Chalke219 Posted February 3, 2020 Report Share Posted February 3, 2020 So we know there are three shards present on Roshar (I'm thinking as a world here not the system - I know odium is on Braize so bear with... ) We know there will be 3 bondsmiths One bonds the Stormfather and is connected to Honour One will bond the Nightwatcher if my understanding is correct which is tied to Cultivation The other is the sibling which is connected, we assume, with Urithuru - I don't imagine the sibling would be connected to Odium so is there another shard on Roshar that we are unaware of? The sibling is in hiding and Brandon has mentioned a Shard that is actively trying to hide - could this be a connection or is my understanding way off? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+asmodeus Posted February 3, 2020 Report Share Posted February 3, 2020 (edited) That's valid reasoning, but there are only three Shards of any relevance on all three planets of Roshar the System, and they are Honor, Cultivation and Odium. This includes the planets of Roshar, Ashyn, and to an extent, even Braize. Spoiler Questioner The line about "three of sixteen [ruled] and now the Broken One reigns" - did Odium follow three other Shards to Roshar or is he the third Shard? Brandon Sanderson Odium is the third Shard on Roshar. Footnote: The questioner is referring to the epigraph of Chapter 11 of The Way of Kings: "Three of sixteen ruled, but now the Broken One reigns."Words of Radiance Washington, DC signing (March 20, 2014) Spoiler Zas So the number of Shards that have been on Roshar is three, correct? Brandon Sanderson Correct. Zas People have been thrown by you saying that Odium is not native to Roshar. Brandon Sanderson Odium is not native... see that's the thing. Are any of them native? So if you dig the deeper question, are any of them native, ehhh, none of them are native to the planets that you've seen so far. What I probably should've said to be more precise is that Honor and Cultivation were there long before Odium showed up. Orem signing (Sept. 22, 2012) For the three Bondsmith spren, one of the common theories is that the Sibling is of both Honor and Cultivation, as opposed to the Stormfather who is largely of Honor and the Nightwatcher who is largely of Cultivation. Edited February 3, 2020 by asmodeus 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chalke219 Posted February 3, 2020 Author Report Share Posted February 3, 2020 Thay would make sense, in a similar way that Feruchemy is of both Preservation and Ruin I was mostly going from this which gives a totally different tone to the WoB you quoted! "Yfriedd (paraphrased) Given the Sibling, and the Death Rattle about how "Three of sixteen ruled, but now the Broken One reigns", was there a third Shard on Roshar with Honor and Cultivation prior to Odium's arrival? Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased) RAFO. Good question." 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KandraAllomancer Posted February 3, 2020 Report Share Posted February 3, 2020 Odium definitely is the third Shard on Roshar, but we have no 100% explicit confirmation that he has always been. Current WoBs have crazy amount of wiggle room, to be honest. As @asmodeus pointed out, the Sibling certainly seems to be of both Cultivation and Honor, but I'm not sure Scadrial magic provides a good analogy in this case. We have pure Cultivation magic (Old Magic) and two Honor+Cultivation magic systems (Surgebinding and fabrials) on Roshar. Something is off here. Then, there are some weird things about Ashyn: there used to be Surgebinding there, as well as the first known fabrials. This suggests some Shardic presence, which, most likely, was of both Cultivation and Honor. I used to believe that it might have been a Shardic child, but now I'm leaning more toward it being an Avatar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zapata Posted February 4, 2020 Report Share Posted February 4, 2020 2 hours ago, KandraAllomancer said: As @asmodeus pointed out, the Sibling certainly seems to be of both Cultivation and Honor, but I'm not sure Scadrial magic provides a good analogy in this case. We have pure Cultivation magic (Old Magic) and two Honor+Cultivation magic systems (Surgebinding and fabrials) on Roshar. Something is off here. I have always been iffy about calling the Old Magic a magic system. It always seemed like Cultivation (or her representative, the Nightwatcher) directly Investing people, a la the Returned or Harmony healing the Catacendre survivors of physical and genetic conditions. I use this WoB as justification: Quote MiToRo94 Honor has Stormlight and Odium has Voidlight, is there a Cultivationlight? If so, can an Invested person use it as a third magic on Roshar or is a boon/curse the only magic of Cultivation/Nightwatcher? Brandon Sanderson There is more! I'll just say that, the rest is Read And Find Out. You are theorizing in an accurate direction. Read For Pixels 2018 (Sept. 1, 2018) But back to the topic, it makes sense for another Shard to have taken interest in Roshar. The planet was made by Adonalsium, and it filled the planet with quite a lot of ambient Investiture. Now, most of this was keyed to Honor and Cultivation after the Shattering, which makes sense. Cultivation, as in Adonalsium made the planet and changed it to work, and Honor as in the planet has to be kept in a delicate equilibrium considering the entire Julia Set is based on literal crem and the Highstorms. It operates according to boundaries and rules, even more obviously so than an ordinary planet. But surely some of the ambient Investiture was keyed to another Shard. Also, another Shard could have seen a problem with the former lovers settling a planet together. That nebulous "agreement" between the Shards could have potentially agitated a Shard besides Endowment and Odium. So possibly a Shard influenced the planet enough to send the message that they don't like Honor and Cultivation sharing a world, although that is a bit hypocritical. Of course, any other interested Shards would have backed away when Odium showed up. At that point, he had already killed three Shards, and some others probably knew that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renarin Kholin Posted February 4, 2020 Report Share Posted February 4, 2020 (edited) On 2/3/2020 at 6:01 AM, Chalke219 said: Thay would make sense, in a similar way that Feruchemy is of both Preservation and Ruin Spoiler Has Brandon confirmed this? It has always seemed to me that Allomancy was the magic system of both Preservation and Ruin. Feruchemy is the system that preserves an attribute for a future time, and Hemalurgy is quite obviously of Ruin since power is lost while the spike is not in a body. Neither Preservation or Ruin could create Scadrial on their own, their combined power was needed in order to create. Since Allomancy is the magic system that can create power, it seems to me that Allomancy would be the metallic art of both Preservation and Ruin. Back to the main topic of this thread, I think that it is likely that the third sibling is of both Honor and Cultivation, not of Odium. Edited February 6, 2020 by Renarin Kholin Mistborn Spoilers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zapata Posted February 4, 2020 Report Share Posted February 4, 2020 (edited) 11 hours ago, Renarin Kholin said: Has Brandon confirmed this? It has always seemed to me that Allomancy was the magic system of both Preservation and Ruin. Feruchemy is the system that preserves an attribute for a future time, and Hemalurgy is quite obviously of Ruin since power is lost while the spike is not in a body. Neither Preservation or Ruin could create Scadrial on their own, their combined power was needed in order to create. Since Allomancy is the magic system that can create power, it seems to me that Allomancy would be the metallic art of both Preservation and Ruin. Spoiler I used to think that, too, but here's a WoB that goes against it: Quote Questioner Allomancy is of Preservation, correct? Brandon Sanderson Yes... Questioner What are Feruchemy and Hemalurgy of? Brandon Sanderson Hemalurgy is definitely of Ruin. Questioner Is it of pure Ruin? Brandon Sanderson Yes. That's a very Ruin thing. And Feruchemy is more of a blend. Though… there is more philosophy to that and human construct—like the Allomantic table—than I think I’ve made clear before. Shadows of Self Chicago signing (Oct. 12, 2015) Edited February 4, 2020 by Bearer of Agonies Spoilering for Mistborn 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Honorless Posted February 4, 2020 Report Share Posted February 4, 2020 Might want to spoiler Mistborn talk, @Bearer of Agonies, @Renarin Kholin, it's the Stormlight forum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RShara Posted February 4, 2020 Report Share Posted February 4, 2020 Quote Chaos (paraphrased) How many Shards have existed on Roshar? Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased) Three. Ancient 17S Q&A (May 1, 2010) Note the tense on the question. Three Shards have existed on Roshar. Then the one already mentioned, in the present tense Quote Questioner The line about "three of sixteen [ruled] and now the Broken One reigns" - did Odium follow three other Shards to Roshar or is he the third Shard? Brandon Sanderson Odium is the third Shard on Roshar. Footnote: The questioner is referring to the epigraph of Chapter 11 of The Way of Kings: "Three of sixteen ruled, but now the Broken One reigns."Words of Radiance Washington, DC signing (March 20, 2014) Three Shards have existed on Roshar, and Odium is the third Shard. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KandraAllomancer Posted February 4, 2020 Report Share Posted February 4, 2020 22 hours ago, Bearer of Agonies said: But back to the topic, it makes sense for another Shard to have taken interest in Roshar. That possibility cannot be fully excluded at this point, but I don't think that's very likely. Two main reasons: A. If there had been a completely new, unknown Shard on Roshar at some point, we should see some of their spren or Investiture (potentially linked to the Sibling, fabrials or Urithiru). We have seen no evidence of this so far B. Sanderson's Third Law ("Expand on what you have already, before you add something new."). Adding another Shard to an already complicated mix just seems... inelegant, I guess? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renarin Kholin Posted February 6, 2020 Report Share Posted February 6, 2020 On 2/3/2020 at 9:27 PM, Honorless said: Might want to spoiler Mistborn talk, @Bearer of Agonies, @Renarin Kholin, it's the Stormlight forum Sorry, I have done so now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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