be more viable lerasium alloys, since it has more effects than making mistings, and we know that;s what alloys of the base metals will do.

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2 hours ago, Quantus said:

True, but Godmetals and their Alloys have always been considered outside the "base' 16.  Im thinking more oddballs like Malatium, but with lerasium.  And if we assume that entry in the chart is correct, then there basically has to be more viable lerasium alloys, since it has more effects than making mistings, and we know that;s what alloys of the base metals will do.

Not necessarily. We know that the alloys of base metals will also make a person a Misting, but we have no idea of the main effect of the alloy. Only it will be of the Physical and Enhacement type.

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