Shades Theory

[Eternal Khol]

@Honorlessdid this WoB just confirm that Shades are corrupted investiture? 

i think it did

 

Steeldancer

On Threnody, the Shades, their eyes turn red when they get really mad. Is that the same thing as with the Voidbringers and all the other ones?

Brandon Sanderson

I have a subtheme in the Cosmere of the redness and it's supposed to be intentional.

Steeldancer

So it is the same thing?

Brandon Sanderson

It's the same theme. But I do not mean to imply that it's the same Shard.

Steeldancer

But it's the same effect?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes. I'm doing it intentionally. Red eyes specifically are meant to mean something but I use it a few other ways [the same way?].

Legion Release Party (Sept. 19, 2018)

[Honorless]

1 hour ago, Eternal Khol said:

@Honorlessdid this WoB just confirm that Shades are corrupted investiture? 

i think it did

 

Steeldancer

On Threnody, the Shades, their eyes turn red when they get really mad. Is that the same thing as with the Voidbringers and all the other ones?

Brandon Sanderson

I have a subtheme in the Cosmere of the redness and it's supposed to be intentional.

Steeldancer

So it is the same thing?

Brandon Sanderson

It's the same theme. But I do not mean to imply that it's the same Shard.

Steeldancer

But it's the same effect?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes. I'm doing it intentionally. Red eyes specifically are meant to mean something but I use it a few other ways [the same way?].

Legion Release Party (Sept. 19, 2018)

It.. might just have, huh. Not a foolproof one, admittedly 

Edited February 11, 2020 by Honorless

[Eternal Khol]

35 minutes ago, Honorless said:

It.. might just have, huh. Not a foolproof one, admittedly 

What if the investiture on the planet pre-ambition was of a shard other than Odium of Ambition. 

 

It coulda went like this

1. Investiture is on the planet prior to Ambition or Odiums Arrival.

2. Odium went and attacked Ambition. 

3. Waves of Ambitions power washed over Threnody.

4. Her power corrupted the Investiture already there.

When someone breaks the Simple Rules, it somehow activates Ambitions or the others shards investiture and their eyes turn red.

The question is which Shard are the Simple Rules tied to. Ambition or the shard we dont know

Edited February 11, 2020 by Eternal Khol

[Honorless]

I've always thought that the Simple Rules sound very antithetical to Ambition

Edited February 11, 2020 by Honorless

[Retrac]

Just a small question. What would a shade look like in the cognitive realm? What about spiratal?

[Eternal Khol]

14 hours ago, Honorless said:

I've always thought that the Simple Rules sound very antithetical to Ambition

me too.

 

1 hour ago, Retrac said:

Just a small question. What would a shade look like in the cognitive realm? What about spiratal?

we dont know. 

when someone breaks the Simple Rules they get enraged and seem to become more Corporeal as is breaking the Simple Rules draws them more fully into the Physical realm and out of the CR.

[Retrac]

So what would happen if Nightblood encountered a shade?

 

[Honorless]

On 2/12/2020 at 2:04 AM, Retrac said:

So what would happen if Nightblood encountered a shade?

Shades are Cognitive Shadows, which are composed of Investiture, Nightblood would eat them

[Karger]

On 2/11/2020 at 3:34 PM, Retrac said:

So what would happen if Nightblood encountered a shade?

Nightblood can kill just about anything.  He has killed fused.  I don't think shades are much of a challenge by comparison. 

[+Oltux72]

On 11/02/2020 at 9:30 PM, Eternal Khol said:

me too.

To overcome death itself is pretty ambitious, though. And there is the corruption.

On 11/02/2020 at 9:30 PM, Eternal Khol said:

when someone breaks the Simple Rules they get enraged and seem to become more Corporeal as is breaking the Simple Rules draws them more fully into the Physical realm and out of the CR.

Simply blundering into a Shade will also wither you. They may seem more active. That they are more material is a guess.

[Eternal Khol]

22 minutes ago, Oltux72 said:

To overcome death itself is pretty ambitious, though. And there is the corruption.

Simply blundering into a Shade will also wither you. They may seem more active. That they are more material is a guess.

1)what about all the other CS's that aren't related to Ambition?

2) wasn't talking about withering

Edited March 3, 2020 by Eternal Khol

[+Oltux72]

On 03/03/2020 at 11:42 AM, Eternal Khol said:

1)what about all the other CS's that aren't related to Ambition?

They are rare. Vanishingly rare. There must be millions of Shades on that continent of Threnody alone for people to run into them so often. In other worlds you have maybe a few thousand on a whole planet. Most Shards have made none to single digits of Cognitive Shadows.
That said, all Shards are operating on the same metaphysics. The underlying mechanism is likely to be the same. The only other example which makes CSes regularly can be seen as the ultimate gift.

On 03/03/2020 at 11:42 AM, Eternal Khol said:

2) wasn't talking about withering

Well, they have very little other physical effects.

1. they wither living beings
2. they interact with silver (and is that themselves or the metal acting?)
3. maybe they produce an image. That is even doubtful. The only observers have been living beings. Would a Shade show on a photograph?

They surely get more active and change eye color when the Simple Rules are broken. But where is the physicality? There is just no evidence.

[Honorless]

On 3/27/2020 at 3:41 PM, Oltux72 said:

 

1. maybe they produce an image. That is even doubtful. The only observers have been living beings. Would a Shade show on a photograph?

Normally, if something is visible, that means it interacts with light to some degree. One should be able to photograph them, though they wouldn't get clear pictures, I imagine. That's my two cents on it. 

But Shades are Cognitive entities. Can Cognitive entities be photographed?

Are Shades more Physical than Cognitive compared to other Cognitive Entities? Shades are more ethereal during the day and more 'real' at night, does that mean they are more in the Physical at night?

 

I wonder if spren can be photographed? The parts that visibly stick out into the Physical should be, I think? How about Nahel bond capable spren? Would a Cryptic show up more clearly than a Honorspren because they are more in the Physical? Hmm... 

Edited March 28, 2020 by Dreamer

[+Oltux72]

14 minutes ago, Dreamer said:

Normally, if something is visible, that means it interacts with light to some degree. One should be able to photograph them, though they wouldn't get clear pictures, I imagine. That's my two cents on it.

The problem with that is the shining red eyes. How would you see anything with them? Having a lamp in your eyes usually really prevents vision.
To me that suggests that the image arises in the mind of the observer.

[Eternal Khol]

On 3/27/2020 at 5:38 AM, Oltux72 said:

The problem with that is the shining red eyes. How would you see anything with them? Having a lamp in your eyes usually really prevents vision.
To me that suggests that the image arises in the mind of the observer.

There are other creatures in the cosmere with glowing red eyes that see just fine

Oathbringer spoiler:

Spoiler

Venli says she can make her eyes glow at will.

 

[+Oltux72]

2 hours ago, Eternal Khol said:

There are other creatures in the cosmere with glowing red eyes that see just fine

Oathbringer spoiler:

  Reveal hidden contents

Venli says she can make her eyes glow at will.

 

But is the effect physical? Or is it something in the CR your mind registers as red eyes? Would it show on a photography?

[Eternal Khol]

On 4/13/2020 at 3:44 AM, Oltux72 said:

But is the effect physical? Or is it something in the CR your mind registers as red eyes? Would it show on a photography?

This isn't about shades but corrupted investiture in general but in Oathbringer, Kaladin states that

Spoiler

"Amaram’s red eyes lit the crystals that rimmed his face."

So I think the effect is physical

Edited April 25, 2020 by Eternal Khol